Brutal schedule / expectations

RickStromFan

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TooTall said:
The 1 great year that Ross produced, doesn't make up for the multiple great years (along with many so so years) that Dodd brought.

I missed the years that GOL took us to the Orange Bowl (2x) or even won an outright ACC Championship.

Point is that it is horribly difficult to compare eras. Bill Russell or Shaq? Marino or P Manning? Maddox or Kershaw? Each era must be graded on its own merit and those in that era that are great, will forever be great. I'm a Jordan fan. Kobe and LeBron will never compare to him in my eyes. But all are great players. Ross, GOL, PJ, Dodd and Alexander are all great coaches.
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Gator Bowl in '99 was the equivalent of the Orange Bowl in 2014. We weren't playing the Orange Bowl's first invites, which were BCS-playoff-bound. We had an ACC co-championship under GOL...and didn't lose it to NCAA infractions. We also had a Heisman candidate that PJ never had. To me, GOL and PJ are very close in comparison, even down to the "Both had terrible defenses and were both great offensive minds".

The one Natty year under Ross was better than anything since Dodd, including both anything that PJ and GOL accomplished. And the Ross Rebuild was something PJ never faced, as he (PJ) was hired into the greatest recruiting class in memory.
 
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JacketOff said:
You’re right. I think everyone would be happy with a winning season. I’ve said I think going 6-6 would be great. Coincidently, both Baylor and Minnesota went 6-6 in the regular season in their second years under new coaches. However, they both had losing records in conference play, and neither of them played 3 CFP contenders throughout the regular season. Minnesota only played 1 team that finished the year ranked (Ohio State), but Baylor did play 4 (Oklahoma [CFP], Texas [CFP ~=~ ND this year], West Virginia, Iowa State). They went a combined 0-5 against ranked opponents. Tech will play 3 teams virtually guaranteed to finish the year ranked, with a good chance 2 of them end up in the playoff. There’s also another 3 teams on the schedule that have a good possibility of ending the year ranked (UCF, UNC, Miami). There’s a chance half of Tech’s games will come against ranked teams.

Going 6-6 in the regular season is very average, even leaning towards mediocre in this day in age when everybody plays 2-3 “buy games” a year. 6-6 is reachable for GT this year, and it would be a pretty major accomplishment, but let’s not act like Baylor and Minnesota just became world beaters overnight, it takes time. This year will provide a good barometer for where the program stands. Next year we’ll see how legit it is.
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Totally agree with you. But, IMO , we need to show noticeable improvement this coming year: 3-9 will not cut it. If we don't win at least 5 games this year-
even better be 6-6 , or above- we will lose some recruiting momentum that has been built.
 

WreckinGT

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JacketOff said:
You’re right. I think everyone would be happy with a winning season. I’ve said I think going 6-6 would be great. Coincidently, both Baylor and Minnesota went 6-6 in the regular season in their second years under new coaches. However, they both had losing records in conference play, and neither of them played 3 CFP contenders throughout the regular season. Minnesota only played 1 team that finished the year ranked (Ohio State), but Baylor did play 4 (Oklahoma [CFP], Texas [CFP ~=~ ND this year], West Virginia, Iowa State). They went a combined 0-5 against ranked opponents. Tech will play 3 teams virtually guaranteed to finish the year ranked, with a good chance 2 of them end up in the playoff. There’s also another 3 teams on the schedule that have a good possibility of ending the year ranked (UCF, UNC, Miami). There’s a chance half of Tech’s games will come against ranked teams.

Going 6-6 in the regular season is very average, even leaning towards mediocre in this day in age when everybody plays 2-3 “buy games” a year. 6-6 is reachable for GT this year, and it would be a pretty major accomplishment, but let’s not act like Baylor and Minnesota just became world beaters overnight, it takes time. This year will provide a good barometer for where the program stands. Next year we’ll see how legit it is.
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We play 3 CFP contenders in 2021 also yet people are expecting that to be the year we bust through and start winning a lot of games. Why is that? Are we expecting the freshmen from the 2020 class to improve so much with one year of experience that we will go from a 4-5 win team to a 7-8 or more win team?
 

WreckinGT

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TromboneJacket said:
Well if Clemson can win the conference and go to the playoffs every year, so can we. Subsequently, since Usain Bolt can break the 100m dash record, so can I.
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We need to give up football if us winning 6 games is as likely as a random guy on a message board becoming the fastest guy in the world. Literally, every team in the ACC has won 6 games either this year or last year (including us) and we are pretending like it's a herculean task.
 
Lotta Booze

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WreckinGT said:
We play 3 CFP contenders in 2021 also yet people are expecting that to be the year we bust through and start winning a lot of games. Why is that? Are we expecting the freshmen from the 2020 class to improve so much with one year of experience that we will go from a 4-5 win team to a 7-8 or more win team?
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It will be year 3
No UCF
 

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WreckinGT said:
We play 3 CFP contenders in 2021 also yet people are expecting that to be the year we bust through and start winning a lot of games. Why is that? Are we expecting the freshmen from the 2020 class to improve so much with one year of experience that we will go from a 4-5 win team to a 7-8 or more win team?
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Because 2021 drops UCF, who is at least on par with any other Coastal team, and picks up Northern Illinois. The Coastal games that seem like 50/50 splits this year (UVA, Pitt, VT) become more winnable next year. This year also will give us a look at what Manny Diaz’ Miami teams will look like in the future, or if MD is even at UM next year. Whoever plays QB in 2021 will more than likely have a full year of experience under his belt, and Tech might have the best backfield in the conference.
 
Jacket in Dairyland

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TromboneJacket said:
What other teams in other conferences under different circumstances did is a poor basis for expectations of our team, and I think demanding a large jump in performance in a year with a difficult schedule is a great way to set oneself up for disappointment.
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He wouldn't be a Tech fan, if he didn't know how to do that.......
 

WreckinGT

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JacketOff said:
Because 2021 drops UCF, who is at least on par with any other Coastal team, and picks up Northern Illinois. The Coastal games that seem like 50/50 splits this year (UVA, Pitt, VT) become more winnable next year. This year also will give us a look at what Manny Diaz’ Miami teams will look like in the future, or if MD is even at UM next year. Whoever plays QB in 2021 will more than likely have a full year of experience under his belt, and Tech might have the best backfield in the conference.
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We already have a QB with a year of experience under his belt, and one of the best backfields in the ACC, along with a healthier and more talented offensive line. UCF isn't unbeatable, they lost to Pitt and a 4-8 Tulsa team last year. We can win now. There is no need to declare defeat before the season starts.
 

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WreckinGT said:
We already have a QB with a year of experience under his belt, and one of the best backfields in the ACC, along with a healthier and more talented offensive line. UCF isn't unbeatable, they lost to Pitt and a 4-8 Tulsa team last year. We can win now. There is no need to declare defeat before the season starts.
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Ok... and I haven’t declared defeat at all. Your previous comment literally asked what would be different about 2021 than 2020. I answered that question and you bring up other points in 2020? That doesn’t make sense.

Graham started 8 games last year after missing spring and summer camp behind the worst OL in FBS in a transition year. I wouldn’t really call that a year of experience. Yes, Tech will have one of the most talented backfields in the conference this year, but Clemson loses Etienne next year, and Tech will have SR Mason (presuming he doesn’t declare for the draft which is doubtful), JR Griffin, SO Gibbs. That’s almost a guarantee to be the best backfield in the ACC in 2021.

UCF at home is a winnable game, I’ve stated that multiple times across multiple threads. Beating UCF has about the same probability to me that beating Miami does. I think next year can very easily be divided into 4 tiers of competition
  • Tier 1 (games that should be wins) - Gardner Webb, Syracuse, Duke
  • Tier 2 (games that could go either way) - Pitt, Virginia, Virginia Tech
  • Tier 3 (games that will be tough to win) - Miami, UCF, North Carolina
  • Tier 4 (games that are almost guaranteed losses) - Clemson, Notre Dame, Georgia.
    • You can interchange some of the tier 2 & 3 games to your choosing, it’s just my view. I’m sure some might view the VT, UM, or UCF games differently
Win the tier 1 games, split between tiers 2 & 3, and that’s a 6-6 season. You’ve moved the goalposts across this thread. You’re saying win now, but also asking why should next year be different. I’ve told you what I think will happen this year, and why I think next year will be better.
 

WreckinGT

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JacketOff said:
Ok... and I haven’t declared defeat at all. Your previous comment literally asked what would be different about 2021 than 2020. I answered that question and you bring up other points in 2020? That doesn’t make sense.

Graham started 8 games last year after missing spring and summer camp behind the worst OL in FBS in a transition year. I wouldn’t really call that a year of experience. Yes, Tech will have one of the most talented backfields in the conference this year, but Clemson loses Etienne next year, and Tech will have SR Mason (presuming he doesn’t declare for the draft which is doubtful), JR Griffin, SO Gibbs. That’s almost a guarantee to be the best backfield in the ACC in 2021.

UCF at home is a winnable game, I’ve stated that multiple times across multiple threads. Beating UCF has about the same probability to me that beating Miami does. I think next year can very easily be divided into 4 tiers of competition
  • Tier 1 (games that should be wins) - Gardner Webb, Syracuse, Duke
  • Tier 2 (games that could go either way) - Pitt, Virginia, Virginia Tech
  • Tier 3 (games that will be tough to win) - Miami, UCF, North Carolina
  • Tier 4 (games that are almost guaranteed losses) - Clemson, Notre Dame, Georgia.
    • You can interchange some of the tier 2 & 3 games to your choosing, it’s just my view. I’m sure some might view the VT, UM, or UCF games differently
Win the tier 1 games, split between tiers 2 & 3, and that’s a 6-6 season. You’ve moved the goalposts across this thread. You’re saying win now, but also asking why should next year be different. I’ve told you what I think will happen this year, and why I think next year will be better.
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I only brought up 2021 because that seems to be the year many think that we are going to turn things around and finally be a competitive football team again. Im trying to understand why it can happen in 2021 but can't happen in 2020. Part of it is just that as a fan, it bothers me to see a great recruiting class, good players coming back, and good transfers and yet we supposedly have to write off 2020 before it begins, completely wasting the transfers who are only here for a year. It doesn't make sense. We have enough talent to beat many of the teams on our schedule. Even if they are 50/50 games on paper, good coaching can lead us to wins in most of those games. I agree that we aren't beating UGA/Clemson/ND next year. Every other game is there for the taking.
 

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WreckinGT said:
I only brought up 2021 because that seems to be the year many think that we are going to turn things around and finally be a competitive football team again. Im trying to understand why it can happen in 2021 but can't happen in 2020. Part of it is just that as a fan, it bothers me to see a great recruiting class, good players coming back, and good transfers and yet we supposedly have to write off 2020 before it begins, completely wasting the transfers who are only here for a year. It doesn't make sense. We have enough talent to beat many of the teams on our schedule. Even if they are 50/50 games on paper, good coaching can lead us to wins in most of those games. I agree that we aren't beating UGA/Clemson/ND next year. Every other game is there for the taking.
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I think if you look at the whole picture, you can see why a lot of people believe that 6-7 wins is the cap for the 2020 team. Yes, this recruiting class was great, the best in over a decade, but the majority of those guys won’t impact the 2020 at all. I’ve been hounding this point, but a lot of the guys who will play significant minutes will still be underclassmen. There’s still questions about the kicking game, and while the OL will be exponentially more talented for game 1 in 2020 than it was for game 12 in 2019, only 2 of those projected 5 will have played together at all. Chemistry and continuity is huge for an offensive line. Even with that “issue” I still think GTs OL goes from 130th to at least around 50 or so, maybe higher.

Believing the team will win 6 games isn’t saying there’s not enough talent to win more games, nor is it saying the coaching staff is failing because they can’t win more. Again, most of the time, year 3 or 4 is where on field results begin to show up after a coaching change. The culture of the team still has to change. I think a lot of people get confused when someone says the culture of the team changes. It’s not about 404 Takeover and Waffle House culture, it’s about what goes on in the locker room, in meetings, on the practice field, in the weight room, what’s expected off the field, how coaches communicate with players, etc. The 404 stuff is for the fans and recruits, not the players. To go along with a young team going through a transition, the schedule is still very tough. Take somebody like Texas A&M last year. A really good team, probably could’ve won the coastal had they been in the division, but they went 7-5 because they played an absolute buzz saw of a schedule. LSU, Clemson, Auburn, Georgia, and Alabama were their losses. They had at least some chance to win 3 of those games, but when you play 5 top tier teams you have to play your best against to win, you can’t expect to win them all. While UCF, Miami, and UNC aren’t as talented as say, Auburn, they are still as good to Tech as Auburn is to A&M.

Yes, losing 6, 7, 8, or 9 games sucks. It’s miserable for fans, it’s embarrassing, it sucks for the team to live with. But when you can step back, look at the whole picture instead on just a record on paper, you will be able to see where the program is heading. If Tech wins 6 in 2020, I’ll honestly expect 8 in 2021. I think GT is a great destination for transfers also. As long as Brent Key is on staff, I would think it’s pretty plausible to land a grad transfer OL every year like Johnson or Cochran. Someone who can sure up a hole, or just give a freshman time to develop.

Patience is key to Georgia Tech football right now. We endured a 3-9 season losing to The Citadel. That will never happen again. We can endure a 5-7 or 6-6 team this year, because in 2021 and 2022, you’ll start to see the dividends of your patience. At least that’s what I’m hoping for.
 
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WreckinGT said:
We play 3 CFP contenders in 2021 also yet people are expecting that to be the year we bust through and start winning a lot of games. Why is that? Are we expecting the freshmen from the 2020 class to improve so much with one year of experience that we will go from a 4-5 win team to a 7-8 or more win team?
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Yes. Have you seen the 2020 haul?
 
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JacketOff said:
I think if you look at the whole picture, you can see why a lot of people believe that 6-7 wins is the cap for the 2020 team. Yes, this recruiting class was great, the best in over a decade, but the majority of those guys won’t impact the 2020 at all. I’ve been hounding this point, but a lot of the guys who will play significant minutes will still be underclassmen. There’s still questions about the kicking game, and while the OL will be exponentially more talented for game 1 in 2020 than it was for game 12 in 2019, only 2 of those projected 5 will have played together at all. Chemistry and continuity is huge for an offensive line. Even with that “issue” I still think GTs OL goes from 130th to at least around 50 or so, maybe higher.

Believing the team will win 6 games isn’t saying there’s not enough talent to win more games, nor is it saying the coaching staff is failing because they can’t win more. Again, most of the time, year 3 or 4 is where on field results begin to show up after a coaching change. The culture of the team still has to change. I think a lot of people get confused when someone says the culture of the team changes. It’s not about 404 Takeover and Waffle House culture, it’s about what goes on in the locker room, in meetings, on the practice field, in the weight room, what’s expected off the field, how coaches communicate with players, etc. The 404 stuff is for the fans and recruits, not the players. To go along with a young team going through a transition, the schedule is still very tough. Take somebody like Texas A&M last year. A really good team, probably could’ve won the coastal had they been in the division, but they went 7-5 because they played an absolute buzz saw of a schedule. LSU, Clemson, Auburn, Georgia, and Alabama were their losses. They had at least some chance to win 3 of those games, but when you play 5 top tier teams you have to play your best against to win, you can’t expect to win them all. While UCF, Miami, and UNC aren’t as talented as say, Auburn, they are still as good to Tech as Auburn is to A&M.

Yes, losing 6, 7, 8, or 9 games sucks. It’s miserable for fans, it’s embarrassing, it sucks for the team to live with. But when you can step back, look at the whole picture instead on just a record on paper, you will be able to see where the program is heading. If Tech wins 6 in 2020, I’ll honestly expect 8 in 2021. I think GT is a great destination for transfers also. As long as Brent Key is on staff, I would think it’s pretty plausible to land a grad transfer OL every year like Johnson or Cochran. Someone who can sure up a hole, or just give a freshman time to develop.

Patience is key to Georgia Tech football right now. We endured a 3-9 season losing to The Citadel. That will never happen again. We can endure a 5-7 or 6-6 team this year, because in 2021 and 2022, you’ll start to see the dividends of your patience. At least that’s what I’m hoping for.
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Haters gonna hate. His argument is the perfect hypothetical for “if we don’t win it’s the coaches fault” and that’s how he wants to frame it. But the argument is not even disguised well for anyone that’s not naive. Ignore these guys, the future is bright.
 
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