Boston College Post Game Thread

[Root4GT]

We’ve had several defensive players make NFL rosters. Fewer offensive players but still some. While we weren’t deep, there has been talent on the team. The greatest scarcity, however, has been both lines, and what we had at DL portalled out.

Feel free to list all our defensive players who actually are more than special team players on NFL teams. I will start with White. You can list the rest.

 

[Techster]

That is simply BS. GT has been talent deficient for years. It has been obvious on both lines of scrimmage for a very long time. White is the only "Good" DL at GT in years. There have been no above average OL in years. Name one above average WR GT has had in years. Who has been a good QB at GT in years? Where is all this alleged talent. It's not in our lineup!

The talent is there, our coaching is just not developing them, or they're transferring out. Ole Miss took 2 of our DLs who would be starting here, as well as our starting CB. RB Jahmyr Gibbs, who was a 1st rounder, went to 'Bama. WR Nate McCollum transferred to UNC. Another All Freshmen ACC WR transferred to South Carolina. Another starting DL went to Arkansas and is now at CO playing for Prime. We've had Sims and Pyron who were Elite 11 QBs as well as 4 stars. I'm sure there are other examples, but those are the ones that pop up on my head at the moment.

You can make an argument that our OL is the most devoid of "star talent" but they've been a lot better.

Even with that talent drainage, GT still has talent composite of #36 according to 247, while Duke has a talent composite of #67, Tulane #71. Louisville #28 and Missouri #25 are ranked higher than us, but it's within a tier, so it's just about even talentwise.

I know some GT fans want to disparage parts of our program, but the talent on our roster is enough to go bowling. GT doesn't have a talent issue against most teams (not named UGA/Clemson/'Bama/factory schools), GT right now seems to have a coaching and talent development issue. Louisville, who we probably should have beaten, got a new coach in just like we did and are one of the big surprises of the ACC and college football.

 

[ibeattetris]

The talent is there, our coaching is just not developing them, or they're transferring out. Ole Miss took 2 of our DLs who would be starting here, as well as our starting CB. RB Jahmyr Gibbs, who was a 1st rounder, went to 'Bama. WR Nate McCollum transferred to UNC. Another All Freshmen ACC WR transferred to South Carolina. Another starting DL went to Arkansas and is now at CO playing for Prime. We've had Sims and Pyron who were Elite 11 QBs as well as 4 stars. I'm sure there are other examples, but those are the ones that pop up on my head at the moment.

You can make an argument that our OL is the most devoid of "star talent" but they've been a lot better.

Even with that talent drainage, GT still has talent composite of #36 according to 247, while Duke has a talent composite of #67, Tulane #71. Louisville #28 and Missouri #25 are ranked higher than us, but it's within a tier, so it's just about even talentwise.

I know some GT fans want to disparage parts of our program, but the talent on our roster is enough to go bowling. GT doesn't have a talent issue against most teams (not named UGA/Clemson/'Bama/factory schools), GT right now seems to have a coaching and talent development issue. Louisville, who we probably should have beaten, got a new coach in just like we did and are one of the big surprises of the ACC and college football.

I've come to believe that outside of the top 10 teams, talent composite has a ton of variance. Honestly, it would be better if talent composite differentiated by position group. Having 4 of the best WR on your team won't matter much if you don't have an OLine that can protect an average QB. Having a stable of elite DBs will only help so much if your DL and Linebackers aren't up to snuff. Having the 40th ranked talent composite where you are truly 40th across the board is probably better than 30th where you are top 10 in one direction and bottom 60 in others. Coaching also goes a long way. Star rating are still NFL projections, and CPJ proved that you don't need NFL bound lineman to block effectively (though they obviously don't hurt either). Finding players that fit your scheme and can be effective in the scheme means more than 2 more inches on a vertical and .1 off a 40 yard dash.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Techster]

I've come to believe that outside of the top 10 teams, talent composite has a ton of variance. Honestly, it would be better if talent composite differentiated by position group. Having 4 of the best WR on your team won't matter much if you don't have an OLine that can protect an average QB. Having a stable of elite DBs will only help so much if your DL and Linebackers aren't up to snuff. Having the 40th ranked talent composite where you are truly 40th across the board is probably better than 30th where you are top 10 in one direction and bottom 60 in others. Coaching also goes a long way. Star rating are still NFL projections, and CPJ proved that you don't need NFL bound lineman to block effectively (though they obviously don't hurt either). Finding players that fit your scheme and can be effective in the scheme means more than 2 more inches on a vertical and .1 off a 40 yard dash.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree. The dispersal of talent to various position groups is just as important as the overall talent composite.

Your CPJ OL example is also important. It shows that we need to develop talent as well as bring them in. I believe CPJ had 2 four star OL recruits in his tenure (maybe a couple more?) in Parker Braun and Shamire Devine, but overall our OL helped us get to a lot of bowl games. They weren't the best at pass blocking, but we didn't pass that much and we were still able to punch well above our talent weight to win us more games than we lost.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

From a talent perspective, GT was better off than all the teams even though our record was bad. That's just coaching. GT still has a talent advantage, but it seems our coaches need to figure it out.

I have to be honest, after four years of people yacking about how great a recruiter Collins was, I’ve grown very skeptical of how much talent we actually have. Just because a player has a certain number of stars by their name out of high school doesn’t mean they are necessarily going to ball out in college. Other than a few players like Gibbs I think the talent on the field was not substantially better than we saw in CPJ’s last year.

Folks can dispute that all they like but results on the field don’t lie. CGC was a lousy coach but if the talent was so much better than previous years then even a lousy coach could get you at least five wins.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I've come to believe that outside of the top 10 teams, talent composite has a ton of variance. Honestly, it would be better if talent composite differentiated by position group. Having 4 of the best WR on your team won't matter much if you don't have an OLine that can protect an average QB. Having a stable of elite DBs will only help so much if your DL and Linebackers aren't up to snuff. Having the 40th ranked talent composite where you are truly 40th across the board is probably better than 30th where you are top 10 in one direction and bottom 60 in others. Coaching also goes a long way. Star rating are still NFL projections, and CPJ proved that you don't need NFL bound lineman to block effectively (though they obviously don't hurt either). Finding players that fit your scheme and can be effective in the scheme means more than 2 more inches on a vertical and .1 off a 40 yard dash.

Just my 2 cents.

Wish I had seen your post first. I was making similar comments.

 

[stinger78]

Feel free to list all our defensive players who actually are more than special team players on NFL teams. I will start with White. You can list the rest.

Why do they have to be more than specialists? They made an NFL roster. You have to have talent to do that.

Just off the top of my head that’s White (DL), CThomas (LB), Eley (LB), JThomas (DB), and Carpenter (DB).

 

[Root4GT]

Why do they have to be more than specialists? They made an NFL roster. You have to have talent to do that.

Really, that speaks to our lack of talent overall the past 6-7 years. Guys who are actual starters in the NFL are the guys who are difference makers in college football. Guys who are bottom roster players on NFL teams were generally solid college football players who get by in the NFL more on effort than talent. They are good players to have on college teams for sure but not the kind of guys who can elevate teams by themselves. Punters and Place Kickers that make NFL teams are actually extremely good at what they do, however their overall impact is less than a great position player in general.

 

[ibeattetris]

I have to be honest, after four years of people yacking about how great a recruiter Collins was, I’ve grown very skeptical of how much talent we actually have. Just because a player has a certain number of stars by their name out of high school doesn’t mean they are necessarily going to ball out in college. Other than a few players like Gibbs I think the talent on the field was not substantially better than we saw in CPJ’s last year.

Folks can dispute that all they like but results on the field don’t lie. CGC was a lousy coach but if the talent was so much better than previous years then even a lousy coach could get you at least five wins.

I have been thinking about this. We don't have many CGC *recruits* who are true difference makers for our team.
LaMiles Brooks comes to mind. Kyle Kennard this year. Malik Rutherford. Zeek Biggers.

Almost all of the other recruited playmakers we had either transferred away, are transfers themselves, are currently injured, or are true freshman this year.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I have been thinking about this. We don't have many CGC *recruits* who are true difference makers for our team.
LaMiles Brooks comes to mind. Kyle Kennard this year. Malik Rutherford. Zeek Biggers.

Almost all of the other recruited playmakers we had either transferred away, are transfers themselves, or are true freshman this year.

I don’t want to call out a player by name but one of those players seems to get beaten every time on big conversion downs if it’s their play to make.

More than I should say.

 

[stinger78]

Really, that speaks to our lack of talent overall the past 6-7 years. Guys who are actual starters in the NFL are the guys who are difference makers in college football. Guys who are bottom roster players on NFL teams were generally solid college football players who get by in the NFL more on effort than talent. They are good players to have on college teams for sure but not the kind of guys who can elevate teams by themselves. Punters and Place Kickers that make NFL teams are actually extremely good at what they do, however their overall impact is less than a great position player in general.

You’re original statement wasn’t this granular. Further, there are good to very good players at the college level that never start a game at the NFL level. Steve Spurrier comes to mind. So do Joe Hamilton, Shawn Jones, and Daryl Richard from back in 2008. Happens all the time.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

While I am still pissed at losing this game, and the Bowling Green game, and Louisville game, and the..... I am reminded about how disheartened I felt about GT football in 1988 when I was a Freshman and we went 3-8 overall and 0-7 in the ACC. Then, two years later, we won the National Championship. While I think that type of turnaround is beyond expectations, I am willing to give CBK some time to fix the toxic culture that seems to permeate the program.

 

[Root4GT]

You’re original statement wasn’t this granular. Further, there are good to very good players at the college level that never start a game at the NFL level. Steve Spurrier comes to mind. So do Joe Hamilton, Shawn Jones, and Daryl Richard from back in 2008. Happens all the time.

I will grant you great College QBs don't necessarily make it as QBs in the NFL but can raise a college team to much greater heights than that team would be without said QB.

My position is still GT fans have way overestimated "how talented" the GT roster is compared to the rest of our opponents, less UGA and Clemson.

WE need more talent across the board in the future. Better position coaching would help as well. I like how much better our receivers are playing this year under a new position coach. Only Singleton appears to be a special talent, however, the others have been pretty good in most games. BC was not their best day. Of course Singelton didn't play in the game which makes a bg difference.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

While I am still pissed at losing this game, and the Bowling Green game, and Louisville game, and the..... I am reminded about how disheartened I felt about GT football in 1988 when I was a Freshman and we went 3-8 overall and 0-7 in the ACC. Then, two years later, we won the National Championship. While I think that type of turnaround is beyond expectations, I am willing to give CBK some time to fix the toxic culture that seems to permeate the program.

Exactly. And I felt at the time, both in 1988 and 1989, that Tech was playing better. I was super psyched for the 1990 season to start as a result.

Though we are in a much deeper hole now, and Key is not the experienced head coach that Ross was, I also see signs of improvement. I hope people can be a little more patient until we see this play out.

Sometimes it looks like some people want to start the drumbeat now for getting rid of Key because they think Tech leadership, as well as the fan base, will not react fast enough if, in two years, Key proves to be inadequate for the task. I guess I am feeling confident that Key will either prove himself as a coach or the administration will act. I did not feel that way with the previous regime.

 

[tmhunter52]

This is encouraging, actually, that there is a road back.

I think we are lost and are not on that road.

 

[stinger78]

I will grant you great College QBs don't necessarily make it as QBs in the NFL but can raise a college team to much greater heights than that team would be without said QB.

My position is still GT fans have way overestimated "how talented" the GT roster is compared to the rest of our opponents, less UGA and Clemson.

WE need more talent across the board in the future. Better position coaching would help as well. I like how much better our receivers are playing this year under a new position coach. Only Singleton appears to be a special talent, however, the others have been pretty good in most games. BC was not their best day. Of course Singelton didn't play in the game which makes a bg difference.

Again, this is very different than your first, rather categorical, statement. Yes, we need more talent. However, we have not been w/o the talent to have done better than we have. I think we can both agree to that. That handful of defensive players is about 2/3 of what we have had on the offensive side of the ball, so it’s been around some, just so little of it in the trenches.

 

[MySouthernJacket]

Last game I will be wasting my time on this year.

Hail Southern

 

[g0lftime]

After half the season is over, it is obvious something needs to change on the defensive side or we should expect more of the same the rest of the season. We have been making QBs look like Heisman candidates.
Maybe we need to change to a 3-3-5 at times or tigher coverages at times, etc. Have we become too predictable in certain situations?Do we need to change to attacking the gaps rather than engage and read? I sure don't have the knowledge to know what changes are relevant but I do know what we are doing isn't working.

 

[bobongo]

Again, this is very different than your first, rather categorical, statement. Yes, we need more talent. However, we have not been w/o the talent to have done better than we have. I think we can both agree to that. That handful of defensive players is about 2/3 of what we have had on the offensive side of the ball, so it’s been around some, just so little of it in the trenches.

We should have done better in the past but in general, I think the talent on the defensive side of the ball has definitely gone down considerably compared to last year or the year before.
We lost a lot to graduation, the draft, transfers, NIL, all that. We're at a low point now on D, talent wise.
Trenches - D+
Linebackers - D-
D-backs - C
But giving credit where it's due, this group has somehow hung around in a few tough games until the 4th quarter before giving way. No depth.

 

[Root4GT]

Again, this is very different than your first, rather categorical, statement. Yes, we need more talent. However, we have not been w/o the talent to have done better than we have. I think we can both agree to that. That handful of defensive players is about 2/3 of what we have had on the offensive side of the ball, so it’s been around some, just so little of it in the trenches.

I disagree with you on this. We have lacked overall talent for at least 6-7 years as compared to our ACC competitors. Our recruting has not delivered the players who are above average in most cases. We clearly haven't developed much talent either. Our OL and DL get pushed around all the time and have for years. CJPs scheme negated the need for physically superior OL for the most part but when he did have physically superior OL his offense kicked ***.

In my view you are simply avoiding trying to name the really talented defensive players we have had the past 6-7 years.