Chuck showing CBG some love

[MidtownJacket]

I have been upset as anyone at CBG over the course of this season, and given the larger lense of his body of work at GT was feeling more and more ready to throw my hands up. Then we went on the run to close the season and I read this:

http://georgiatech.blog.ajc.com/2016/03/13/mitchell-on-gregory-hes-a-great-coach/

I have to say, there are some real nuggets here in the article - and I'm still not convinced we shouldn't be focusing on bringing in an offensive minded assistant and leave CBG as HC. Say what you will, defensively (minus weird spurts this season) we have been solid and we rebound well as a team.

I also never discount when student athletes - and especially transfers at the end of their time here - talk highly of a coach. Chuck offers perspective on the difference CBG made for his game and that speaks pretty highly to me.

TIFWIW

 

[collegeballfan]

Fascinating sentence in the article:

"And, undoubtedly, the less visible aspects of what Gregory has done at Tech, namely straightening up the team’s abysmal academic record..."

"abysmal academic record" ??? You guys that are close to the program is this correct?

 

[bke1984]

Fascinating sentence in the article:

"And, undoubtedly, the less visible aspects of what Gregory has done at Tech, namely straightening up the team’s abysmal academic record..."

"abysmal academic record" ??? You guys that are close to the program is this correct?

I don't recall the specifics, but it was pretty bad under Hewitt.

 

[Peacone36]

Fascinating sentence in the article:

"And, undoubtedly, the less visible aspects of what Gregory has done at Tech, namely straightening up the team’s abysmal academic record..."

"abysmal academic record" ??? You guys that are close to the program is this correct?

Yes.

As in on the verge of losing scholarships bad

 

[lv20gt]

Great, we're already at the point of the year where people try to make arguments for keeping gregory that have nothing to do with being even adequate at his job?

 

[GTHomer]

Great, we're already at the point of the year where people try to make arguments for keeping gregory that have nothing to do with being even adequate at his job?

One of the metrics since 2003 is the Academic Progress Rate (APR). At a school like ours, it is just as important to do well with this as wins and losses. Most fans might disagree with this.

 

[MidtownJacket]

Which is, I suppose, part of my point. He has done a lot of good for the program as well. I just wish we could bring in some new fire for the offense.

Also clearly next year we are in need of a PG again too.

 

[lv20gt]

One of the metrics since 2003 is the Academic Progress Rate (APR). At a school like ours, it is just as important to do well with this as wins and losses. Most fans might disagree with this.

And the APR is extremely flawed and does not actually reflect academic progress, and the "improvement" in that area is largely due to taking players who aren't a threat to go pro early and the fact that transfers have incentive to stay eligible where guys going pro don't.

 

[gtbync]

I'm sure there's a coach that can do both. Meaning bring in players that are winners and keep the academics up, not just one way or the other.

 

[JacketFromUGA]

I'd love to keep BG as like a asst AD over Basketball. Just need a new coach though.

 

[GTHomer]

And the APR is extremely flawed and does not actually reflect academic progress, and the "improvement" in that area is largely due to taking players who aren't a threat to go pro early and the fact that transfers have incentive to stay eligible where guys going pro don't.

It may be flawed however if applied consistently against member institutions, it does provide some insight regarding schools helping student athletes to graduate.

 

[lv20gt]

It may be flawed however if applied consistently against member institutions, it does provide some insight regarding schools helping student athletes to graduate.

And says nothing of the quality of the education received which is what is actually important, not some piece of paper.

 

[Vespidie]

The mis-perception that most are confusing with regards to Gregory revolves around his coaching ability -vs- his recruiting ability. The guy got the most out of the talent that he had to work with. Unfortunately he isn't very good at bringing in the talent that will compete with the upper tier of the ACC. His players at time s tended to disappear at key moments which tends to be costly when looking at wins and losses. If the man could recruit better players, then things might have turned out differently.

 

[BeeRBee]

"abysmal academic record" ??? You guys that are close to the program is this correct?

Here's a post I made last month on GT's APR performance. Without rehashing everything, my conclusion was that Hewitt had 2 really bad years (which resulted in actual scholarship losses), but the recruiting standards had probably changed and the performance began to improve before he was fired. However, the academic performance has been very good under Gregory, and GT has certainly pushed the narrative that he cleaned it up so he may have made a sea change in the culture.

There's a good article in a past issue of the Alumni magazine (page 31) which describes his approach to academics. It notes that "Gregory first helped his departing senior class improve their grades and graduate on time." He started April 1, 2011, and the two seniors from the 2010-2011 team (Mo Miller and Lance Storrs) both graduated in August 2011. So while they clearly had to be reasonably on track with their requirements, there was certainly enough time for Gregory to have a positive impact and potentially encourage them to stay and finish in the summer.

 

[AE 87]

The mis-perception that most are confusing with regards to Gregory revolves around his coaching ability -vs- his recruiting ability. The guy got the most out of the talent that he had to work with. Unfortunately he isn't very good at bringing in the talent that will compete with the upper tier of the ACC. His players at time s tended to disappear at key moments which tends to be costly when looking at wins and losses. If the man could recruit better players, then things might have turned out differently.

I've noted this possibility in the past. However, against it stands some bad and good losses last year.

 

[Peacone36]

The mis-perception that most are confusing with regards to Gregory revolves around his coaching ability -vs- his recruiting ability. The guy got the most out of the talent that he had to work with. Unfortunately he isn't very good at bringing in the talent that will compete with the upper tier of the ACC. His players at time s tended to disappear at key moments which tends to be costly when looking at wins and losses. If the man could recruit better players, then things might have turned out differently.

I'm not necessarily buying this. His in game decisions/adjustments/rotations are highly questionable and his inability to develop players, specifically backcourt players is obvious.

Then again the proof to the second part of my thought is hard to prove because either no one stays long enough to see development or is only a 1 year merc to begin with. Either way, it's no way to run a program. 0 continuity and zero sustainability.

 

[orientalnc]

If it were a slam dunk, he'd be gone already. I think most of us assumed there were legitimate reasons for keeping him through this season. And, perhaps, beyond. The guys clearly like him and have worked hard under his leadership. That the team did not quit this year is a real tribute to CBG and deserves our respect.

 

[Peacone36]

He has my respect as a person. He is no doubt a top notch fella and measuring stick for integrity for the rest of the league. (This is kind of getting cliche though)

" we wanna go out there and give it all we had"

Yah yah, fill in with the same thing the last 30 guys said.



But I'm a fan of GT Hoops and my ultimate hope is that the program succeed BOTH on the court and in the classroom. My loyalty lies with the program, not necessarily the coach.

 

[RamblinRed]

I don't want to get into too much of a fist fight here but i'll give my views on Gregory, GT etc.

First, Gregory is a wonderful human being. in many ways like Cremins in that no one says anything bad about him. i do appreciate that.
Second, he did come in with a focus on making sure GT got it's academic house in order. GT was one bad semester away from being banned from the NCAA Tourney (it had already lost multiple scholarships). He made sure the SR that were there graduated - that doesn't always happen and in general the young men he has brought in are able to handle GT.
Third, he is not an ACC caliber coach. That's not bad in and of itself. The ACC eats coaches for breakfast and spits them out. Gregory has been and would be fine at a mid major level - he simply isn't acceptable at the ACC level.

Fourth, Gregory still has a job at GT because GT hasn't had the money (or as DTM might phrase it - it hasn't been willing to spend the money) to make a change. I don't think the AD is looking to make another $1MM hire (epsecially when the median price for an ACC coach is close to $2MM). When GT hasthe finances (or decides it wants to use the finances) to make a change it will. Until that point Gregory will remain the coach.

Finally, i'm happy they had a better year this year. My belief after digesting what the financial situation is at GT was that Gregory would be around for at least 2 yrs (through next year). Knowing next year is likely to be a tough year to watch - it was nice to see some very good basketball played at times this year. Most of all i'm happy for MGH, who came in with the idea of getting GT back to where it had once been, that hasn't occurred, but not due to any lack of effort and growth on his part. He has been as fine a representative of GT as any basketball player that I have followed for 35 years.

There is no doubt in my mind that GT needs to change coaches. I feel MBob would likely agree with that statement. The key becomes when can he make a change where he feels he can get a definite upgrade. When that time comes a change comes.

 

[33jacket]

look, pitino a year or two ago said publicly this is a good coach
jay wright said the same thing this year
again, another ncaa head coach who is a friend of mine from the big east, said he is a good coach

I don't agree that he isn't a ACC caliber coach; however, he becomes not an acc caliber coach due to recruiting aspect IMO. He has not recruited ACC caliber level. Why? who knows if its all on bG or not. IMO GT loves to upgrade depreciable assets like facilities; looking like they support the heck out of a program...but when you peel back the covers you see how little support staff is behind the scenes.....so is it all on BG? Who knows....but I can say without a doubt some is.

the dude took tech over in shambles too. Remember our temporary status for the arena? The academic problems, and troubling kids like Rice Jr etc...so he didn't start out on a solid ground to begin with...on top of budget issues..but since then..he hasn't recruited well enough either; and the progress isn't being made like it needs to be. It did this year...but they were all seniors and it wasn't due to building a program as much as flash in the pan.

So...thats the line I draw. I do think the guy is a good enough pure coach in the sense...and his colleagues unprompted have said as much; they have no reason to do that if they didn't think so. My issue is he isn't recruiting to the level we need him to; and that is part of being a coach.....so if he can't do it here...thats fine...we need to find someone who can or get an assistant or two more to help (recruiting staff etc)