CDS Pushing Through Ups and Downs

[forensicbuzz]

Good analysis. Like I've said before the 5 spot is our biggest weakness. Points made and given up in the paint is a big liability. Credit to CDS for alternating lineups trying to find the right mix. We lack the overall quickness also to beat defenders off the dribble. I believe quickness is Kelly's biggest weakness. Given time to set his feet. and 1 second to get set, he is an excelent 3 pt threat. He also rebouns well when near the glass. Overall, there is some good talent here. If we solve the inside problem and keep the excellent players we have , and adding our incoming FR, we should be much improved next year.

Our biggest weakness in my opinion, and apparently CDS's opinion, is that our guys generally put forth inconsistent effort. I see lapses in game-IQ as we play. I see us falling down on Defense. I think CDS's last couple of press conferences were spot on. Our young players are inconsistent in performance, our seasoned players are inconsistent in efffort.

 

[gte447f]

Terry is not a point guard, not even a backup point guard. He’s a shooting guard. If Terry is playing point guard, your team is what it is. CDS is a former nba rookie of the year level point guard. He knows how to evaluate point guards and he places a high value on their necessity. That is still the case in a perimeter oriented offensive scheme. It is not “positionless” basketball.

 

[iopjacket]

Terry is not a point guard, not even a backup point guard. He’s a shooting guard. If Terry is playing point guard, your team is what it is. CDS is a former nba rookie of the year level point guard. He knows how to evaluate point guards and he places a high value on their necessity. That is still the case in a perimeter oriented offensive scheme. It is not “positionless” basketball.

Next season I would guess that Mustaf will fill the point position when George is on the bench. We need some additional 3 point shooting, back court defensive help, and some general bad arse that Terry can provide.

 

[Root4GT]

CDS is still recruiting several PGs for next year. I suspect we will get one from HS or via the Portal.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Terry is not a point guard, not even a backup point guard. He’s a shooting guard. If Terry is playing point guard, your team is what it is. CDS is a former nba rookie of the year level point guard. He knows how to evaluate point guards and he places a high value on their necessity. That is still the case in a perimeter oriented offensive scheme. It is not “positionless” basketball.

We play a 5-out. There is no point guard. That's not how that offense works. Terry is a perfect guard for a 5-out offense. The only thing the point guard does is dribble the ball up the court and initiate the motion. Even with a 4-out, there's no real point guard.

 

[gte447f]

We play a 5-out. There is no point guard. That's not how that offense works. Terry is a perfect guard for a 5-out offense. The only thing the point guard does is dribble the ball up the court and initiate the motion. Even with a 4-out, there's no real point guard.

Uh… no. We don’t play a 5-out, and we very much do have to have a good point guard, and thankfully we have a very good young point guard in George and a veteran in Sturdivant.

Terry is a shooting guard, not a point guard. That’s based on his skill set, not on where he stands on the court.

We don’t play a “5-out”. Watch the games and pay attention to Ndongo. He is a post player. Just because he sets screens at the top of the key does not make him a perimeter player. Increasingly lately, we are even feeding the ball to ndongo on the low post with his back to the basket.

We can’t even play a “4-out” effectively with Claude on the floor with ndongo, because he presents zero scoring threat on the perimeter. When he receives a pass on the perimeter the defense doesn’t even react, and he immediately starts looking for someone to get rid of the ball to. That results in a mismatch with 5 defenders guarding 4 passing lanes, which is asking for a turnover. So instead sometimes you’ll see Claude positioned in the short corner or the opposite, weak side block if ndongo is posted up on the strong side. It’s far from the vaunted 5-out positionless basketball.

Regardless, you still must have a skilled point guard, the demands of which go way beyond just dribbling the ball up the court. Lol, that can be said of every offense in the history of basketball, so obviously demonstrates a lack of understanding of the skills required of a point guard.

Regarding Terry, of course he can be a fine guard in this or any offense because he can shoot pretty well, but that has nothing to do with 5-out, and we still have to have an excellent point guard and that won’t be Terry.

These systems that are supposedly positionless, rely on having multiple players with top end level skill sets at multiple/every position. For example a 6-10 to 7-0 tall big than can shoot 3s as at the level of a good shooting guard and dribble and pass at the level of a good point guard. That is extremely rare. You see unicorn examples of it in the nba, but of course those are the rarest players in the world.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Uh… no. We don’t play a 5-out, and we very much do have to have a good point guard, and thankfully we have a very good young point guard in George and a veteran in Sturdivant.

Terry is a shooting guard, not a point guard. That’s based on his skill set, not on where he stands on the court.

We don’t play a “5-out”. Watch the games and pay attention to Ndongo. He is a post player. Just because he sets screens at the top of the key does not make him a perimeter player. Increasingly lately, we are even feeding the ball to ndongo on the low post with his back to the basket.

We can’t even play a “4-out” effectively with Claude on the floor with ndongo, because he presents zero scoring threat on the perimeter. When he receives a pass on the perimeter the defense doesn’t even react, and he immediately starts looking for someone to get rid of the ball to. That results in a mismatch with 5 defenders guarding 4 passing lanes, which is asking for a turnover. So instead sometimes you’ll see Claude positioned in the short corner or the opposite, weak side block if ndongo is posted up on the strong side. It’s far from the vaunted 5-out positionless basketball.

Regardless, you still must have a skilled point guard, the demands of which go way beyond just dribbling the ball up the court. Lol, that can be said of every offense in the history of basketball, so obviously demonstrates a lack of understanding of the skills required of a point guard.

Regarding Terry, of course he can be a fine guard in this or any offense because he can shoot pretty well, but that has nothing to do with 5-out, and we still have to have an excellent point guard and that won’t be Terry.

These systems that are supposedly positionless, rely on having multiple players with top end level skill sets at multiple/every position. For example a 6-10 to 7-0 tall big than can shoot 3s as at the level of a good shooting guard and dribble and pass at the level of a good point guard. That is extremely rare. You see unicorn examples of it in the nba, but of course those are the rarest players in the world.

I guess you should tell the head coach that he's not running the offense that he said he's running. Sorry to take his word for it over some rando fan on a message board.

Here's a recent interview with him for your listening pleasure CDS: 5-out offense. It's a great Q&A. First question gets straight to the point.

The first question: "Tony Bennett was saying that as he prepared for Saturday's game he thought he could tell that you had brought some NBA concepts with you to Georgia Tech. Is that so , and if so, what were they?" CDS "I, you know, I definitely brought some things [um] from the NBA [um] and it's just as it's going to be evolving thing obviously as I [get] different pieces but just more of a 5-out concept, just more 5-out...more spacing...you need read-and-react kind of guys..."

I removed some of the stumbling space holders to make it read a little more cleanly. Have a listen.

 

[forensicbuzz]

To play the offense CDS wants to play, we need most of our guys to have handles. The fact that Terry can move with and without the ball makes him ideal for this offense. With the right pieces the 5-out motion offense is pretty effective.

 

[Root4GT]

To play the offense CDS wants to play, we need most of our guys to have handles. The fact that Terry can move with and without the ball makes him ideal for this offense. With the right pieces the 5-out motion offense is pretty effective.

It’s been the better part of a year but I don’t recall Terry having a great handle. I viewed him as a good 3 point shooter and a straight line drive guy similar to how Kelly drives vice how George drives into the paint.

It will be good to have him healthy next year with a year of experience practicing in CDS system.

 

[forensicbuzz]

It’s been the better part of a year but I don’t recall Terry having a great handle. I viewed him as a good 3 point shooter and a straight line drive guy similar to how Kelly drives vice how George drives into the paint.

It will be good to have him healthy next year with a year of experience practicing in CDS system.

I thought his dribble drive was much better at the end of the year compared to the beginning. I think he played a lot of point at the end of the year, but that could just be my memory.

 

[gte447f]

I guess you should tell the head coach that he's not running the offense that he said he's running. Sorry to take his word for it over some rando fan on a message board.

Here's a recent interview with him for your listening pleasure CDS: 5-out offense. It's a great Q&A. First question gets straight to the point.

The first question: "Tony Bennett was saying that as he prepared for Saturday's game he thought he could tell that you had brought some NBA concepts with you to Georgia Tech. Is that so , and if so, what were they?" CDS "I, you know, I definitely brought some things [um] from the NBA [um] and it's just as it's going to be evolving thing obviously as I [get] different pieces but just more of a 5-out concept, just more 5-out...more spacing...you need read-and-react kind of guys..."

I removed some of the stumbling space holders to make it read a little more cleanly. Have a listen.

Ok. I concede. Call it what you will, but it still requires a quality point guard. I doubt very seriously you’ll hear CDS saying basketball no longer needs point guards. And Terry is not a point guard, but a shooting guard, and hopefully a very good one if he is playing for GT next season.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Ok. I concede. Call it what you will, but it still requires a quality point guard. I doubt very seriously you’ll hear CDS saying basketball no longer needs point guards. And Terry is not a point guard, but a shooting guard, and hopefully a very good one if he is playing for GT next season.

I think George is good now and has the chance to be really good (All-ACC caliber) handling the ball (traditional PG). Terry can also handle the ball (I agree he's a traditional 2-guard). So can Kelly. With the type of offense CDS wants to run (call it whatever), we need multiple players on the court to be able to handle the ball and I think Terry will be one of those guys next year. In a traditional system, he's not point, but what CDS is running, there isn't a 1-5 out there. So, let's not quibble over position names that aren't really relevant.

 

[spdrama]

I think George is good now and has the chance to be really good (All-ACC caliber) handling the ball (traditional PG). Terry can also handle the ball (I agree he's a traditional 2-guard). So can Kelly. With the type of offense CDS wants to run (call it whatever), we need multiple players on the court to be able to handle the ball and I think Terry will be one of those guys next year. In a traditional system, he's not point, but what CDS is running, there isn't a 1-5 out there. So, let's not quibble over position names that aren't really relevant.

These are interesting conversations. So, if Terry was able to start now, what is the starting lineup? Ndongo, George, Kelly, Reeves & Terry? And then next year with Mustaph & Sutton here?

 

[Jack]

You are right on Terry.I didn't think we would miss his STRONG play this yr but we have.

Terry has more toughness and determination than the other guards. He has it on both offenses and defense. I think he will be a valuable part of the team next year.

 

[Tommy_Taylor_1972]

These are interesting conversations. So, if Terry was able to start now, what is the starting lineup? Ndongo, George, Kelly, Reeves & Terry? And then next year with Mustaph & Sutton here?

I am now beginning to put things together about this team and coach. I heard Coach Stoudamire mention his concept is the 5-out offense. Many of these new basketball terms are unfamiliar to me and most are a spinout of what we ran last century, like the motion offense and the Princeton/shuffle/wheel/flip flop, or Wooden's high post offense. The 5-0ut offense was best explained to me in the Northwestern-Indiana game recently played. Coach Chris Collins is having one of his best years in his 11th year, mainly attributed to running the 5-out with solid guards, a good passing center, and excellent 3 point shooters. This video breaks it down, and shows how several pro teams do it as well. . Northwestern is currently 14-5 and 3rd in the Big10. This offensive pattern does not feature any particular position andis an equal-opportunity for every position to participate and every player to show their stuff by "seeing" the opportunities.

I hear some say our team is young, but actually if you equate it to number of games played by each and then compare it to the teams before 1973 when freshman could play varsity, we would have 7 seniors, 2 juniors, and 5 sophomores playing the minutes this year. This team is not young and inexperienced. They good players and just inexperienced at running this pro-style 5-out offense. This transition period will take a bit of time and filling the roster with players who fit this style. Meanwhile, we will see old dogs (Yellow Jackets) learning new tricks. The named players will shine as they adapt. Very interesting as a former player and coach for me to watch this.

 

[57jacket]

Is Terry love similar to the love for the backup QB? LOL

 

[gte447f]

Is Terry love similar to the love for the backup QB? LOL

lol. It seems so, doesn’t it. A transfer from Gardner Webb who was an average player on a below average/bad team last year. Don’t get me wrong, he did some good things and had some good games, but he was no world beater. Heck, he was no Miles Kelly, and… never mind. I hope if Lance is on the team next year that he balls out.

 

[Root4GT]

lol. It seems so, doesn’t it. A transfer from Gardner Webb who was an average player on a below average/bad team last year. Don’t get me wrong, he did some good things and had some good games, but he was no world beater. Heck, he was no Miles Kelly, and… never mind. I hope if Lance is on the team next year that he balls out.

I agree. Terry is a decent ACC level player but by no means a major difference maker. He would add value to this team but at the margins at most. I wish he had been healthy all year and playing for GT BB as we might have won a game or two more. Thinking we would be an Upper Tier ACC team with Terry playing is a fantasy!

 

[MtnWasp]

Terry finished last season strong, was hitting his stride on O and taking charges on D.

My only comment other than that is that I question whether his decision to redshirt was good for the program. He was back to practicing as we rolled into ACC play and I think he could have made a difference this year so from a team point of view, I do not look on his decision to redshirt all that favorably, at least not at this moment. Maybe I'll feel differently next season.

 

[yjfan]

Well tbh would we be a tournament team if we beat bc and Norte dame anyway?
Unless we finished top 4 I think our fate was sealed after Hawaii/ Florida state where size was the issue.