Best Returning RB in the ACC

[a5ehren]

Watch this film of JR Revere at QB and AP at BB. Montana was so concerned about AP between the tackles, that Revere hit big plays on the pitch and the pass. Revere was similar to MJ, I think, in athleticism, speed, and passing accuracy. He was solid at reads and pitches, not spectacular.

Having a dominant BB makes a lot of difference. DM shows the same ability that AP had to hit the hold quickly, shed contact and squirt into the clear.

Sure. But AP is probably a top-5 all-time FCS player. Let's slow down a bit.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

Sure. But AP is probably a top-5 all-time FCS player. Let's slow down a bit.

Did I say DM = AP? Merely made a skill set comparison.

Although I dare say that if you put several GT running backs in AP's place on those GSU powerhouses, they would have had similar production. And I'm a GSU grad and AP defender.

 

[tech_wreck47]

Did I say DM = AP? Merely made a skill set comparison.

Although I dare say that if you put several GT running backs in AP's place on those GSU powerhouses, they would have had similar production. And I'm a GSU grad and AP defender.

I agree, AP was a very good D1 talent RB playing on a powerhouse GSU team.

 

[Jacket prime]

it's just worrying about something we have no control over.

I think that's the point of just about every sports message board ever.

 

[MikeJackets]

My top 5 are:

Dedrick Mills GT
Mark Walton Miami
Jacques Patrick FSU
Travor McMillan Virginia Tech
Qadree Ollison Pitt

 

[Skeptic]

edit: and Abacks running routes uncovered up the seams.

Has anybody ever quizzed Johnson on this? because again and again, season after season, QB after QB, it is all too common to see a WR wide open down the middle but the throw goes elsewhere. I am just not sure Johnson's offense allows a lookoff or a progression: just fall back and fire. Once in awhile I get. But with so much predictability, no. I'm sure there are reasons for it, as from what I read even Clemson's Watson may fall in the draft because his accuracy plummets when he goes to a second receiver.

 

[Skeptic]

it's just worrying about something we have no control over. I get what you are saying though, I just don't see the point in saying things about him over and over and over again. It's happened and there's nothing that can change it.

If I had control over it I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

Has anybody ever quizzed Johnson on this? because again and again, season after season, QB after QB, it is all too common to see a WR wide open down the middle but the throw goes elsewhere. I am just not sure Johnson's offense allows a lookoff or a progression: just fall back and fire. Once in awhile I get. But with so much predictability, no. I'm sure there are reasons for it, as from what I read even Clemson's Watson may fall in the draft because his accuracy plummets when he goes to a second receiver.

Many times we see these "wide open" ABs running up the seam after the QB has already started his throw. Since a lot of teams play man coverage on our WRs and ABs, once the DBs see our QB make his decision, they peel off toward the play. Additionally, our pass plays aren't designed to create a stable pocket with 3-5 seconds of progressions. They are designed (as we have discussed ad nauseaum) to keep defenses honest and hit big plays. While some people might hope for long pocket setups and multiple check downs and progressions, that is just not the nature of our passing game, and never will be.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Many times we see these "wide open" ABs running up the seam after the QB has already started his throw. Since a lot of teams play man coverage on our WRs and ABs, once the DBs see our QB make his decision, they peel off toward the play. Additionally, our pass plays aren't designed to create a stable pocket with 3-5 seconds of progressions. They are designed (as we have discussed ad nauseaum) to keep defenses honest and hit big plays. While some people might hope for long pocket setups and multiple check downs and progressions, that is just not the nature of our passing game, and never will be.

Agree, but maybe we should make the aback the primary?

 

[SidewalkJacket]

Agree, but maybe we should make the aback the primary?

If our "primary" route on a pass play is a RB coming out of the backfield running a seam, we aren't going to hit that very often. Those guys get open b/c DBs focus on our WRs outside.

 

[Eastman]

There really are a lot of factors involved. Each play typically does have primary and secondary receivers already based on what the coaches believe should be the best progression. This can be changed as it was in the Georgia game when the same play was basically run again except with a different primary target. Qua (who had been seen wide open on the previous pass) was the target of the second play. Another factor not mentioned is the quarterbacks visibility at the time he looks at his primary target. As the father of a 5'9" quarterback I can tell you that my son sometimes changed targets due to poor visibility to the primary receiver or his ability to get the ball to them under the conditions he was facing.

One other factor is that quarterbacks don't simply make decisions on who appears to be the most open at the moment they are looking at them. They have to anticipate whether they will be open at the time the ball arrives . Many interceptions occur because the wide-open receiver was no longer open by the time the ball arrived.

 

[YlJacket]

My top 5 are:

Dedrick Mills GT
Mark Walton Miami
Jacques Patrick FSU
Travor McMillan Virginia Tech
Qadree Ollison Pitt

I think Mills is going to have a great year next year.

 

[Skeptic]

...One other factor is that quarterbacks don't simply make decisions on who appears to be the most open at the moment they are looking at them. They have to anticipate whether they will be open at the time the ball arrives . Many interceptions occur because the wide-open receiver was no longer open by the time the ball arrived.

Well, sure. There is nothing like a crash course in QB/WR geometry. I buy a partial explanation of quick release -- Clemson has very successful patterns I am told on a one-two-and-out count, and it is why their backup QB threw the two pick sixes two years ago. He held the ball past the count. But I have to say that many times those guys did not just appear open briefly. They were like another area code open all the way.

 

[Eastman]

I would agree that our situation is a little bit unique in that the receivers can often be exceptionally wide open but we also don't typically provide enough time for the quarterback to look around very much. My position is simply that it often isn't as simple as we sometimes make things out to be.

When my son was playing quarterback in high school , our best friend's son was the tight end and initially we sat together during games. Unfortunately, every time my son went back to pass, my friend (whose son was named Mark) would yell "Mark's open, Mark's open!!!" And then expressed frustration if Mark wasn't targeted. It didn't take me long before I was walking the sidelines following the game instead of sitting in the stands with my friend.

 

[Skeptic]

I would agree that our situation is a little bit unique in that the receivers can often be exceptionally wide open but we also don't typically provide enough time for the quarterback to look around very much. My position is simply that it often isn't as simple as we sometimes make things out to be.

When my son was playing quarterback in high school , our best friend's son was the tight end and initially we sat together during games. Unfortunately, every time my son went back to pass, my friend (whose son was named Mark) would yell "Mark's open, Mark's open!!!" And then expressed frustration if Mark wasn't targeted. It didn't take me long before I was walking the sidelines following the game instead of sitting in the stands with my friend.

I think I played QB with this guy as a WR in HS. He's the one who came out of the huddle yelling, "Hit me! I'm open!" Took him six games and no targets to accept that this could be counter-productive.

 

[iceeater1969]

Agree, but maybe we should make the aback the primary?

I agree !
In fact I think qua, o Jarrett, and n Cottrell are faster than any wide receivers. Send them long and slant the WR accross makes the wheel route wide open.

In 2014 or 2013 iirc when we played clemson we burned them w the right ab on a fly route. Later in the game we needed a conversion on a long 3rd down and ran the same play. The safety was all over the long route. A called "button hook" on the four count would been an easy completion. That said if u r in stands , it's easy to see whose open. If you are 6'3 ish , its somewhat do able at seeing whose open. If , however , u are super fast and athletic and 5'-10" ish , it's pretty hard to see whose open.
By way last year our OL has learned to legally hold. In their second year of holding education classes, maybe we could have a regular 5 second pocket.

Add a taller qb ( even though he is not super fast and super athletic) and we could do some pretty exciting things in the passing game.

 

[OldJacketFan]

@iceeater1969

Gotta admit, loved this line!

By way last year our OL has learned to legally hold. In their second year of holding education classes, maybe we could have a regular 5 second pocket.

 

[Skeptic]

I agree !
In fact I think qua, o Jarrett, and n Cottrell are faster than any wide receivers. Send them long and slant the WR accross makes the wheel route wide open.

In 2014 or 2013 iirc when we played clemson we burned them w the right ab on a fly route. Later in the game we needed a conversion on a long 3rd down and ran the same play. The safety was all over the long route. A called "button hook" on the four count would been an easy completion. That said if u r in stands , it's easy to see whose open. If you are 6'3 ish , its somewhat do able at seeing whose open. If , however , u are super fast and athletic and 5'-10" ish , it's pretty hard to see whose open.
By way last year our OL has learned to legally hold. In their second year of holding education classes, maybe we could have a regular 5 second pocket.

Add a taller qb ( even though he is not super fast and super athletic) and we could do some pretty exciting things in the passing game.

A question: I think about 6-1 or 6-2 maxes out this offense. I just don't figure a guy of 6-4 or so can be agile or quick enough for the option game under center. But a lot of QBs top out at 6-2, so there is that.

 

[iceeater1969]

@iceeater1969

Gotta admit, loved this line!

By way last year our OL has learned to legally hold. In their second year of holding education classes, maybe we could have a regular 5 second pocket.

My son made all conference pre season selection at rg by holding. He started hs coaching and by teaching legal holding as ol coach, he is now head coach and athletic director.

His top player coached is offense tackle byron bell of Panthers and now w the Titan. Byron is down from 400+ to 350# ish. Son said he was so strong that all byron did till second year in nfl was hold. He went on a super off season work out program and got contract w titans.
So back to MILLS. Imo we are just scratching the surface w his potential.

 

[OldJacketFan]

A question: I think about 6-1 or 6-2 maxes out this offense. I just don't figure a guy of 6-4 or so can be agile or quick enough for the option game under center. But a lot of QBs top out at 6-2, so there is that.

Cam Newton comes to mind but for the most part I tend to agree. Most QBs 6'3" (true height) or taller are more likely to be drop back statutes.