Coaches and coaching decisions

[forensicbuzz]

I am asking this as a legitimate question and I know the majority of the "fans" on this site (including me) don't have the foggiest clue what the answer is.

On this team, who makes the calls, offensively and defensively? How much does Collins have to do with the X's and O's? How much does Collins just point them in the direction and let the coordinators figure out how to get us there? How much do the individual position coaches choose the personnel groupings?

I think unless we understand the dynamic amongst the coaches and how the decisions are made, we're only guessing at what the solution is. It could be replace position coaches, it could be replace coordinators, it could be the entire staff (not going to happen in my opinion), it could be that it doesn't matter because we don't have the Jimmy's and Joe's to compete yet.

I know there's going to be much speculation and hand-wringing and discussion about what changes come about, but I will wait to see what changes are made and then enter into a discussion about what that's going to mean for next year and the years to follow. But I will be VERY interested to see if any of our more knowledgeable posters are willing to provide some clarity.

Change for change sake is not going to be fruitful.

 

[stech81]

Don't know for sure but I seem to remember the first year Thacker said something like he did what CGC wanted , offense I have no idea who calls the plays and who sends in the players

 

[jgtengineer]

Collins helps with defensive prep throughout the week and on game day hes in thackers ear but thacker calls the defense and their signaled signal it on. On offense coach p calls it and the designated signalers signal it on. Our problems are part play calling part technique and discipline which is why we need and overhaul in general our secondary players are making so many mistakes it must be due to bad training.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

No clue and honestly I don’t care. That he hasn’t changed whatever his system is tells me all I need to know. It shouldn’t take 3 monumentally bad seasons to change what isn’t working. Watching Bama/Auburn I can promise you Saban is going to change something up at halftime. Not because he’s a genius but because he’s normal. That’s what normal people do. Normal people don’t need to get kicked in the face for 36 months to realize they should do something.

 

[motynes]

Correct. Saban saw the writing on the wall and switched his smashmouth offense to a spread. He hasn’t looked back. Because great coaches adjust.

 

[SteamWhistle]

New Coordinators, maybe a new strength staff. New blood and philosophies, the talent is there. There is ZERO excuse to lose more then 5 next year with the players we will have. Competent play calling and better schemes is the answer bottom line. Regardless if Collins was fired or not this year our game planning for teams has been piss poor and that would’ve been the #1 challenge for a new coach. I’m hoping we can bring in some elite playcallers and guys who give us an identity. Every game under Collins has been a mystery as to what our staffs goal was to do schematically, even in games where we have moved the football, and stopped teams it almost feels like dumb luck. We struggle to adapt and adjust through out the game as well. I just want to feel confident in an offense again, and not feel like if we have an incomplete pass on 1st down that it’s going to be a run for little gain and 2nd and then a sack on 3rd. Seen that too many times with Coach P. Defensively want to feel confident that we can get a stop on 3rd down without a sack. Disguise some coverages, stop blitzing to the RB side where he can pass protect. Maybe some stunts with the interior DL, anything else then the Cov 2, 4 man rush, then the Cov 3 fake A gap pressure on 3rd downs.

 

[TruckStick]

Do you see who is calling the plays on the sideline? You can see it is Thacker and Patenaude.

They make in game decisions unless Geoff vetoes them.

The coordinators are responsible for creating a game plan and executing it. Geoff only modifies and gives his opinion. I’m skeptical if he has fired anyone in his time as a coach in a position to do so because it seems he is timid about letting go of people due to his “love” for them.

As for personnel groupings these are done in staff meetings a group. Everyone gets to voice their opinion and usually it is the coordinators decision then the HC to veto.

My brother played for GT football so I know how this works.

Who leads the program? Who are the Vice Presidents?

If you don’t see this clearly then you might need to go study.

Also who dictates how practice is done? Clearly this has been discussed in detail. Other than that the assistants coach technique.

I don’t understand the original post @forensicbuzz other than trying to ridicule the fans first before the coaches take blame.

The product being sold is defective. If you are buying an inferior product you blast the leadership first and they have a chance to fix the product.

If your product loyalty is to a defective product then shame on you if they company keeps selling a defective product despite promises to fix.

 

[tomknight]

I’m skeptical if he has fired anyone in his time as a coach in a position to do so because it seems he is timid about letting go of people due to his “love” for them.

Care to share how you know this?

 

[forensicbuzz]

Do you see who is calling the plays on the sideline? You can see it is Thacker and Patenaude.

They make in game decisions unless Geoff vetoes them.

The coordinators are responsible for creating a game plan and executing it. Geoff only modifies and gives his opinion. I’m skeptical if he has fired anyone in his time as a coach in a position to do so because it seems he is timid about letting go of people due to his “love” for them.

As for personnel groupings these are done in staff meetings a group. Everyone gets to voice their opinion and usually it is the coordinators decision then the HC to veto.

My brother played for GT football so I know how this works.

Who leads the program? Who are the Vice Presidents?

If you don’t see this clearly then you might need to go study.

Also who dictates how practice is done? Clearly this has been discussed in detail. Other than that the assistants coach technique.

I don’t understand the original post @forensicbuzz other than trying to ridicule the fans first before the coaches take blame.

The product being sold is defective. If you are buying an inferior product you blast the leadership first and they have a chance to fix the product.

If your product loyalty is to a defective product then shame on you if they company keeps selling a defective product despite promises to fix.

Half of this is potentially useful, half of it is drivel. Thanks for a half-hearted attempt.

 

[RonJohn]

Most would assume that the coordinators decide what plays/coverages to run, but I do not know if that is what the team has been doing.

However, I see issues that are definitely on the HC to fix. He might not be directly responsible for substituting players, but if the system that the team is using is broken, the HC is responsible for ensuring that the system is fixed. He might not be directly responsible for getting the play calls from the decisions maker to the team on the field, but the HC is definitely responsible for getting that system fixed if it takes so long that the defense can't get set or the offense can't get plays off. Both of those have been issues all season long and they have not been fixed. The HC is not personally signaling plays and he isn't personally managing substitutions, but he is responsible for making sure that those things happen effectively.

 

[cthenrys]

Most would assume that the coordinators decide what plays/coverages to run, but I do not know if that is what the team has been doing.

However, I see issues that are definitely on the HC to fix. He might not be directly responsible for substituting players, but if the system that the team is using is broken, the HC is responsible for ensuring that the system is fixed. He might not be directly responsible for getting the play calls from the decisions maker to the team on the field, but the HC is definitely responsible for getting that system fixed if it takes so long that the defense can't get set or the offense can't get plays off. Both of those have been issues all season long and they have not been fixed. The HC is not personally signaling plays and he isn't personally managing substitutions, but he is responsible for making sure that those things happen effectively.

At a high level, no less..

 

[TruckStick]

Half of this is potentially useful, half of it is drivel. Thanks for a half-hearted attempt.

Care to share how you know this?

Do some research:

Taver Johnson didn’t voluntarily return in 2018 to Temple because he was moved to co-defensive coordinator. https://temple-news.com/report-assistant-leave-temple-ohio-state-football/

Cory Robinson at Temple took and upgrade, most other changes like Panagos decided not to continue with Collins to GT.

Not sure Collins has fired anyone in a head coach position. As coordinator you don’t fire.

 

[HouseDivided]

We need a DC that is aggressive and attacks the LOS, uses multiple personnel packages and let's his players use their instincts. If you watch Clemson and Ugags defense, they fly to the ball, are fundamentally sound and play down hill. They attack ans put pressure on the opposing offense to execute in a rush.

You can cover deficiencies in your scheme if you play aggressive, but smart.

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

We need a DC that is aggressive and attacks the LOS, uses multiple personnel packages and let's his players use their instincts. If you watch Clemson and Ugags defense, they fly to the ball, are fundamentally sound and play down hill. They attack ans put pressure on the opposing offense to execute in a rush.

You can cover deficiencies in your scheme if you play aggressive, but smart.

When you watch Clemson and Uga's defense, you have NFL talent all over the field so it doesn't really matter what scheme you run. If it was as easy as copying their schemes everyone would do it. Everyone needs Clemson and UGA talent though, which obviously doesn't exist outside of the top tier of programs.

 

[forensicbuzz]

We need a DC that is aggressive and attacks the LOS, uses multiple personnel packages and let's his players use their instincts. If you watch Clemson and Ugags defense, they fly to the ball, are fundamentally sound and play down hill. They attack ans put pressure on the opposing offense to execute in a rush.

You can cover deficiencies in your scheme if you play aggressive, but smart.

Surely you're not comparing our defensive talent to that of Clemson or uga! If we had those players, we could play like that too. Not defending what we're doing, because I don't think it's defensible, but Clemson or uga talent, we have not.

 

[HouseDivided]

When you watch Clemson and Uga's defense, you have NFL talent all over the field so it doesn't really matter what scheme you run. If it was as easy as copying their schemes everyone would do it. Everyone needs Clemson and UGA talent though, which obviously doesn't exist outside of the top tier of programs.

Correct. But that doesn't mean we can't play with same type of scheme. Not saying it will be a roaring success but what we're running right now isn't working. Until our 2ndary is above peewee level we have got to imply more pressure packages. You don't studs at every position to do so.

 

[HouseDivided]

Surely you're not comparing our defensive talent to that of Clemson or uga! If we had those players, we could play like that too. Not defending what we're doing, because I don't think it's defensible, but Clemson or uga talent, we have not.

Not at all. I'm saying we should try and play a more aggressive scheme as they do. We may not be as successful due to lack of talent, but we have got to do a better job mixing in more pressure/blitz packages. Our 2ndary is garbage, we know that. The best thing for a beleaguered 2ndary is pressure. Our front 7 isn't totally useless. We have some athleticism. .

One thing Ugag did endlessly today is stunted and rolled the gaps, confusing our O-line and they brought their backers, in the vacant spaces left by the stunts and rolls. We can do that too. That's a not a talent issue, thats a scheme issue.

 

[lv20gt]

Not at all. I'm saying we should try and play a more aggressive scheme as they do. We may not be as successful due to lack of talent, but we have got to do a better job mixing in more pressure/blitz packages. Our 2ndary is garbage, we know that. The best thing for a beleaguered 2ndary is pressure. Our front 7 isn't totally useless. We have some athleticism. .

The problem is even when we bring extra defender we rarely generate pressure and that goes back to a lack of ability to generate pressure from our DL. If you aren't generating pressure from the DL then Blitzes are less likely to work because the openings are less likely to be there because the opponent is worried about the DL getting to the QB. UGA did a lot of the stuff you mentioned. They were also able to cause disruption without it. Our OL had to worry about their DL creating problems by themselves and that made the openings that they then exploited. Their OL didn't have to worry about our DL doing the same thing.

Ultimately, and this isn't just related to this particular area, scheme can't address every issue. Now there probably were issues on the defense which scheme could address but I'd argue the biggest problem this year was the defensive backs being out of position which is a problem with either bad communication, players freelancing trying to play hero ball, or a combination of the two.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I watched one team yesterday playing man to man from head up on the LOS. They were out talented but made a game of it. It might have been Auburn, but I watched so many.

 

[HouseDivided]

The problem is even when we bring extra defender we rarely generate pressure and that goes back to a lack of ability to generate pressure from our DL. If you aren't generating pressure from the DL then Blitzes are less likely to work because the openings are less likely to be there because the opponent is worried about the DL getting to the QB. UGA did a lot of the stuff you mentioned. They were also able to cause disruption without it. Our OL had to worry about their DL creating problems by themselves and that made the openings that they then exploited. Their OL didn't have to worry about our DL doing the same thing.

Ultimately, and this isn't just related to this particular area, scheme can't address every issue. Now there probably were issues on the defense which scheme could address but I'd argue the biggest problem this year was the defensive backs being out of position which is a problem with either bad communication, players freelancing trying to play hero ball, or a combination of the two.

All valid points. Scheme isn't the cure all our ills but it will give us a better chance to be successful. If we're going to be at a talent disadvantage against better teams, some by a wide margin like Clumpson & Ugag, we have to scheme around it to try and make plays and or bring pressure. It's the only way to account for the lack of Jimmies and Joe's.

Being at the game, we did very little of what UGA did defensively regarding blitz packages. We usually just brought an LB through the A or B gap which was picked up routinely by their backs. If we did not do that, we brought a delayed blitz up the seam and or a delayed DB blitz a few times. We were predictable. Bennett read it and shifted the RB or protection at the line numerous times.

I don't recall many stunts or rolling of the gaps to create pressure nor did maintain our run fits very well.

If we aren't going to recruit better, we have to try something.