Blocking the MLB

[gtg936g]

https://gtswarm.com/threads/gt-v-vpi-slow-motion-review.8642/


Take a look atbthe 40min mark. I think we attempt to block the MLB with the AB (as discussed by @Longestday), this is right after the MLB caused a fumble.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

https://gtswarm.com/threads/gt-v-vpi-slow-motion-review.8642/


Take a look atbthe 40min mark. I think we attempt to block the MLB with the AB (as discussed by @Longestday), this is right after the MLB caused a fumble.

That is a perfect example of why it takes so long to master the Aback position and when I say master, I mean all aspects. Ike Willis, who is probably our best blocking Aback, takes a horrendous angle on the MLB and gets nothing but heels, not even heels, he gets nothing. What is so maddening is that if he takes an outside, arching track, he meets that MLB heads up which is a much easier cut block to make. If he makes that block, that play goes for huge yards. Instead, it's a big loss. One bad angle is the difference between a 15+ yard gain and a 8 yd loss.

I said this before, of all the Aback losses last year, not counting graduation, Dennis Andrews hurt the most.

 

[g0lftime]

Jeremy Cash must have made a 100 tackles against us last year. I am not sure he got blocked at all in the Duke game. I am sure Duke will try something similar this year with a different player but something they were doing with Cash sure seemed to confuse our blocking last year. The Pitt coach said after last years game that keeping the MLB "clean" was the key to defensing our offense. Once a few teams have had success against our offense, then we will see it over and over again until Paul figures out how to attack it, block it, recruit better players, add different plays, whatever, it will continue to be a struggle. Navy has added some things since he left so maybe he needs to confer with them on some ideas unless he is too proud to do that. Navy beat up on Pitt pretty good last year in a bowl game, and we lost to Pitt at home on a long field goal.

 

[gtg936g]

Cash was the reason we lost in 2014 as well. I can't really take a lot away from him as far as talent goes. He beat the guy in front of him.

Can the AB cut the MLB if he arcs outside the tackle box?

 

[AE 87]

Jeremy Cash must have made a 100 tackles against us last year. I am not sure he got blocked at all in the Duke game. I am sure Duke will try something similar this year with a different player but something they were doing with Cash sure seemed to confuse our blocking last year. The Pitt coach said after last years game that keeping the MLB "clean" was the key to defensing our offense. Once a few teams have had success against our offense, then we will see it over and over again until Paul figures out how to attack it, block it, recruit better players, add different plays, whatever, it will continue to be a struggle. Navy has added some things since he left so maybe he needs to confer with them on some ideas unless he is too proud to do that. Navy beat up on Pitt pretty good last year in a bowl game, and we lost to Pitt at home on a long field goal.

I really don't understand this perspective. How can you think CPJ might be too stubborn to change? He redid his O for Vad. He signalled plays in last year. And thru it all has maintained one of the consistently effective Os. What makes you think that problems in one year mean that all of a sudden there's problem with coaching?

Fwiw, we averaged 8.76 ypp, 9.4 ypc, vs Pitt while Navy aved 6.63 ypp, 5.87 ypc. We had some big negative plays that stalled a few drives, and we couldn't complete passes, but it's not like our base offense underperformed compared to Navy.

 

[gtg936g]

When we get our burners back at AB there will be a lot more X plays on O. There were countless times last year where a step or two meant the difference between 3 yards and 30 yards.

We moved the ball on everyone with the exception of maybe Clemson. We just found a way to fumble or dig ourselves a deep hole with a negative play.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I know it's kind of a chicken or egg situation but the lack of a successful passing game was the downfall to our O last year. Even when not pretty, our passing threat in prior years kept opposing Ds more honest. Our ineptitude last year passing allowed Ds to focus solely on the running game. If we can develop a threat in the passing game all will be well this year. That's actually a fairly big if still.

 

[Longestday]

24:34 has a 3TO I had a hard time calling due to the change of blocking. The AB went for the MLB. I assume it was not a midline because the other AB was keeping a pitch relationship.

https://gtswarm.com/threads/gt-v-vpi-slow-motion-review.8642/

 

[AE 87]

24:34 has a 3TO I had a hard time calling due to the change of blocking. The AB went for the MLB. I assume it was not a midline because the other AB was keeping a pitch relationship.

https://gtswarm.com/threads/gt-v-vpi-slow-motion-review.8642/

Yeah, that's an interesting play. It does look like a Triple since JT seems to be reading the DE, but it's like the AB and playside tackle switched blocking assignments.

The tackle is actually moving to the outside.

 

[takethepoints]

A lot in this thread is about the ABs and rightly so. Our biggest problem last year, however, and, imho, the reason we had such a time getting the O going was that we never got a BB who could consistently run through a first hit on the field long enough to make a difference. We had one - Allen - but he was never healthy long enough to make a difference. If we had had Laskey as a red-shirt senior (why, oh why, Lord, was he returning punts as a frosh?) we'd have won 9 games.

So we went with Marshall. Who was a frosh and made a frosh's mistakes. And who was no Laskey/Days when it came to running through a first hit. I've been on his case about that but you really can't expect a frosh to play like a seasoned senior and, from what I saw in the spring, he looks to have improved.

So why is this so important? Because if you want to keep the MLBs honest and in place, you have to have a BB who will get you 3 - 4 yards a carry even when the blocking goes south. We didn't have near as much trouble blocking MLBs in 2014 and the schemes worked like a charm. This was because we ran the ball up the gut effectively and one missed tackle could mean a big play. So the MLBs stayed put. (Of course, running behind Shaq made a difference too.)

Bottom line: we want our blocking schemes on the trip to work, we need a BB(s) who will carry the freight,

 

[Milwaukee]

A lot in this thread is about the ABs and rightly so. Our biggest problem last year, however, and, imho, the reason we had such a time getting the O going was that we never got a BB who could consistently run through a first hit on the field long enough to make a difference. We had one - Allen - but he was never healthy long enough to make a difference. If we had had Laskey as a red-shirt senior (why, oh why, Lord, was he returning punts as a frosh?) we'd have won 9 games.

So we went with Marshall. Who was a frosh and made a frosh's mistakes. And who was no Laskey/Days when it came to running through a first hit. I've been on his case about that but you really can't expect a frosh to play like a seasoned senior and, from what I saw in the spring, he looks to have improved.

So why is this so important? Because if you want to keep the MLBs honest and in place, you have to have a BB who will get you 3 - 4 yards a carry even when the blocking goes south. We didn't have near as much trouble blocking MLBs in 2014 and the schemes worked like a charm. This was because we ran the ball up the gut effectively and one missed tackle could mean a big play. So the MLBs stayed put. (Of course, running behind Shaq made a difference too.)

Bottom line: we want our blocking schemes on the trip to work, we need a BB(s) who will carry the freight,

So in summary: it is your opinion that because MM made freshman mistakes last year the GT offense, as a whole, couldn't flourish.

Interesting.

That's not even remotely close to being accurate, but interesting none the less.

 

[g0lftime]

Having been a season ticket holder the last 3 years, it sure seemed that last year after loss of Shaq to NFL, we had no room to run the BB option up the middle. The defense was able to stop us at the LOS for no gain or one yard whereas with Laskey/Days they seemed to get 3 to 5 yards every time we needed it. Something was different in the blocking. Maybe Shaq was that good combined with Burden in 2014. Last year, not so much. If D is doing something to stop that first option, then what is PJ going to do to counter it. Otherwise, it would appear we are headed into a mediocre or worse season again this year. Maybe we get the big turnovers on D like we did in 2014 and didn't in 2015. Maybe we get some breaks again like 2014, Clemson QB pulling up lame against us, 5 turnovers by Pitt, MSU defensive coordinator taking a new job just before the bowl game. A lot of good things happened for us at the right times in 2014 including interceptions at the right time (e.g. VT, UGA).

 

[Milwaukee]

I think you're right. None of our ball carriers had a prayer half the time. I think if you asked JT why he was running for his life last season his answer wouldn't be "it was because we didn't have a competent b-back that could break tackles".

That's just silly. Our blocking last year was a dumpster fire.

 

[takethepoints]

So in summary: it is your opinion that because MM made freshman mistakes last year the GT offense, as a whole, couldn't flourish.

Interesting.

That's not even remotely close to being accurate, but interesting none the less.

Yes, that's exactly it.

The whole O is predicated on a successful dive, especially at 3rd and 3 - 4. If that doesn't work reliably, then neither will anything else. When we ran the ball effectively up the middle - like, say, the Pitt game - the O worked. When we didn't - like, say, the ND game - it didn't. And what we never had was a reliable dive at 3rd and 3 - 4; that's why I said that with Laskey back as a red-shirt senior we'd have won at least 9 games. Almost every game was close last year. Not having that drive up the middle made a huge difference. And, yes, this was largely due to the injuries that forced MM into service; with Allen ready every game and teamed with MM (maybe; would have blown a red-shirt) or MLD (more likely; more experience) we'd have done better too.

The difference we have is that I don't think you don't see the O for what it is: a concatenation of parts that all have to function in order for the whole to be successful. This especially pertains to the MLB problem. If we had run the ball all year like we did against Pitt then the whole picture would have been rosier; no problems with downhill MLBs in that game after MM hit a couple of big runs. I'm not saying that all the parts have to be at optimum to make this work. For instance, our BB play in 2011 wasn't all that great, but we did ok in the end. It was top-notch in 2014 and you saw what happened. I hope we get back to at least 2011 levels of BB play next year, no matter who ends up with the ball. If we do, then things will be much better. If not …

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Having been a season ticket holder the last 3 years, it sure seemed that last year after loss of Shaq to NFL, we had no room to run the BB option up the middle. The defense was able to stop us at the LOS for no gain or one yard whereas with Laskey/Days they seemed to get 3 to 5 yards every time we needed it. Something was different in the blocking. Maybe Shaq was that good combined with Burden in 2014. Last year, not so much. If D is doing something to stop that first option, then what is PJ going to do to counter it. Otherwise, it would appear we are headed into a mediocre or worse season again this year. Maybe we get the big turnovers on D like we did in 2014 and didn't in 2015. Maybe we get some breaks again like 2014, Clemson QB pulling up lame against us, 5 turnovers by Pitt, MSU defensive coordinator taking a new job just before the bowl game. A lot of good things happened for us at the right times in 2014 including interceptions at the right time (e.g. VT, UGA).

With the wide line splits, there's no reason we shouldn't get at least 3-4 yds a pop on the dive if the defense is only using it's 4 down lineman to stop it, provided the DE isn't crashing down on the Bback (which would signal a pull anyway) and JT's read is good. This wasn't happening last year and there's no single smoking gun to point to. It's a combination of factors: new Bbacks, loss of Shaq, Abacks not selling the pitch hard enough. I'd hate to try and emphasize one area over another. I do believe we'll be better in all those aspects this year, however.

Now it's a whole other story if the defense is committing other assets to stop the dive like safeties and linebackers crashing line gaps. If that's the case, they should be vulnerable to other play calls. Whether we are able to execute those plays is another bag of worms.

 

[takethepoints]

I think you're right. None of our ball carriers had a prayer half the time. I think if you asked JT why he was running for his life last season his answer wouldn't be "it was because we didn't have a competent b-back that could break tackles".

That's just silly. Our blocking last year was a dumpster fire.

The problem with this is that we had virtually the same OL last year that we had in 2014. We returned three starters and of the two who moved up - Shamire and Joe - one had started part of 2014 and the other had looked good in limited duty that year. In short, if the OL was the problem in 2015, why wasn't it the problem in 2014? Shaq made a difference, but that much? If anything, additional experience on the OL should have been enough of a plus to bring things back to normal.

But it wasn't. The difference was that we didn't have the slam up the middle we had in 2014: two 225- 230 BBs who virtually never lost yardage and had good speed and senior experience. If you notice, that - and all our speed at AB - is exactly what we were missing last year. QED.

 

[Milwaukee]

Yes, that's exactly it.

The whole O is predicated on a successful dive, especially at 3rd and 3 - 4. If that doesn't work reliably, then neither will anything else. When we ran the ball effectively up the middle - like, say, the Pitt game - the O worked. When we didn't - like, say, the ND game - it didn't. And what we never had was a reliable dive at 3rd and 3 - 4; that's why I said that with Laskey back as a red-shirt senior we'd have won at least 9 games. Almost every game was close last year. Not having that drive up the middle made a huge difference. And, yes, this was largely due to the injuries that forced MM into service; with Allen ready every game and teamed with MM (maybe; would have blown a red-shirt) or MLD (more likely; more experience) we'd have done better too.

The difference we have is that I don't think you don't see the O for what it is: a concatenation of parts that all have to function in order for the whole to be successful. This especially pertains to the MLB problem. If we had run the ball all year like we did against Pitt then the whole picture would have been rosier; no problems with downhill MLBs in that game after MM hit a couple of big runs. I'm not saying that all the parts have to be at optimum to make this work. For instance, our BB play in 2011 wasn't all that great, but we did ok in the end. It was top-notch in 2014 and you saw what happened. I hope we get back to at least 2011 levels of BB play next year, no matter who ends up with the ball. If we do, then things will be much better. If not …

I disagree, but it's a fun debate. You can't run through holes and gaps that simply aren't there. You're the only Tech fan I've seen that hasn't acknowledged how bad the blocking was last year. Did you watch any of the games? Our linemen were literally lost half the time, just standing in space while the ball carriers got tackled by 3 defenders. It was nuts.

 

[takethepoints]

Watched them all, intently. And I sometime saw what you were talking about, especially as injuries mounted on the OL and its composition changed.

I also saw many instances of Coach grabbing backs and WRs as they came off the field and obviously chewing them out for running to the wrong holes or missing blocks. I also saw Justin having to eat the ball - multiple times - because backs weren't in the right pitch relationship (happened a lot when we lost our AB speed) or went to the wrong hole inside.

The only area where I thought this was mostly due to the OL and not the inexperience of our skill players was in our pass blocking. But look at the 2014 Orange Bowl passing plays. Justin was running for his life a lot of the time; this isn't anything new. Let's hope we cure the problem in both areas by next September. I predict that a little Nate Cottrell and decent BB play will go a long way toward that.

 

[Milwaukee]

Watched them all, intently. And I sometime saw what you were talking about, especially as injuries mounted on the OL and its composition changed.

I also saw many instances of Coach grabbing backs and WRs as they came off the field and obviously chewing them out for running to the wrong holes or missing blocks. I also saw Justin having to eat the ball - multiple times - because backs weren't in the right pitch relationship (happened a lot when we lost our AB speed) or went to the wrong hole inside.

The only area where I thought this was mostly due to the OL and not the inexperience of our skill players was in our pass blocking. But look at the 2014 Orange Bowl passing plays. Justin was running for his life a lot of the time; this isn't anything new. Let's hope we cure the problem in both areas by next September. I predict that a little Nate Cottrell and decent BB play will go a long way toward that.

Completely agree with everything you stated here. It wasn't just the blocking, we had people all over the field missing assignments of all kinds. I'm expecting the line play to be much improved this year compared to last; hopefully that provides some space for the BB's to get established between the tackles. As you said, the dive opens up everything else, without a doubt it does. We just need to do a MUCH better job at giving MM and the other BB's some room to operate.

 

[Boomergump]

Let's be clear about one thing, the MLB isn't waiting to see what happens with the BB before he fills the pitch lane. A more successful dive would be great, but we are not talking about a read situation here for the MLB. We are talking about an assignment thing. We are not talking about a MLB who doesn't respect the dive and just roams at will. We had trouble with the MLB as his assignment was to flow with motion to the lane and we couldn't cut him to the ground. I'm hearing this sentiment like if the dive is good, the MLB will hesitate before filling the lane and that just isn't the case. Teams play assignments against us, not reads.