Bowling Green Post Game... šŸ˜¢

wvGT11

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,198
Got some sleep and have some more clear thoughts.

Our defense is just awful. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on scheme, but our LB's and DB's look like they're trying to keep everything in front of them most of the time. Then when they go aggressive they either take terrible angles and get beat on the edge or just whiff on the tackles. I'm not sure what our strategy is on this side of the ball, but it seems like we're just waiting until we get another player with instincts like Charlie Thomas that will just make every play. This game reminded me of some of the defenses we rolled out with Al Groh in 2012. The Wake game appears to be an outlier.

Haynes King had a really bad game after the first two drives. He was off the mark on his passes and missing reads on the option that would have sprung him huge gains. The first INT should have been a huge gain...instead it resulted in six points going the other way (I don't even want to talk about the attempts to tackle this guy after he makes the pick).

We have a serious culture problem with this team. The ceiling is as high as it's been since 2018, but they just don't seem to be motivated. If we get down we don't really adjust and if we get a lead we just let up once it pushes to two scores. There's no killer instinct. Key stresses toughness and playing hard, but then you get a showing like this that has you scratching your head and wondering if they players get it.

It's still just one game, and while it seems impossible I wouldn't be all that surprised if we went to Miami next week and looked like an entirely different team and pulled the upset.
This game reminds me of the citadel game or even temple. Games that should have been easy wins, turned a disaster. Under Collins, we all hoped that those would have been wake up calls for both players and staff , and wasn't

From here, it's about how the staff and players respond.
If key can change things and turn things around this week, we can be ok

Right now, yeah the offense had a **** game, but I'm chalking that up to a fluke

Aside from a glimmer that we saw at wake, the defense has been horrid all season. How is tackling this big of an issue and not getting fixed ?
Is this an assistant issue below Thacker or is it Thacker ?

Anyone notice yesterday how Key started distancing himself from Thacker at the game ?
 

stinger 1957

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,325
Someone on here mentioned that they need to fire Thacker and make Sherrer the DC and I agree with this. The kids were confused and the team moral going forward is at stake IMO. J Batt and Angel need to get the money together and get it done NOW! Cannot afford to wait. Our problems are rooted in the money problem IMO, somehow get that fixed and then you solve a fundamental problem in fixing the rest of it. I believe Angel and J Batt fully understand this.
My guess? Thacker gets fired and Sherrer takes over the defense for the rest of the year to see if he can get it done just like they did with Key. It always was a question in my mind just how and why the Sherrer hire was done. If he makes it work they save the defensive recruits and maybe add a little to it. He presently is the co DC. They go to Miami and win. There were comments in the CBK pressers this last week that caught my attention and made me say what is going on possibly.
We'll see what happens, but something needs to happen now, do not wait Angel and J Batt, get the money together and just do it! We're at a very critical point in this GTFB rebuild at this very moment IMO.
 

57jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
942
My uninformed opinion is the Thacker D is a bend, don't break type D. AND has too many complicated reads and decisions for players. He clearly needs to be "reassigned ". Key will fix it. I have confidence he will take whatever action is required. This year will be interesting, bowl or not.
 

sgreer

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
397
If Sherrer is the answer why are we not seeing sound fundamental tackling already? Heā€™s not going to magically change anything he could not already influence IMO.
 

Northeast Stinger

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9,675
On the defense, to me it appears we donā€™t have any play makers. This is a defense that requires everyone to play at optimum level all the time without making mistakes, otherwise we get cascading breakdowns. Having just a couple of big play difference makers on defense would cover for the occasional breakdowns and pick up the morale of the whole unit. Itā€™s a weak unit overall. We canā€™t expect everyone on defense to play lights out every game like they did at Wake.
 

AugustaSwarm

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
427
Aside from a glimmer that we saw at wake, the defense has been horrid all season. How is tackling this big of an issue and not getting fixed ?
Is this an assistant issue below Thacker or is it Thacker ?

Anyone notice yesterday how Key started distancing himself from Thacker at the game ?
It goes back even further than this season. Outside of a few games last year and one game this year, the defense is one of the worst in college football. It IS the worst defense in power 5. We have been terrible on D ever since Thacker showed up and the trend is getting worse!

If we are going to blame the players and say "but we lost Charlie and Ace and Keion", then you're telling me that Thacker's defense is garbage unless he has NFL talent. We all know that we're not gonna recruit 5 stars, so clearly Thacker is not the guy for us since his defense requires elite talent.

Personally, I don't buy that argument. I think Thacker's defense is too soft and his play calls are too predictable. Soft coverage + no pass rush + predictable blitzes + poor tackling = worst defense in power 5 conferences.

I agree that how the team responds from this embarrassment is crucial. However, accountability is still your in order. Thacker has been here for long enough with more than enough time to field a decent defense. We're getting worse and it's time to move on. It's likely better to wait for the off-season. Either way, something has to change - whether it's now or in January. If Key can't pull the trigger, then he's part of the problem too. (I say that while loving the hiring of Key and fully believing he's our guy)
 

stinger 1957

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,325
If Sherrer is the answer why are we not seeing sound fundamental tackling already? Heā€™s not going to magically change anything he could not already influence IMO.
He may not be the final answer, Key may not be the final answer but Thacker needs to be gone for team moral if not for anything else. We'll have a better idea by the end of the year if Sherrer can do the job. Who else you gonna put there to do the DC job the rest of the year, I don't see any better alternatives on staff now. Brian Baker never been a DC I don't think. Not sure he wants to be on field full time. Maybe.
 

Southern psu fan

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
294
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Temple ga
Itā€™s one bad game brother. Brent Key has been HC 13 games and he had his worst game yesterday. The other games we lost we were just out manned. Itā€™s going to take time to fix the defense because itā€™s been below average since 2015. Itā€™s going to take a year or 2 of recruiting and the transfer portal to fix it, it doesnā€™t get fixed in 13 games. Weā€™re good enough on offense to win 5 more games and bad enough on defense to not win another game so letā€™s enjoy the season and the wins that do come. Thacker will probably be replaced but we canā€™t fire all the coaches every time we have a bad game. Trust me, the offense will click most of the time but you will have a game where they canā€™t get out of their own way like yesterday. This really makes Ga Tech a dangerous team to play because if our offense shows up weā€™re hard to beat. Be patient weā€™ll win more games this year.

Penn State lost to Temple in James Franklins second year and everybody was wanting him out and I was telling them folks the same thing Iā€™m telling yā€™all, the football program is in bad shape and it takes a little time to fix it and James Franklin got it fixed and I honestly believe Brent Key will fix Ga Tech we just gotta give the man a little time and enjoy the wins we do get. Ga Tech football is in goodā€™s hands with coach Key!
 
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Eli

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Messages
1,507
He may not be the final answer, Key may not be the final answer but Thacker needs to be gone for team moral if not for anything else. We'll have a better idea by the end of the year if Sherrer can do the job. Who else you gonna put there to do the DC job the rest of the year, I don't see any better alternatives on staff now. Brian Baker never been a DC I don't think. Not sure he wants to be on field full time. Maybe.

Sherrer is over the linebackers and they are a disaster #7 refuses to play his assignment
 

Eli

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,507
It goes back even further than this season. Outside of a few games last year and one game this year, the defense is one of the worst in college football. It IS the worst defense in power 5. We have been terrible on D ever since Thacker showed up and the trend is getting worse!

If we are going to blame the players and say "but we lost Charlie and Ace and Keion", then you're telling me that Thacker's defense is garbage unless he has NFL talent. We all know that we're not gonna recruit 5 stars, so clearly Thacker is not the guy for us since his defense requires elite talent.

Personally, I don't buy that argument. I think Thacker's defense is too soft and his play calls are too predictable. Soft coverage + no pass rush + predictable blitzes + poor tackling = worst defense in power 5 conferences.

I agree that how the team responds from this embarrassment is crucial. However, accountability is still your in order. Thacker has been here for long enough with more than enough time to field a decent defense. We're getting worse and it's time to move on. It's likely better to wait for the off-season. Either way, something has to change - whether it's now or in January. If Key can't pull the trigger, then he's part of the problem too. (I say that while loving the hiring of Key and fully believing he's our guy)

To be fair any defense is garbage without NFL talent. Keion White was the only player of the three drafted. Look at UGA they are 114th in red zone defense this year without NFL d lineman at all 4 spots. I am not advocating that Thacker is Kirby Smart but letā€™s be real our best defense in 15 years had 4 NFL d linemen (2008)
 

sgreer

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
397
Itā€™s one bad game brother. Brent Key has been HC 13 games and he had his worst game yesterday. The other games we lost we were just out manned. Itā€™s going to take time to fix the defense because itā€™s been below average since 2015. Itā€™s going to take a year or 2 of recruiting and the transfer portal to fix it, it doesnā€™t get fixed in 13 games. Weā€™re good enough on offense to win 5 more games and bad enough on defense to not win another game so letā€™s enjoy the season and the wins that do come. Thacker will probably be replaced but we canā€™t fire all the coaches every time we have a bad game. Trust me, the offense will click most of the time but you will have a game where they canā€™t get out of their own way like yesterday. This really makes Ga Tech a dangerous team to play because if our offense shows up weā€™re hard to beat. Be patient weā€™ll win more games this year.

Penn State lost to Temple in James Franklins second year and everybody was wanting him out and I was telling them folks the same thing Iā€™m telling yā€™all, the football program is in bad shape and it takes a little time to fix it and James Franklin got it fixed and I honestly believe Brent Key will fix Ga Tech we just gotta give the man a little time and enjoy the wins we do get. Ga Tech football is in goodā€™s hands with coach Key!
You canā€™t really compare Key to Franklin. Franklin took Vanderbilt to a bowl game every year he was head coach. He is one of the best that has proven himself and is now at a place that gives him the resources he needs.
 

stech81

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8,725
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Woodstock Georgia
Anyone who underestimates how hard it is to instill your type of toughness and mindset into a program needs to watch the Untold Florida documentary. Urban makes it very clear how half the team bought in year one and even in year two he was worried he could lose the team after any loss
I agree, look at FSU and their coach Mike Norvell first he didn't want Sims people here thought he was crazy, It took him 2 years to build FSU back . In 2020 they only won 3 games. and to make things worse they lost to the worse team (US) that year. Than in 2021 they only won 5 games. Now can anyone really say at that time FSU didn't have better players?
People it takes time to build a program with your players.
 

Eli

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,507
I agree, look at FSU and their coach Mike Norvell first he didn't want Sims people here thought he was crazy, It took him 2 years to build FSU back . In 2020 they only won 3 games. and to make things worse they lost to the worse team (US) that year. Than in 2021 they only won 5 games. Now can anyone really say at that time FSU didn't have better players?
People it takes time to build a program with your players.
Notre Dame lost to Marshall last year. Despite taking over a program that had won 10+ games a year. No one would claim Marcus Freeman sucks due to that loss
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,800
It goes back even further than this season. Outside of a few games last year and one game this year, the defense is one of the worst in college football. It IS the worst defense in power 5. We have been terrible on D ever since Thacker showed up and the trend is getting worse!

If we are going to blame the players and say "but we lost Charlie and Ace and Keion", then you're telling me that Thacker's defense is garbage unless he has NFL talent. We all know that we're not gonna recruit 5 stars, so clearly Thacker is not the guy for us since his defense requires elite talent.

Personally, I don't buy that argument. I think Thacker's defense is too soft and his play calls are too predictable. Soft coverage + no pass rush + predictable blitzes + poor tackling = worst defense in power 5 conferences.

I agree that how the team responds from this embarrassment is crucial. However, accountability is still your in order. Thacker has been here for long enough with more than enough time to field a decent defense. We're getting worse and it's time to move on. It's likely better to wait for the off-season. Either way, something has to change - whether it's now or in January. If Key can't pull the trigger, then he's part of the problem too. (I say that while loving the hiring of Key and fully believing he's our guy)
I hear you on the defense. The end of last year was a bright spot, relatively speaking. Itā€™s been bad since about 2008ā€“longer than some people have watched the team.

I agree and donā€™t agree about talent levels. I agree that we can and should be able to have a no-name defense. But having two or more players that are game-changers happens throughout FBS and in the ACC. Pitt, Duke, and BC regularly have more players in the ACC first and second teams than we do.

As far as the pass rush, how much is scheme and how much is that a fair group of the 11 on the field canā€™t shed blocks?

^^Well... Some folks have it worse

Letā€™s wait until the season is over, friend.


The focus with comments here is on defense, which is understandable.

But if we make the 4th-1 and score, then later avoid the pick 6 we probably win. Plus how many games do you win running for 69 yards? Then thereā€™s the punt snafu.

Looked like a team loss to me.

Itā€™s fair to pick on the defense. An average defense holds BG under 20 despite the punt snafu and the pick 6.

Itā€™s fair to pick on the offense and special teams, too. Until yesterday, BG had one of the worst defenses in FBS. Worse than us (again, until yesterday).

That punt was an awful play on its own, and a symbol of a team that was not at all prepared to play yesterday. If it was isolated, and the rest of the game was well-executed, then thatā€™s another story. But, it wasnā€™t an outlier in a game that was played poorly.

It was absolutely a team loss. But, if youā€™re going to pick a weakest unit, youā€™re going to have to choose between defense and special teams. After yesterday, even with the punt snap snafu, defense staked a claim as the worst unit on the team.

Itā€™s one bad game brother. Brent Key has been HC 13 games and he had his worst game yesterday. The other games we lost we were just out manned. Itā€™s going to take time to fix the defense because itā€™s been below average since 2015. Itā€™s going to take a year or 2 of recruiting and the transfer portal to fix it, it doesnā€™t get fixed in 13 games. Weā€™re good enough on offense to win 5 more games and bad enough on defense to not win another game so letā€™s enjoy the season and the wins that do come. Thacker will probably be replaced but we canā€™t fire all the coaches every time we have a bad game. Trust me, the offense will click most of the time but you will have a game where they canā€™t get out of their own way like yesterday. This really makes Ga Tech a dangerous team to play because if our offense shows up weā€™re hard to beat. Be patient weā€™ll win more games this year.

Penn State lost to Temple in James Franklins second year and everybody was wanting him out and I was telling them folks the same thing Iā€™m telling yā€™all, the football program is in bad shape and it takes a little time to fix it and James Franklin got it fixed and I honestly believe Brent Key will fix Ga Tech we just gotta give the man a little time and enjoy the wins we do get. Ga Tech football is in goodā€™s hands with coach Key!

Iā€™ve brought up Sabanā€™s loss to Louisiana Monroe, and so have other people. There are other ugly losses that good and great coaches have had. There are also ugly losses that bad coaches have had. Some of the difference might be how the better coaches reacted to that loss.

Saban did say ā€œDonā€™t waste a failureā€ multiple times during his tenure. Key has an opportunity this week to fix things. He needs to be smart, decisive, and probably harsh.

On the other side of things, Tommy Tuberville would blame someone else and fire them. It bought him time, but never fixed anything.

I want Key to be like Saban and not like Tuberville
 
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