College football is a mess

[leatherneckjacket]

I couldn’t find a copy of the board’s opinion again but this article references the opinion focusing on revenue generation by the basketball team.

Labor board: Dartmouth hoop players are college employees - NH Business Review

The 15 players on the Dartmouth College men’s basketball team fit the definition of employees and have the right to form a union, an official with the National Labor Relations Board ruled Monday. The 25-page ruling is the latest in the thorny legal issue of whether student athletes at colleges...

www.nhbr.com

In the report, the bureaucrat actually states, "I find". Not "The NLRB finds" or even "We find." Telling.

Anyway, there is no specic quote around revenue in the article and the one comment suggests that the team generating revenue for the school was a consideration, but nothing about what the revenue cutoff is between employee and non employee.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Those students that are simply on academic scholarship don’t generate millions in revenue for their schools.

The schools aren't giving scholarships or receiving any income, the AAs are. The athletic associations are separate entities from the university. If this all comes to pass, there will be a true separation between the two entities.

 

[Vespidae]

The schools aren't giving scholarships or receiving any income, the AAs are. The athletic associations are separate entities from the university. If this all comes to pass, there will be a true separation between the two entities.

That depends. At Tennessee, the Athletic Department is part of the school directly ... there is no AA. It's the same at Notre Dame. The schools typically waive out of state tuition fees as a form of support .. at least in Georgia.

 

[forensicbuzz]

That depends. At Tennessee, the Athletic Department is part of the school directly ... there is no AA. It's the same at Notre Dame. The schools typically waive out of state tuition fees as a form of support .. at least in Georgia.

I understand and agree. Northwestern and Vandy are too. But these are the few outliers. I guarantee you if the student athletes are rules to be employees, there will be a separation of the AAs from the schools and those schools that weren’t that way before, will become that way. I just don’t see it happening and the universities taking on that liability. Injuries become grounds for workers comp…complicated.

 

[LT 1967]

Take a look at the attached article Reference Clemson and South Carolina coaches attending a SC Legislative Committe meeting concerning NIL and Student/Athlete payments. This is a committee only approval. I would like to see the details. The article mentions more involvement in NIL selection as well as direct pay by Athletic Departments. To me this would represent a major move by the State of SC if direct pay by the Athletic Departments is actually involved.

I see that the coaches talk more about involvement, evaluation and selection of NIL deals for athletics. However, the author specifically calls out direct pay.

Does anyone have more detailed info?

 

[Techster]

 

[leatherneckjacket]

Which employer, outside the DOD, controls every moment of their employees? I have only had one in my lifetime and that was the United States Marine Corps. The stupidity being bandied about to rationalize why student athletes are employees is mind boggling.

 

[Vespidae]

Which employer, outside the DOD, controls every moment of their employees? I have only had one in my lifetime and that was the United States Marine Corps. The stupidity being bandied about to rationalize why student athletes are employees is mind boggling.

It depends on who you ask.

According to the IRS, student athletes are NOT employees, nor is their grant taxable, as long as it is used for educational support (tuition, fees, books, etc.)

According to the NLRB, student athletes ARE employees because they provide a service subject to various factors. These factors include the extent of control a hiring entity exercises over the worker,
whether the worker is engaged in a distinct occupation or business, and the level of skill required of the worker to provide services. If the NLRB deems a person an employee, they can organize as a union.

One doesn't have to control every minute of the day, only provide broad direction and reduce or eliminate "entrepreneurial activity". I think that as NIL increases in importance, universities can argue that SA's are independent contractors, each pursuing their own self-interest.

 

[GoldZ]

Yea FSU clearly was as good as any SEC team. Beat FSU and FLA. South Carolina was the GT of the SEC vs the ACC. 0-2 vs Clemson and UNC.

Besides FSU did any ACC teams beat any decent SEC teams. Louisville’s loss to Kentucky really hurt the ACC perception. One of those weak SEC East teams beating the ACC#2 team the week before the ACC Championship game. Between that loss and Travis’ injury the ACC Championship game had zero buzz.

uga & OM were better than Clem & UNC. Agree though about L'ville & UK.

 

[iceeater1969]

The schools, networks, and NCAA tried to be greedy and continue to shut the players out of the revenue they were actually producing, and instead rely on 3rd parties to sort it out. The system is stupid and flawed. Imagine NFL/MLB/NBA/NHL players being shut out of the revenues from TV/media deals, ticket sales, and concession and merch sales and solely relying on 3rd parties to pay them. It wouldn’t make sense, and it was dumb of the people in charge of college athletics to pretend like it was a sustainable system.

They probably could’ve came out and paid all players a flat rate and percentage of revenues a long time ago and it would’ve avoided this total mess we’re in now. At least it would’ve delayed the implosion by many more years.

The former gt prez was the president of the ncaa board of governors.

 

[stinger78]

How about make players sign a no compete? You cannot transfer to teams your former team will play prior to your eligibility expiring.

 

[g0lftime]

How about make players sign a no compete? You cannot transfer to teams your former team will play prior to your eligibility expiring.

Implies a contract. May be where we are headed. The NLI is obviously not considered a binding contract. I assume there are swarmers that know the legal status of a student athlete but doesn't appear there are any consequences for leaving a team at any time when on scholarship.

 

[ThatGuy]

How about make players sign a no compete? You cannot transfer to teams your former team will play prior to your eligibility expiring.

I like this. I mean, if they're ultimately employees, or even independent contractors - "professionals," as many of them like Zeek Biggers have taken to describing themselves - that sort of thing could be warranted. (Although non-compete clauses have been shown to be hard to uphold in court, I think a more-specific clause like this could possibly be a different matter).

Alternately, I've seen many people lament that "coaches have had free agency for a while." If we're considering coaches and players apples and apples, then perhaps NIL and school contracts should be for multiple years - and there should be a buyout clause for players' contracts with the school or the NIL deals they sign.

If you want to play like a pro, you should be prepared to run your business like a professional.

(Of course, all this is wishful thinking - it will likely never happen. But is fun to think of.)

 

[TooTall]

How about make players sign a no compete? You cannot transfer to teams your former team will play prior to your eligibility expiring.

Hey now...thats something and employer would offer an employee on the basis of hiring. Good thing they are Student-Athletes and not emplo.......uh oh

 

[CEB]

This was a false alarm for now but sadly due to the recent court injunctions, I do not think there are any rules about tampering...someone could literally walk up to him tomorrow on campus and hand him a plane ticket and a large check for as soon as the portal reopens. Seems like that happened this time last year with Akelo Stone

 

[stinger78]

Hey now...thats something and employer would offer an employee on the basis of hiring. Good thing they are Student-Athletes and not emplo.......uh oh

Contractors sign them too.

 

[billga99]

Implies a contract. May be where we are headed. The NLI is obviously not considered a binding contract. I assume there are swarmers that know the legal status of a student athlete but doesn't appear there are any consequences for leaving a team at any time when on scholarship.

With Dartmouth BB team trying to unionize, there might be a contract in the future between athletes and the universities. Obviously, Ivy League is a much different world than other athletic programs. But it does potentially allow a little more control over transfers if this gets momentum moving forward.

 

[stinger78]

Implies a contract. May be where we are headed. The NLI is obviously not considered a binding contract. I assume there are swarmers that know the legal status of a student athlete but doesn't appear there are any consequences for leaving a team at any time when on scholarship.

I don’t see how we’re not there already. Surely the scholarship they signed came with contractual provisions..

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

Sign a contract. Pay taxes, social security, and get audited by the IRS. If they want to get paid, that’s the only fair way.

 

[slugboy]

Contractors sign them too.

1. if they’re contractors, they aren’t amateurs.
2. The players don’t have employment contracts. They have scholarships. It’s not the same
3. The NIL contracts are not with the AA or the school.
4. If you have a contract, you don’t need a non-compete. Have a four year exclusive contract and pay for the four years. If they leave after the term of the contract, they can sell their services wherever
5. it can’t be overly broad, and if a court views it as “something for nothing” it might be invalidated anyway.

I don’t see how we’re not there already. Surely the scholarship they signed came with contractual provisions..

This is what the Alston case was about. The agreements with the athletes were ruled unfair restraints of trade.

Trying to accomplish the same thing with the same benefits with a different piece piece of paper will probably get the same results