Clinton & Trump are criminals and should be in jail. /sarcasm

[AE 87]

Okay, so it seems the “Putin can get our boy elected” story is this (link):

The “business associate” was a Russian immigrant who claimed to be able to engineer the election with the help of Putin. He apparently was trying to sell Trump’s lawyer on building a Trump tower in Moscow. The Trump Tower was never built, and there’s no evidence that the guy did anything in keeping with what he suggested he could do.


So rather than being evidence of collusion, that story is evidence of potential collusion being rejected.


The next allegation is about e-mails trying to set up a meeting between Trump and Putin. Apparently the advisor pushing this was also Papadopoulos (link). As this story makes clear (even though it also relies on innuendo to suggest other wrong doing), the higher-ups in the campaign pushed back and no such meeting occurred. Again, it’s evidence of collusion rejected not of collusion.


The Donald Trump Jr story is probably pretty well known. Here’s the e-mail chain. I guess it would’ve been more believable to some if destroyed the evidence rather than releasing it. It gives evidence that he was willing to receive incriminating evidence but again, there’s no evidence of collusion.


I don’t know anything about the “intelligence” about Manafort asking for help from Russia; however, apparently neither did former FBI Director Comey nor former DNI Clapper since both testified under oath that they did not know of any evidence of collusion.


Finally, reference to the dossier defies reasonable credulity. First of all, Senators made claims as part of their testimony during public questioning which assumes claims from that dossier are fact. However, its veracity has been questioned. Still, those people who accept it must think it’s okay to accept information from Russians, which was apparently paid for. In other words, it was the product of political collusion with Russians to hurt Trump.


Now, I could say more, but I know that some people think conservative news services are all liars.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

LOL.

Well, that is exactly the argument I would use about Hillary. She has been investigated for 30 years and no one has ever found anything to charge her with or anything to arrest her for. The famous Whitewater investigation with Ken Starr spent years and found nothing and finally had to settle for a stain on Monica Lewinsky's dress.

The investigation of Trump is looking more and more like the Watergate investigation but with juicier tidbits. By the way, it is illegal to accept foreign assistance in a U.S. election.

That is patently false. Coney listed a dozen statutes she broke. But he recommended against prosecution. That's the difference - there are defined laws she broke. Nobody can name a single one Trump did.

 

[AE 87]

That is patently false. Coney listed a dozen statutes she broke. But he recommended against prosecution. That's the difference - there are defined laws she broke. Nobody can name a single one Trump did.

I already asked him if he could distinguish the meaning of her being "extremely careless" (Comey's words) and guilty of "gross negligence" (the legal standard). He didn't even try.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

For those who want to take the left and right hate between each other to a thread, this is a good place for it. Hopefully it will keep the global warming thread not so polluted.

 

[AE 87]

Please Please stop the Clinton Trump stuff. Take it to another thread.

You may want to relax.

The thread was started about a press release on 2015. We are now nearing the end of 2017. I think you can pretty much assume that people aren't still talking about 2015.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I am 4 beers in for the evening and very relaxed. The point being independent of when the thread started it is still a global warming thread. Or at least it has been. You can find a million threads on the interwebs talking about how stupid the left and right is. Why turn this into yet another stupid thread that will never amount to anything? Everyone is firm on their opinion and nothing will change.

But the Global warming discussions here have been very good and open minded.

a mod could clean this up and move the Russia Trump Hill stuff to its own thread....but probably won't

 

[Northeast Stinger]

So after extensive investigations it turns out that Obama did not wire tap Trump Tower. This ends up being just like the lies Trump told about Obama not being a U.S. citizen. No wonder that Politifact found that 70% of Trump's statements range from "mostly false" to "pants on fire."

But I predict that the extreme right wing nut jobs will end up saying Politifact is biased rather than face the facts.

 

[AE 87]

LOL

Rather than responding to posts which show his last data dump was full of misleading misrepresentation of the facts, yankee stinger attacks.

It is unclear whether he is intentionally dissembling or just repeating stuff from the fake news which he took on faith.

As a result, we don't know if the same thing is happening again. Chances are it's just a repeating of the DOJ report. However, for those who still care about the truth, Trump's initial tweet put "wires tapped" in quotes. It was not a claim of literal wire tapping which referred to a process for intercepting primarily analog signals.

Now, if you take "wires tapped" metaphorically, then you have the evidence which was mentioned in his last post about intercepting e-mails etc.

smdh

 

[Northeast Stinger]

When asked about wire taps Trump never used the term metaphorical. It was only after he got caught in the lie that he began to fudge, as he always does. There were no wire taps of Trump Tower, end of story.

But then again, someone who thinks that being born in Georgia and living in Georgia makes you a yankee has learned how to really stretch the term "metaphorical."

 

[Northeast Stinger]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/sep/2/doj-unaware-evidence-support-trump-tower-wiretappi/

 

[AE 87]

sigh ...

So, yankee (someone who self-identifies with the northeast) stinger decides to finally offer a link in support of one of his claims. Of interest, it was in support of the claim which was conceded, that Trump wasn't literally wire tapped. D'uh ...

In my last post, I noted that the original tweet on the basis of which it has been asserted that Trump claimed Obama tapped Trump Tower, he had put "wires tapped" in quotes.

Yankee Stinger does not respond to this fact beyond claiming that Trump never used the word metaphorical. First, here is a link to a random editing and writing website which explains, "Writers often use 'Scare quotes' (7.55) to let the reader know that a term is used in a nonstandard or special sense." So, Trump did mark his reference to wire-tapping as non literal in a recognizable way.

The White House through its press secretary explained as much within 10 days, as CNN admits. The fact that they go on to press a nefarious interpretation of Trump without ever explaining why they think he used quotation marks raises questions of integrity in my opinion.

At this point, the only ones pushing this story (like those to which I responded earlier) either don't know the actual facts or those who don't care because they want to take out of context and twist what was said in order to dupe the gullible.

Now, it should be noted, that yankee stinger now seems to claim that he was born in Georgia and so is not a yankee. However, he's posted on here for a pretty long time where he's never denied the Yankee identity suggested by his self-reference as Northeast.

So, it seems that you have a choice, either I am right that I can interpret his self-reference to Northeast as being the same as a Yankee and so any denial by him is just a convenient lie, or you have to say that those who treat Trump's tweets this way are guilty of the same unfairness with which I've been accused.

 

[LibertyTurns]

OK, so Susan Rice the National Security Advisor unmasked communications emanating from the Trump Tower that were incidentally collected as part of a broad surveillance effort that just happened to be the headquarters of the Trump campaign.

Second, it's illegal to allow foreigners to meddle in our election process yet John McCain takes a Russian generated smear job on Trump filtered through U.K., hands it to the intel community who provides it to the WH and subsequently leaks it to the press and that's OK.

Third, the head of the FBI gets caught lying through his teeth about exonerating Hillary and the same lily white FBI is blocking testimony from 2 key witnesses into that series of events.

Lastly, Hillary destroys evidence in an ongoing investigation and the same guy cannot figure out this is obstruction of justice. He's a law enforcement professional in case anyone hadn't notice.

My question for the lefties is Why do you think the rabid Trump supporters support him no matter what drivel leaks out of the beltway or how off-the-chart loony his tweets are? People are pissed at this crap. There's no law and order left in the US and the 2 major parties cannot find a single solitary candidate that's not so wretchedly corrupt that the least informed of the electorate has an option that won't make you puke.

That's how we got to this place. Want it fixed- drain the DC swamp and throw them all out including the head tweeter. Find someone that has some semblance of ethics and half a clue how to run a country.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

So after extensive investigations it turns out that Obama did not wire tap Trump Tower. This ends up being just like the lies Trump told about Obama not being a U.S. citizen. No wonder that Politifact found that 70% of Trump's statements range from "mostly false" to "pants on fire."

But I predict that the extreme right wing nut jobs will end up saying Politifact is biased rather than face the facts.

Call me a nut job because politifact is biased as piss.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

OK, so Susan Rice the National Security Advisor unmasked communications emanating from the Trump Tower that were incidentally collected as part of a broad surveillance effort that just happened to be the headquarters of the Trump campaign.

Second, it's illegal to allow foreigners to meddle in our election process yet John McCain takes a Russian generated smear job on Trump filtered through U.K., hands it to the intel community who provides it to the WH and subsequently leaks it to the press and that's OK.

Third, the head of the FBI gets caught lying through his teeth about exonerating Hillary and the same lily white FBI is blocking testimony from 2 key witnesses into that series of events.

Lastly, Hillary destroys evidence in an ongoing investigation and the same guy cannot figure out this is obstruction of justice. He's a law enforcement professional in case anyone hadn't notice.

My question for the lefties is Why do you think the rabid Trump supporters support him no matter what drivel leaks out of the beltway or how off-the-chart loony his tweets are? People are pissed at this crap. There's no law and order left in the US and the 2 major parties cannot find a single solitary candidate that's not so wretchedly corrupt that the least informed of the electorate has an option that won't make you puke.

That's how we got to this place. Want it fixed- drain the DC swamp and throw them all out including the head tweeter. Find someone that has some semblance of ethics and half a clue how to run a country.

I found a microphone I think you may have dropped....want it back?

Trey Gowdy for president. Boot most of the rest.

 

[awbuzz]

wunderground has been a good weather site over the years.

 

[AE 87]

Irma is probably going to be a real ***** in about a week. Looks like Atlantic landfall between Florida and NC somewhere and then bury herself inland. So much for the high pressure keeping her away. May still happen that she stays at sea but it's less likely and our run of good luck may run out on the East Coast. Damn. Started thinking about / doing preps already.

My two favorite sites for tracking are WeatherUnderground ...... check out the Ensemble Models chart ...... https://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/atlantic/2017/hurricane-irma

Of course the best site for 3-4 days out is the Navy site https://www.nrlmry.navy.mil/tc-bin/.../www/atlantic/tropics/microvap/dmsp&TYPE=ssmi

Why am I not surprised your a fan of the Weather Underground since you like all of Bill Ayers' friends?

(stupid moment of levity, sorry)

 

[Northeast Stinger]

AE 87 gets really dramatic with his definitions and obtuse argumentation. A careful reader will not be deceived however. Trump often uses quotes when he is confused about what his claim is. Surely others have noticed this before.

But once again AE 87 never likes to admit when he is wrong. He only digs in deeper and obfuscates.

The facts are that Donald Trump tweeted more than once and commented more than once on the "wire tapping." His obsession with Obama even caused him to compare President Obama's "wiretapping" to President Nixon. Trump of course is too ignorant to know that a President does not have the authority to wire tap a U.S. citizen. Only a FISA court can do that.

Here is how others responded to the charge of wiretapping.
Paul Ryan "No such wiretap exists."
Devin Nunes "We don't have any evidence of wiretaps."
NSA (formally rejected the claim)\
FBI (formally rejected the claim)
DOJ (formally rejected the claim)

Trump tweeted "How low has Presdient Obama gone to tapp (sic) my phones during the very sacred election process."
He then told Fox News on March 16 "I will have very interesting proof of this in two week."

crickets

Of course he also implied he had recorded his conversations with FBI Director Comey, something he stated in increasingly vague ways without ever admitting that he just made the whole thing up. He never produced those recordings either. He never withdrew his claim just like he never withdrew his claim that Obama was not a U.S. Citizen.

Yes, I was born in Georgia, have lived in Georgia most of my life and currently live in Georgia. When I first joined this site I was working in New England. When I moved back to Georgia I felt no need to change my avatar. Anyone making more out of that than what it is probably is feeling weak about their other claims.

 

[AE 87]

sigh .

Is everyone seeing a pattern? While I might take personal shots at those who make personal attacks on people who disagree with them, I follow it up with substantive response. What do we see here? Personal attack, and repeating the point that's already been conceded, that there were no literal wire taps. A mature person would acknowledge that this point has been granted twice.

However, we find here an assertion of how Trump "often uses quotes when he is confused." I'm sure we'll see documentation in support of this claim. Just wait ...

Instead, we have a new accusation, the assertion that Trump claimed that Obama did what only a FISA court can do. We are left to wonder whether @Northeast Stinger is as unaware of metonymy as he is of the use of quotes. He may very well be the only American who hears reports of what the White House has said and thinks we have a talking building. Don't worry, I'm not doubling down, this was part of Spicer's explanation that I linked in my previous post. Of course, when you quote Rachel Maddow like Biblical Fundamentalists quote the Bible, you don't actually have to look at other data. You move forward on faith.

Finally, we see he continues with his tired tactic of moving the goal post. Instead of replying to my responses to his previous accusations, he just raises a new one. Did you follow the "logic" (not the use of quotes to refer to a non-standard use of the word logic)? He said that Trump implied recordings but never produced recordings. Shocker!

However, what happened after that? Comey testified publicly before Congress that he had told Trump 3 times that he was not under investigation. In fact, his whole testimony supported Trump's account of what happened except for what Comey had said prior to Trump's tweet. In other words, everything that Comey said after Trump's tweet confirmed what Trump said. Now, I might think that Trump is a clown (and I mostly do), but I have to say that his tweet worked-out as genius (whether he intended it or not).

Now, @Northeast Stinger , I have no reason to doubt that you are from Georgia and live in Georgia as you say. However, my last post was apparently unclear. I was trying to draw a connection between my assumption that someone who self-identifies with the northeast is a yankee and the assumptions of those who put the worst construction on everything Trump tweets and says. My point was that normal people when confronted with new information in which a person explains themselves take that in and consider it. Just as you want me to consider your explanation for your choice of name, I think that you should consider the Trump explanation for the data that you are raising.

However, I understand that I am challenging your faith position. I don't mean it to be a personal attack, but I understand that when I suggest that the commentators on CNN and MSNBC are intentionally misrepresenting the facts for ratings, it's like I'm telling a Biblical Fundamentalist that reasonable people might find water being turned to wine hard to believe. Still, there might be some reading this who still have an open mind.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

O.K., so the point is granted that there were no literal wire taps. Yet Trump continued to speak as if they were literal, as he did when Angela Merkel visited and he said, "As far as wiretapping I guess by this past administration, at least we have something in common, perhaps." Around the same time he accused British Intelligence of tapping his phone, something the White House staff sought to play down since it had been completely debunked. Trump has never backed down from his charge that his phones were tapped.

Yes, I agree with you completely, Trump is a clown.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Trump is a boob. I'll completely concede that. But I'll take him for now as he is currently pushing, a mostly conservative agenda.

Obama and Hillary are corrupt as F. With Hillary in particular the evidence of this and her inability to speak without lying is irrefutable to any but the loyally blind.

@Northeast Stinger..,.i like ya and have enjoyed debating you. But you refuse to answer the direct questions posed to you.

From me, How many hundred billions do you want America to spend toward AGW as a cause,? how do you think this will impact our economy? how much will this spending affect global temps thus reducing the AGW you find to be so dire?

From AE...the direct points he's made above. You failed to comment on any and chose instead to regurgitate your prior point he answered directly.

I'll pose another. For all of your condemnation of what you think Trump might have done, where is your condemnation for what we know Hillary did? The hypocrisy of the left regarding Hillary is astounding.