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Longestday

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Close your eyes and remember how we played Syracuse. That defense did not know how to play the offense.
 

AE 87

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Boomer, Mickey Andrews comparison is spot on. Before the game, the announcers reported the mizzou coach saying that they were going to defend it like the wishbone. Throw in a dadgum, and you have Bobby.
 

Mack

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We talk about tailoring the offense to the players, and I agree to a point, but it raises the question in my mind: what is the right offense for our guys? I am not so sure that Vad would be that great running option out of the backfield. Thus far, when we do, he looks just as bad making reads out of that MESH too (small sample size, I admit). He will still need to make equivalent pitch reads on the edge that he has struggled with in our offense. He has the apparent body type, throwing ability, and speed (last year) to do it. I just don't know. If you ask me (and don't start hyperventilating like I am calling for the 3rd string guy, because I am not) Byerly has made the best reads and handled the deep MESH better than either of our other guys. I would put JT second as far as that goes.

If Vad does improve at option reads, why not leave him in our current scheme? One of his biggest strengths is the speed and depth of his drop. He won't be hurt that much staying under center. It may turn out that we run a lot more deep stuff next year and I will be fine with it, if it happens. However, I want to do it because we prove we are actually better at it and not because it is trendy or fancy.

One of the hardest temptations to fight is seeing a team have a great game and then say why don't we copy what they do? I am still scratching my head over how Missou was lined up. Had they come out like that against the flexbone, GT would have had a field day too. It was ridiculously easy for Allbarn to seal the edge last night. I mean, Missou had 3 DLs all bunched well inside the OTs with every other defensive player at least 3 yards back off the LOS. Blocking angles were so easy to get. You have to go all the way to Mickey Andrew's (FSU) first attempt against us in 2008 (2 DTs crashing the center trying to stop the dive) to see a scheme that stupid. Just close your eyes for a second and think about what we would do against a defense that put a TOTAL of 3 players on the LOS. Most of the year we were facing 6. Obviously, Missou hadn't played against any option in a while and their DC was a little ill prepared with the single week he had. Until this week he had no reason to even anticipate having to make such decisions. Do you think Missou was busily preparing option defensive strategies in the off season? Nobody runs it in the SEC, nobody besides a team that wasn't on their season schedule.
I agree you need some special players to run either our or the Auburn offense but so far and this is not to be a knock on Vad but he is late on his reads and with DL coming on you you have to be quick.I think it could work though.All offenses or most of them still use time renowned blocking rules either the OIL scheme etc and we do have good strength at B back and A back but yes we are dreaming if we think we are as quick as Auburn but Godhigh and Smedley and others can or I think do well with the spread..I think Lee will get better but when I dont know.One thing is for sure he never ran the option that much in HS and may be a little behind the curve.Yeah Mizzou confounded me...so tight and man what fun Auburn must have had with the angles.When I first started ;yrs ago everybody ran the Oklahoma until folks started to spread them out and run right at under sized linebackers..I really expected a four man front with ends dropped off for the sweep but due to the speed of Auburn that may not have helped...wonder how much film work they got ....wonder if they looked at LSU film..........Happy and Merry Christmas
 

gtg936g

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My only coaching experience is with DL and to a lesser extent LBs on a high school level. My first season we faced several option teams, and I was lucky enough to have a set of twins that were great DTs, and I had a couple of servicable DEs. We ran a 4-3 defense most of the time. I watched a lot of film on option teams, and came to the conclusion there are two effective ways to defend the option.

The first is to penetrate the gaps, and try to disrupt the mesh/read causing the QB to make really quick decisions.

The second was to occupy the OL distort the direction of the play with inside leverage, and turn the play toward the run support of the defense.

So, being a young gun slinger I picked method#1. In our first game we faced a 1A team (we were 3A), and that little QB made me look stupid, with inferior talent. So I settled on method#2. I coached my guys to get leverage on the offensive lineman and collapse or disrupt the running lane.

Why did method#1 fail? Well my guys were not disciplined enough, and got out of place to often, taking themselves out of the play.

Method#2 worked because each person had a simple job, and even if the guys could not get leverage the linemen could not scoop and get a hat on the LBs or Safeties.

Now, a lot of people will say you have to play the keep, pitch, and dive. The only special assignment I made was the keep. Early in the game, I assigned a LB to hit the QB every play, even if he knew the QB did not have the ball. Why? Usually a QB that does not like to get hit will start giving or pitching to early, making life a lot easier or the D. Sometimes I would run up against a QB that was a sure nuff man, and loved to take on the hits. Those guys were hard to beat.

With all that said, Mizzou tried method #1, and when that did not work. I think they tried to use their speed on D to fly to the edge, and play a bear front to prevent the dive. The LBs were deep to try to slip the blocks from the linemen. Aint no way this will work against a team like Auburn, and the straight line speed of Marshall, but live and learn.

A note about the gun vs being under center. The farther away the mesh point, the easier it is for a superior D to contain with the leverage technique. When the D attempts to penetrate, the gun is more effective. It was always harder to defend the QB being under center for me, because the mesh was done so close to the LOS that if my guys got out of their lane, it was hard for LBs to come up and make the play. The deeper the mesh/pitch, the better for the D. That is at least my opinion, after defending it for some time.
 
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Mack

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My only coaching experience is with DL and to a lesser extent LBs on a high school level. My first seasin we faced several option teams, and I was lucky enough to have a set of twins that were great DTs, and I had a couple of servicable DEs. We ran a 4-3 defense most of the time. I watched a lot of film on option teams, and came to the conclusikn there are two effective ways to defend the option.

The first is to penetrate the gaps, and try to disrupt the mesh/read causing the QB to make really quick decisions.

The second was to occupy the OL distort the direction of the play with inside leverage, and turn the play toward the run support of the defense.

So, being a young gun slinger I picked method#1. In our first game we faced a 1A team (we were 3A), and that little QB made me look stupid, with inferior talent. So I settled on method#2. I coached my guys to get leverage on the offensive lineman and collapse or disrupt the running lane.

Why did method#1 fail? Well my guys were not disciplined enough, and got out of place to often, taking themselves out of the play.

Method#2 worked because each person had a simple job, and even if the guys could not get leverage the linemen could not scoop and get a hat on the LBs or Safeties.

Now, a lot of people will say you have to play the keep, pitch, and dive. The only special assignment I made was the keep. Early in the game, I assigned a LB to hit the QB every play, even if he knew the QB did not have the ball. Why? Usually a QB that does not like to get hit will start giving or pitching to early, making life a lot easier or the D. Sometimes I would run up against a QB that was a sure nuff man, and loved to take on the hits. Those guys were hard to beat.

With all that said, Mizzou tried method #1, and when that did not work, I think they tried to use their speed on D to fly to the edge, and play a bear front to prevent the dive. The LBs were deep to try to slip the blocks from the linemen. Aint no way this will work against a team like Auburn, and the straight line speed of Marshall, but live and learn.

A note about the gun vs being under center. The farther away the mesh point the easier it is for a superior D to contain with the leverage technique. When the D attempts to penetrate the gun works. It was always harder to defend the QB being under center for me, because the mesh was done so close to the LOS that if my guys got out of their lane, it was hard for LBs to come up and make the play. The deeper the mesh/pitch, the better for the D. That is at least my opinion, after defending it for some time.
Never saw the option Tech runs but ran into the veer and the straight qb option out of the I........What we did was run a four or five man front and put DE three yds outside the OE and angle him in like the old Eagle defense .His job was to get in three point stance and go right off the back of the end or tackle.He hit the qb every play no matter what and we wanted him to make qb pitch earlier than he wanted to.The inside lbs had the dive man usually the FB and corner played the pitch.Lot of times we ran six with wide tack on one side and straight six on the other.We did well until it became speed vs speed.Usually we just tried to contain and hope we got a fumble.Off course our DBS and corners rotated toward the play but speed kills.Man have not though about this in years.............still though you got to stop the dive or you are dead.
 

Boomergump

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My only coaching experience is with DL and to a lesser extent LBs on a high school level. My first seasin we faced several option teams, and I was lucky enough to have a set of twins that were great DTs, and I had a couple of servicable DEs. We ran a 4-3 defense most of the time. I watched a lot of film on option teams, and came to the conclusikn there are two effective ways to defend the option.

The first is to penetrate the gaps, and try to disrupt the mesh/read causing the QB to make really quick decisions.

The second was to occupy the OL distort the direction of the play with inside leverage, and turn the play toward the run support of the defense.

So, being a young gun slinger I picked method#1. In our first game we faced a 1A team (we were 3A), and that little QB made me look stupid, with inferior talent. So I settled on method#2. I coached my guys to get leverage on the offensive lineman and collapse or disrupt the running lane.

Why did method#1 fail? Well my guys were not disciplined enough, and got out of place to often, taking themselves out of the play.

Method#2 worked because each person had a simple job, and even if the guys could not get leverage the linemen could not scoop and get a hat on the LBs or Safeties.

Now, a lot of people will say you have to play the keep, pitch, and dive. The only special assignment I made was the keep. Early in the game, I assigned a LB to hit the QB every play, even if he knew the QB did not have the ball. Why? Usually a QB that does not like to get hit will start giving or pitching to early, making life a lot easier or the D. Sometimes I would run up against a QB that was a sure nuff man, and loved to take on the hits. Those guys were hard to beat.

With all that said, Mizzou tried method #1, and when that did not work, I think they tried to use their speed on D to fly to the edge, and play a bear front to prevent the dive. The LBs were deep to try to slip the blocks from the linemen. Aint no way this will work against a team like Auburn, and the straight line speed of Marshall, but live and learn.

A note about the gun vs being under center. The farther away the mesh point the easier it is for a superior D to contain with the leverage technique. When the D attempts to penetrate the gun works. It was always harder to defend the QB being under center for me, because the mesh was done so close to the LOS that if my guys got out of their lane, it was hard for LBs to come up and make the play. The deeper the mesh/pitch, the better for the D. That is at least my opinion, after defending it for some time.
That was a good read. Thanks
 

Mack

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Hey Boom.......got your point about the offense and Vad..I agree he is not a Marshall but he can throw and is a big kid.My big point is this offense is in my humble opinion High School seniors would rather play the Auburn offense over hours.Lets face it we have not yet got the guys we need to run this offense the way it should be run..Look at Ga Southern vs ours and big difference in speed of read and execution..I can only attest to three guys we had here who went to georgie and were recruited for size and athletic ability to pass block..Cant see a passer in HS coming to tech to throw the football or a gifted WR coming to catch or a running back who wants to run the dive every play.I also do know that one of most gifted athletes Bostic has the speed to get open and think with 13 backs we could do this if we had too.If we throw next year lets do it from the spread and run more of the diamond...of course PJ will do as he wants to and hey,he gets big bucks to do so,but the Auburn spread seems to be very popular in high school football now.Look at GPtv and many many teams play it. Just my take on our offense.To each his own.
 

Rodney Kent

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Let's see Awbarn has played TN, Western Car, Arky State, Arky, Wizzou, Fl Atlantic.............wow such a display of Defensive Stalwarts. Add to that Missy St and Ole Missy, that's 8 mighty fine football teams they've beaten up on. They lost to the only decent defensive football team they've played (LSU) and won a shoot out with Johnny foosball's team. Helluva gauntlet of teams the 'Barn has played to date. With the doggies and Bama left to play the mighty tiggers, war eagles or plainsman (whatever the hell that is) might get through the regular season with just 2 losses. Impressive..........................not

Auburn deserved the right to play in the SEC Championship game. However, it was laughable when many of the SEC fans thought they should jump ahead of Ohio State even if they had remained undefeated. They forget that Auburn was a couple of plays away from losing three games in the last few seconds of both the UGA and Alabama games. As Pepper Rodgers said, "He had rather be lucky than good"!
 

UgaBlows

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ugag mostly did a better job against Auburns run attack in the 2nd half of their game, what adjustment did they make?
 

Mack

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ugag mostly did a better job against Auburns run attack in the 2nd half of their game, what adjustment did they make?
Several things but main thing is georgie when riled can play defense especially on the line of scrimmage..If you simply cut down on the talk on defense you will get results.In my day I would tell dbs "okay we are in zone(didnt use cover terms} lbs take the middle and corners outside and safeties the deep outside"Always had one linebacker to key the deep back in the backfield so we couldnt be screened Now its like "okay when they run trips to the left the willie linebacker is responsible for this and the cornes will roll up with the safety rotating to the deep outside and the off side defensive end will play the flats etc etc etc..........keep it simple and you get results out of folks.
 

ATL1

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I didn't see this in this thread: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10236856/gus-malzahn-offensive-evolution.

I like the option of the WR hitch pass when the DB is playing 10 yards off, or the check to a pass play. I don't know if we can check to a pass play or not--I didn't see anything like that in the old playbook of CPJ on the web (a bunch of them at https://sites.google.com/site/myplaybooks/option-1).

That was a damn good read. Malzahn is an awesome coach and I like how he allows other coaches to have input and how flexible he is with his offense.
 

dressedcheeseside

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Interesting observation I had last night in regards to what different worlds the players on the field come from than the majority of the fans. During the National Anthem, the cameras panned the field and did close ups of fans, cheerleaders, coaches, players, etc. I was struck by how few of the players, nearly zero, were mouthing along with the anthem. Hell, even the cheerleaders and drill teamers and a majority of the red neck fans were doing it. I honestly think they don't know the song. Learning it as a kid just wasn't apart of their upbringing.
 

ATL1

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Interesting observation I had last night in regards to what different worlds the players on the field come from than the majority of the fans. During the National Anthem, the cameras panned the field and did close ups of fans, cheerleaders, coaches, players, etc. I was struck by how few of the players, nearly zero, were mouthing along with the anthem. Hell, even the cheerleaders and drill teamers and a majority of the red neck fans were doing it. I honestly think they don't know the song. Learning it as a kid just wasn't apart of their upbringing.

I noticed how inarticulate players were. I'm sure they are smart kids and I understand the Southern dialect but can teams get speech coaches?
 

Animal02

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I noticed how inarticulate players were. I'm sure they are smart kids and I understand the Southern dialect but can teams get speech coaches?

It has little to do with Southern dialect......you get the same from northern schools......even worse in basketball.......you want articulate speech from a athlete? Watch hockey. :happy:
 

Mack

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Yep Ole Animal is right this is football players speaking not English majors...still remember Steve Spurrier not taking Adrian Petterson who went to Ga Southern cause he had problems speaking...of course his legs did the talking for him for four great years.
 

GTJason

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And the kicker here is most of these kids are COMMUNICATIONS majors! Auburn calls their plays with basically a picture book because the players barely speak the language. I can't remember which school started it first, but when I initially saw that I laughed so hard now it's kind of common. It's like the coach is saying "Dear team, I have no idea what half of you are saying so I assume you don't understand the words coming out of my mouth. Here's the playcall"

PS: I understand the need for non-verbal communication and am even a little critical of how we call plays as it hurts out 2 minute drill, but I'm sure you can appreciate the face value humor!
 

AlabamaBuzz

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It is just sad that many of the students leaving high schools today are LESS ready for actual college curriculum than students in the 60's and 70's......But, it is true.

When high schools started hiring "athletic directors" and paying them much more than teachers, it was obvious where this was headed.....oh well.
 
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