Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau
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Can't do that, because Notre Dame would be left out.
CFP First Ranking - I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes....
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Can't do that, because Notre Dame would be left out.
Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau
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Condie will form her opinions the same way you and I do. Watch a lot of games on TV, absorb and digest all the ESPN propaganda, wade through some newspaper, magazine, and blog material, and come up with an opinion. Unlike you and I, she might be able to call Robin Roberts or Pam Ward, or maybe Wes Durham and get some advice and insight.
Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau
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But the transitive property does not exist in college football. It is basically impossible to avoid doing it, we all try it, but it is a fantasy.
jeffgt14
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I agree but when you are ranking a bunch of 1 loss teams, the only thing you can go by is who they’ve beaten and who they’ve lost to.
zhavenor
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Actually it doesn't. Use a committee to determine the 8 best conference champions. To your second point yes. If a team is not the best team in its conference it cannot be the best team in the nation. I'd like to see you argue otherwise.
jeffgt14
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So anytime a wildcard team wins the Super Bowl or World Series it’s complete bull**** and they should’ve never been there in the first place.
zhavenor
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Yes, yes it is. Do you think the Giants were actually better than the Patriots team that went undefeated and already beat them in the last reg. season game. They should not even made the playoffs that year. In 1996 or 1997 Arizona basketball finished 4th in the Pac 10 after playing every team in their conference twice. They were not the best team in their conference and somehow we are supposed to believe they were the best team in the nation because they got hot and lucky and won a post season tournament. The whole thing is a farce that the general public has fallen for. They want excitement not to see who the true champion is.
jeffgt14
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This is absolute nonsense. So what about 2012 when LSU won the SEC only to end up losing to Alabama without crossing the 50 yard line? I suppose Oklahoma State was really the best team in the country that year. Somehow a team that lost to unranked Iowa State late in the season deserved to be in the title game over a team who's only loss was to a team that went undefeated in the regular season. Clearly the Green Bay Packers should've never won the super bowl because the Bears won the division and it was much more fair that the 7-9 Seahawks were in the playoffs because they won their garbage division.
zhavenor
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OK tell me why 2011 Alabama deserved to be on the field in that National championship game. They were not the best team in the conference nor the division. Just answer me and no the end result is not justification for the inclusion. That like judging morality based on results of an action instead of the action itself. You have not given me one good reason to include them other than the result. Also OSU has to this day every bit of claim to that National championship as Alabama does.
Bigb
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Or you know them being 1 of 2 P5 undefeated teams left.
jeffgt14
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If you read my post you would see. A loss to Iowa State is clearly worse than a loss to LSU. That's not even including the fact that Alabama was far and away the better team that day when they lost. Your justification for LSU being the best team in the SEC is because a field goal kicker went 2 for 6? The ONLY reason that Alabama didn't win their conference that year is because their only loss was to the 2nd best team in the conference. Conversely, the only reason that Oklahoma State won their conference is because their lone loss was to the 3rd worst team in their conference. If Oklahoma States loss was to the 2nd best team in their conference, Kansas State would've been the Big 12 champion. You are punishing the team that lost to a good team rather than a bad team.
zhavenor
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The issue is quit simple for me. Alabama was not the best team in their conference nor division. They lost to LSU fair and square, I thought the whole argument of having a playoff was to have it settled on the field it seems you're arguing something different here. You cannot be considered the best team in the nation if you are not the best team in your conference. There is no punishment except for the punishment that they weren't the best team in their conference. Make your argument that they are the 2nd best team in the nation but you cannot that they are number one. Besides OSU should get the benefit of the doubt since they actually played everyone in there conference unlike both Bama and LSU that year.
jeffgt14
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I'm done.zhavenor
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I think I am too. What's the overused cliché "agree to disagree". No hard feelings?
Northeast Stinger
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That match up offended deeply my sense of fairness. Why did Alabama get to have a second shot at a team they could not beat in the regular season? I still do not understand that and never will. After LSU lost the second game I wondered why they did not have to then play a third game sense the series was now tied 1-1. Totally nonsense and a farce of massive proportions. Two teams end up with identical records and with their only losses being to each other but one is deemed better because they won the "magic" game and not the game that didn't count.
jeffgt14
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Yep.
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It's obvious we should be in the playoff because
Methodology:
http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/
Methodology:
http://www.myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com/
Northeast Stinger
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This is brilliant. I especially like how you "deliver" this with a "straight face." But then you are far more logical than those who argue that teams that are beating each other within one division of one conference are the best because they keep beating each other.
Northeast Stinger
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Thanks for the link also. It is the perfect send up to those who have a fundamentalist fervor for thinking transitively about football rankings.
ClydeBrick
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My god, that is a funny site:
About the Transitive Property National Campionship Poll
What is the Poll?
The TPNC Poll was created by the makers of myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com to resolve arguments about the betterness of college football teams. Due to the general lack of polls and opinions, an objective measure was needed to show the relative validity of each team’s claim to the national championship.
What is the Transitive Property?
The transitive property of inequality says that if A is greater than B, and B is greater than C, then A is greater than C. It works when comparing coaching salaries. Fundamentally, when one team beats another team, they are declared better than that team. So, if Team A beat Team B, and Team B beat Team C, then Team A is better than Team C. That is why, after one team beats another team, all pollsters feel compelled to vote the loser one or more places below the winner of the game. It’s flawless thinking, applied to the perfect game: College Football.
But That Doesn’t Always Work!
True. Sometimes the computer has to use “comparative scores” to show clear dominance of one team over another. When one team beats a common opponent by more than another team does, the first team is clearly better. If Team A beats Team C by a wider margin of victory than Team B beat Team C, then Team A is better than Team C. Same goes for losses. When all you have to go on is that games that have been played, margin of victory counts.
Why Does the Poll Sometimes Use Someone Other Than The #1 Team to Compare To?
The ranking uses the highest ranked beatable team. Everyone in the polls ranked above this team is clearly invincible. Fans of these teams should use this fact to state their supremacy with extreme confidence.
How is the TPNC Poll Calculated?
The teams are ranked from the longest shortest path to the highest ranked beatable football team to the shortest shortest path to the highest ranked beatable football team. Seriously. When there are ties, the following tie-breakers are applied:
1) Largest margin of victory
2) Alphabetically
3) Inconsistently
Why Is It Called a Poll When It’s Really a Ranking?
Most people have a rational distrust of computers. They’d prefer to have people involved in determining the betterness of teams – they want people who aren’t burdened with facts or objectivity, people who aren’t distracted by the ability to analyze large amounts of information, people who believe that long-held beliefs and traditions are more important than actual performance, and people who are likely invited by the bowl committees to boondoggles. So we call it a poll hoping that people will trust it.
Why Aren’t There Polls in the First Few Weeks of the Season?
Clearly, computers need actual data to generate a ranking. This poll isn’t trying to predict anything, so it can only use data from this year’s games. If, however, the poll was intended to generate controversy for the purposes of increasing public visibility, it would include the previous year’s data to start the season. That would just be crazy, of course.
About the Transitive Property National Campionship Poll
What is the Poll?
The TPNC Poll was created by the makers of myteamisbetterthanyourteam.com to resolve arguments about the betterness of college football teams. Due to the general lack of polls and opinions, an objective measure was needed to show the relative validity of each team’s claim to the national championship.
What is the Transitive Property?
The transitive property of inequality says that if A is greater than B, and B is greater than C, then A is greater than C. It works when comparing coaching salaries. Fundamentally, when one team beats another team, they are declared better than that team. So, if Team A beat Team B, and Team B beat Team C, then Team A is better than Team C. That is why, after one team beats another team, all pollsters feel compelled to vote the loser one or more places below the winner of the game. It’s flawless thinking, applied to the perfect game: College Football.
But That Doesn’t Always Work!
True. Sometimes the computer has to use “comparative scores” to show clear dominance of one team over another. When one team beats a common opponent by more than another team does, the first team is clearly better. If Team A beats Team C by a wider margin of victory than Team B beat Team C, then Team A is better than Team C. Same goes for losses. When all you have to go on is that games that have been played, margin of victory counts.
Why Does the Poll Sometimes Use Someone Other Than The #1 Team to Compare To?
The ranking uses the highest ranked beatable team. Everyone in the polls ranked above this team is clearly invincible. Fans of these teams should use this fact to state their supremacy with extreme confidence.
How is the TPNC Poll Calculated?
The teams are ranked from the longest shortest path to the highest ranked beatable football team to the shortest shortest path to the highest ranked beatable football team. Seriously. When there are ties, the following tie-breakers are applied:
1) Largest margin of victory
2) Alphabetically
3) Inconsistently
Why Is It Called a Poll When It’s Really a Ranking?
Most people have a rational distrust of computers. They’d prefer to have people involved in determining the betterness of teams – they want people who aren’t burdened with facts or objectivity, people who aren’t distracted by the ability to analyze large amounts of information, people who believe that long-held beliefs and traditions are more important than actual performance, and people who are likely invited by the bowl committees to boondoggles. So we call it a poll hoping that people will trust it.
Why Aren’t There Polls in the First Few Weeks of the Season?
Clearly, computers need actual data to generate a ranking. This poll isn’t trying to predict anything, so it can only use data from this year’s games. If, however, the poll was intended to generate controversy for the purposes of increasing public visibility, it would include the previous year’s data to start the season. That would just be crazy, of course.