Clinton & Trump are criminals and should be in jail. /sarcasm

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ATL1

ATL1

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The only thing that I can do is wait and see. I don't believe anyone has been completely truthful and both parties have been complicit in putting the country in this position. 45 is just Awful, maybe he'll be impeached, but I don't think the Republicans have the balls to do that. So we stuck.

Whatever with Hillary, she is not president and this Fox fascination with her is ridiculous. The president with the U.S. could have possibly colluded with an ENEMY state to become president. That's the main news we should be talking about. What Hillary's campaign did is unethical, perhaps criminal, but she's not the president.
 

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ATL1 said:
The only thing that I can do is wait and see. I don't believe anyone has been completely truthful and both parties have been complicit in putting the country in this position. 45 is just Awful, maybe he'll be impeached, but I don't think the Republicans have the balls to do that. So we stuck.

Whatever with Hillary, she is not president and this Fox fascination with her is ridiculous. The president with the U.S. could have possibly colluded with an ENEMY state to become president. That's the main news we should be talking about. What Hillary's campaign did is unethical, perhaps criminal, but she's not the president.
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Well, we have definitive proof of:
1) Meddling in and manipulation of an election.
2) Collusion with Russia to forward significant business and strategic national interests.
3) Collusion with Russia to sow chaos within the United States.

In all cases, its the Democrats.

Trump has been told numerous times and continues to be told that he is not under investigation. This entire thing is a big fat nothing fake joke. Do you really believe that there was criminal activity going on, the Obama Administration (with Clinton inside of it) FBI and Intelligence Services all surveilled Trump and his campaign, yet they decided to leave it alone for a year? I don't see how anybody could believe that is the case.

Mueller is simply doing clean-up duty. Manafort and Gates didn't file the proper paperwork and for some reason nobody did anything about it. He can't/shouldn't ignore that now, so he's doing something about it. Not sure why people let that go - maybe to just let it ride and see if it ever lead to something else. But that's it. This has nothing to do with Trump other than he knew some bad people. But that is nothing new in Washington.
 
UgaBlows

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bwelbo said:
Well I am happy you are starting to come around. (FBI/Intelligence Services used that dossier). We are making progress.

I just got done reading up on the charges for Manafort. Amazing all this leaking was illegal and I know it now, so funny.

Anyway, all the stuff on Manafort is from early 2000s until a couple years ago. None of this affects the campaign. None of this affects Trump.

The charges are that he failed to register as a foreign agent, because during that time 15 years ago, he began making money consulting for the Ukrainian government (which was pro-Russia at the time). The statute of limitations only goes back 5 years on most felonies, so these charges therefore are only for a couple years. Interestingly, Manafort did actually register as a foreign agent, but only after it came out that he hadn't done that. So he I guess could make an argument that he didn't know better (which is BS, but maybe that affects the sentence). Anyway, also interestingly, Congress dictates that action is a misdemeanor, so I'm not sure that will amount to much.

Another charge is lying on the form when he did register. Basically, damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. So since he filed as a foreign agent, he therefore admitted he hadn't before which is a lie. LOL.

The other charges as best I can tell are money laundering stuff. To stick that on someone, you have to prove the money was gotten illegally in the first place. So its not like its from dealing drugs or getting paid under the table by someone. He simply would be getting stuck with this charge only because of his failure to originally file the right paperwork. Its not illegal to make money by working with bad people and to open foreign accounts and put the money there and not pay taxes on it. What is illegal is not filing the paperwork on that.

If this is as far as what comes out when its public (we'll have to see), this is incredibly weak. I see 1 of 2 outcomes:
1) "This is all you have, after all this? Stuff that we knew a long time ago?"
2) If more eventually comes out. "Really? You had this information for all this time and you did nothing to stop Trump from being elected?"

I highly highly doubt its #2, because if there was bad activity going on related to Trump, I just have a hard time with all the other nefarious illegal activity by the FBI and Intelligence Services that they would have sat on it.
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I'm glad your coming around too, because if you accept that the dossier was used in obtaining a fisa warrant on Page then you should also be accepting that parts of it have been proven true by the fbi. Those warrants are not easy to obtain.

As far as todays indictments go, first of all it's a lot more than paperwork not filed out right, but secondly i don't think i'd crow too much about this having nothing to do with trump or his campaign. Those two poor sumbitches have just been put in a horse race to see who wants to come tell Mueller everything and who goes to get-pounded-in-the-arse federal prison.

The other guy Poupadapolous? Has obviously flipped already. I wonder about Flynn and Page if they already have?
 
UgaBlows

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bwelbo said:
Well, we have definitive proof of:
1) Meddling in and manipulation of an election.
2) Collusion with Russia to forward significant business and strategic national interests.
3) Collusion with Russia to sow chaos within the United States.

In all cases, its the Democrats.

Trump has been told numerous times and continues to be told that he is not under investigation. This entire thing is a big fat nothing fake joke. This has nothing to do with Trump other than he knew some bad people.
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Jesus H. Christ! Do you actually believe all this? Really?
 
UgaBlows

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Weird, this didn't happen back in 2000 before trump...

http://amp.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article181708151.html

WASHINGTON


"A company listed in the Monday indictment of former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort and his associate Rick Gates received funds from the Republican National Committee for work done in coordination with Donald Trump’s election campaign.

Bade LLC, listed in the indictment among 17 domestic entities that Manafort and Gates are alleged to have used to hide foreign earnings, particularly from Ukraine, was paid a total of $70,000 in three payments by the Republican National Committee in September 2016, October 2016 and January 2017."
 

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UgaBlows said:
Weird, this didn't happen back in 2000 before trump...

http://amp.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article181708151.html

WASHINGTON


"A company listed in the Monday indictment of former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort and his associate Rick Gates received funds from the Republican National Committee for work done in coordination with Donald Trump’s election campaign.

Bade LLC, listed in the indictment among 17 domestic entities that Manafort and Gates are alleged to have used to hide foreign earnings, particularly from Ukraine, was paid a total of $70,000 in three payments by the Republican National Committee in September 2016, October 2016 and January 2017."
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That literally has nothing to do with nothing. I am sure a bad guy somewhere did business with Wells Fargo Bank. So since I bank with them too, I'm dirty?
 

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UgaBlows said:
Jesus H. Christ! Do you actually believe all this? Really?
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What, 1-2-3? All 3 are totally true. Unless you ignore Bernie Sanders, Uranium One, all the speaking and millions from Russia to Clinton, and the current circus.
 
Whiskey_Clear

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...g-russian-officials-in-dnc-computer-hack.html

DOJ thinks they have probable cause to charge Russian officials. I'm highly skeptical. From what I know they don't have the physical evidence to prove that....the DNC shipped their computers and hard drives to Europe rather than turn them over to the FBI to investigate it.

Looking forward to hearing what their pc is but I suspect this never gets indicted. Defense attorneys will have a field day.
 

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UgaBlows said:
And Hillary, don't forget her. She secretly rules over the deep state.
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Sessions will pull the Reagan "I do not recall". Whether he stays or not or gets in trouble or not is of no consequence to me. Did you notice that this information came from surveillance of his conversations? It's amazing to me how much surveilling and leaking is coming from the intelligence services. It's really amazing.
 
Whiskey_Clear

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I just have little tolerance for people who claim they do not recall...events that they should recall. I would think Sessions should be able to remember meeting Kislyak at the friggin Mayflower.

I'm interested in the Papadapolous timeline. Was his suggestion to meet with Putin / Russians at the meeting (where Sessions reportedly quashed the suggestion) before or after he began cooperating with the FBI? If after that raises some questions regarding entrapment and the integrity of the investigation.

But yes. Drain the swamp, on both aisles.
 
Whiskey_Clear

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As a side note....does it seem to anyone else that our government, both parties, is currently very susceptible to Russian disinformation and manipulation? Hell politicians in both parties are more inclined to trust Russian officials than their political rivals here at home.

There can be no doubt the Russians continuously attempt to compromise and manipulate us, again both parties, in order to weaken us against them.
 
UgaBlows

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Where has Flynn gone in all this? So quiet on his end. I could see him playing a potential Ollie North role for Trump down the road...just taking the blame for everything.
 
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