Brains and football

JacketOff

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White_Gold said:
Do we actually know that?

Maybe you can point me to some of the studies you've read. Would love to read up more.
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https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...ou-could-develop-signs-traumatic-brain-injury

People who played contact sports were more likely to have signs of CTE. Nine percent of athletes had evidence of CTE, compared with just over 3% of nonathletes.

The highest rate of CTE was in football players who participated beyond high school: Ten of 15 collegiate and professional players showed either some features of CTE or definitive diagnoses. The likelihood of developing CTE was 2.6 times as high for football players as for nonathletes, the researchers found, but more than 13 times as high for football players who continued beyond the high school level, compared with nonathletes.
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Getting hit by a 200+ pound object repeatedly for 10+ years is not good the brain. Inhaling chemicals is not good for the lungs. I feel like at this point it should essentially be common knowledge that athletes, especially contact athletes, are at a significantly higher risk to develop brain injuries, and injuries in general, than the general population.
 

White_Gold

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forensicbuzz said:
Google Malcolm Gladwell and football. You should get all the references you could ever want.
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Shocker that a rabid communist speaks poorly of a sport that is ingrained in the fabric of America without concrete evidence. Malcolm Gladwell is oft misguided at best and intentionally subversive to American ideals at worst. His words are crack for people that don't care to actually get into the weeds of whatever the subject is but want to promulgate their intellect.
 

White_Gold

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JacketOff said:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...ou-could-develop-signs-traumatic-brain-injury



Getting hit by a 200+ pound object repeatedly for 10+ years is not good the brain. Inhaling chemicals is not good for the lungs. I feel like at this point it should essentially be common knowledge that athletes, especially contact athletes, are at a significantly higher risk to develop brain injuries, and injuries in general, than the general population.
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Yep, quite familiar with that study by Dr. Bienik

From the article you posted:
“Most of the research on CTE so far has been done in highly selected [groups] of people with generally very high levels of exposure to head trauma.”

"Neuropathologist Daniel Perl of the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Maryland, also cautions that many of the brains in the study show only mild signs of CTE and should not be conflated with more extreme signs seen in professional football players’ brains. “I think we have to be very careful how we interpret this study and others like it.” "
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Seems to me like there are still numerous questions about the pathology of CTE, I'll defer to you though since you seem to know more than neuropathologists.
 

JacketOff

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White_Gold said:
Yep, quite familiar with that study by Dr. Bienik

From the article you posted:
“Most of the research on CTE so far has been done in highly selected [groups] of people with generally very high levels of exposure to head trauma.”

"Neuropathologist Daniel Perl of the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Maryland, also cautions that many of the brains in the study show only mild signs of CTE and should not be conflated with more extreme signs seen in professional football players’ brains. “I think we have to be very careful how we interpret this study and others like it.” "
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Seems to me like there are still numerous questions about the pathology of CTE, I'll defer to you though since you seem to know more than neuropathologists.
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That quote you pulled literally mentions how most of the brains from the general population pool only showed mild signs of CTE, compared to significant showings in professional football players. Also, I’m sure the rate of CTE among the general population is probably higher than what these studies can show, simply because if the person’s brain their examining never reported any symptoms of neurological degeneration, there is probably a much lower chance the brain would be donated to the research facility. But in this study, if you tripled the rate for the general population, and cut the football rate in half, it’s still 33% compared to 9%.

Also, can you explain why you seem to want to deny the significant risk that football players put their brains under in their post-playing lives? Do you honestly believe repeating violent collisions don’t cause *some* neurological breakdown? Even if it’s not as significant as what some are making it out to be? The brain is not meant to rattle around the skull. Pitchers’ elbows aren’t meant to create the whip and withstand the force of throwing a baseball 100 MPH. Basketball players’ knees aren’t meant to support quick cuts and stop-and-go movements. Playing sports puts the body at risk for injury.
 
DeepSnap

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yeti92 said:
I could be wrong, but I don't hear too much about lineman getting concussions, but I've seen plenty of 6 ft 185 lb DB's get their clock cleaned.
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You obviously never played on the OL or DL.

One of my roomies was what is known as a "head blocker," used his head to get in & under DLs & today has the slurred speech, impaired thought processes, et al, but fortunately no violent tendencies. He knows of at least a handful of times he had concussions in ball games.

In the 1969 Tennessee game on their 3-M TartanTurf (AKA Brillo Pad) field, one of their A-A LBs cut me at the knees on a punt & the next thing I knew one of our trainers was trying to get me to cross the field? Why? I had gotten up and gone to the Tennessee sideline! Had absolutely no memory of the play & had to be told of it.

We had an undersized LB I had to practice against, but what he lacked in size he made up for in hand speed & could deliver a blow to the helmet that made you see stars. BTW, he & his wife are now the team chaplains for the Miami Heat, Dolphins & Hurricanes. A great guy, but he could ring your bell.

My DL brethren can tell similar tales.... it's not just QBs, RBs, WRs or DBs (like the late Gary Faulkner) who get concussions.
 

takethepoints

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White_Gold said:
Do we actually know that?

Maybe you can point me to some of the studies you've read. Would love to read up more.
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The links in the original post go to some. And, no, we don't actually know that contact sports cause CTE conclusively. I was making the argument of the doctor in the post, not my own. It'll take some really take some careful studies over time to pars out the actual effects.
 

White_Gold

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JacketOff said:
That quote you pulled literally mentions how most of the brains from the general population pool only showed mild signs of CTE, compared to significant showings in professional football players. Also, I’m sure the rate of CTE among the general population is probably higher than what these studies can show, simply because if the person’s brain their examining never reported any symptoms of neurological degeneration, there is probably a much lower chance the brain would be donated to the research facility. But in this study, if you tripled the rate for the general population, and cut the football rate in half, it’s still 33% compared to 9%.

Also, can you explain why you seem to want to deny the significant risk that football players put their brains under in their post-playing lives? Do you honestly believe repeating violent collisions don’t cause *some* neurological breakdown? Even if it’s not as significant as what some are making it out to be? The brain is not meant to rattle around the skull. Pitchers’ elbows aren’t meant to create the whip and withstand the force of throwing a baseball 100 MPH. Basketball players’ knees aren’t meant to support quick cuts and stop-and-go movements. Playing sports puts the body at risk for injury.
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I'm more of a hater of bad science and manufactured outrage vs. not believing that head collisions can cause trauma to the brain. My point is that people, including you, say they are inextricably linked like smoking and lung cancer and well...they're not!
 

bke1984

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Simple solution. If you’re worried then don’t play. It’s dangerous. It was designed to be dangerous. People like it because it’s dangerous. Anyone who tells themselves pads make it safe or believes that they do is just plain naive.
 
forensicbuzz

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White_Gold said:
Shocker that a rabid communist speaks poorly of a sport that is ingrained in the fabric of America without concrete evidence. Malcolm Gladwell is oft misguided at best and intentionally subversive to American ideals at worst. His words are crack for people that don't care to actually get into the weeds of whatever the subject is but want to promulgate their intellect.
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Actually, from what I've heard in interviews with him, he's not anti-football, just anti-CTE. He claims to be all for finding a way to save the sport in a way that doesn't endanger the players' lives. Although I don't agree with his politics, in general, I find him very thought-provoking. He makes good points about current issues that I wouldn't think would come from someone with his political leanings and isn't dogmatic in his opinions. He's not opposed to being convinced that what he thought was wrong, and is often willing to admit it.
 

yeti92

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DeepSnap said:
You obviously never played on the OL or DL.

One of my roomies was what is known as a "head blocker," used his head to get in & under DLs & today has the slurred speech, impaired thought processes, et al, but fortunately no violent tendencies. He knows of at least a handful of times he had concussions in ball games.

In the 1969 Tennessee game on their 3-M TartanTurf (AKA Brillo Pad) field, one of their A-A LBs cut me at the knees on a punt & the next thing I knew one of our trainers was trying to get me to cross the field? Why? I had gotten up and gone to the Tennessee sideline! Had absolutely no memory of the play & had to be told of it.

We had an undersized LB I had to practice against, but what he lacked in size he made up for in hand speed & could deliver a blow to the helmet that made you see stars. BTW, he & his wife are now the team chaplains for the Miami Heat, Dolphins & Hurricanes. A great guy, but he could ring your bell.

My DL brethren can tell similar tales.... it's not just QBs, RBs, WRs or DBs (like the late Gary Faulkner) who get concussions.
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I didn't say its just skill position guys who get them, I said relatively you hear about them a lot more with those guys. I also haven't been alive since the 1950s so you'll have to forgive me for not considering your anecdotes from a time when seatbelts even being in cars was optional.
 
BainbridgeJacket

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yeti92 said:
I didn't say its just skill position guys who get them, I said relatively you hear about them a lot more with those guys. I also haven't been alive since the 1950s so you'll have to forgive me for not considering your anecdotes from a time when seatbelts even being in cars was optional.
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I don't know man, every time I've heard about brain damage it's been some caveat about the repeated blows of line play being worse than the big hits that knock people out cold occasionally.
 

takethepoints

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It was only a matter of time before Aaron Carroll got in on this. See:

https://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/how-risky-are-kids-sports/

As usual, Carroll gives a serious overview of the latest research reviews on these questions, with a particular emphasis on youth sports. Short Aaron: we need more research on many of the important questions. No surprise there. I was a little surprised to find that there isn't much evidence that mouthguards have much effect. I sure wouldn't have played without one.
 
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