Athlon: ACC Coaches Talk Anonymously (2022)

CEB

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
332
You’re right, it might be worse.
The irony here is what I think we need probably doesn’t move the needle for the evaluations done by the recruiting publications. Not to say we won’t love 4 and 5 star guys but in our current state and with the transfer rules the way they are, is it even realistic to expect to keep them? I want to get to a point where we DO get and keep those guys but right now I think we are better off with mass quantity of solid guys we can retain and develop. Hard to say if we have made strides in that regard or not... and that’s a troubling prospect
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,701
You’re right, it might be worse.
Honestly, I think recruiting was better for the first couple of years, but now the losing is taking its toll.
Players want to go where there's some decent coaching, and moreover they want to have a chance to win.
The NIL is also taking a toll, but recruiting was beginning to head downhill before that became a serious factor.

From the article:
"They've recruited a bunch of guys that other staffs think are overrated. That's fine, you have differences in evaluations, but they aren't a development program either."

I wonder if they only looked overrated because they were so poorly developed.
 

InsideLB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,696
Honestly, I think recruiting was better for the first couple of years, but now the losing is taking its toll.
Players want to go where there's some decent coaching, and moreover they want to have a chance to win.

Agree the losing is taking its toll, but I think far and away the toll is being taken by the perception that this staff won't be here next year. Definitely this is the negative recruiting being used vs us right now.

Only way to stop it is to win. However as a coach in the article said, we are not going to break out against this schedule. We have failed to recruit, develop, and keep talent on the OL and DL. Yes, I know that takes time and I know we are transitioning.

However Collins had his chances to win some close ones last year and couldn't do it. The cluster duck that was our secondary really cost us last year. NIU we win if our secondary has a clue. BC we win. Probably UVA as well. He could have bought himself some time if he'd picked up 2-3 additional wins. But he just couldn't do it.

I like the staff moves that were made, however against the schedule we have with the state of our OL & DL it is just too steep a hill to climb this year. Yet it's a hill that must be climbed. IMO the rebuild will continue under another HC next year.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,701
Agree the losing is taking its toll, but I think far and away the toll is being taken by the perception that this staff won't be here next year. Definitely this is the negative recruiting being used vs us right now.

Only way to stop it is to win. However as a coach in the article said, we are not going to break out against this schedule. We have failed to recruit, develop, and keep talent on the OL and DL. Yes, I know that takes time and I know we are transitioning.

However Collins had his chances to win some close ones last year and couldn't do it. The cluster duck that was our secondary really cost us last year. NIU we win if our secondary has a clue. BC we win. Probably UVA as well. He could have bought himself some time if he'd picked up 2-3 additional wins. But he just couldn't do it.

I like the staff moves that were made, however against the schedule we have with the state of our OL & DL it is just too steep a hill to climb this year. Yet it's a hill that must be climbed. IMO the rebuild will continue under another HC next year.
The losing and the perception that the staff won't be here next year go hand-in-hand.
Hopefully the staff moves will help right the ship. Wish there had been a couple more of those (Key, Thacker). It's going to be an interesting season.
 

InsideLB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,696
Right, I just mean recruits may feel Collins ultimately may win at Tech long term, but won't chance coming here because Collins hasn't been able to buy himself more time.

That's different than recruits thinking GT would not win much if Collins stayed HC. Recruits don't look at things the way fans do.
 

RamblinRed

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
5,079
Right, I just mean recruits may feel Collins ultimately may win at Tech long term, but won't chance coming here because Collins hasn't been able to buy himself more time.

That's different than recruits thinking GT would not win much if Collins stayed HC. Recruits don't look at things the way fans do.
I don't think recruits believe Collins will win here because so far he hasn't won here and really hasn't provided any evidence he will ever win at GT.
That doesn't mean he won't, but all the evidence being presented to the recruits is that the current HC cannot win at GT.

You can recruit on your vision for a program for 2-3 years, after that recruiting is based mostly results. CGC's inability to win more than 3 games for his first 3 seasons basically tanked recruiting.

He has recruited better than Johnson, but not really by alot. Outside of the one class his classes have been just slightly better than the previous regime.

The article may be clickbait (the author is certainly going to put out the comments that he believes will create the most views), but that doesn't mean that coaches didn't make them.

I will say at this point I am just ready for toe to meet leather and see what happens on the field. Hopefully everything that has gone wrong for the program the last 3 years will go right this year.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,341
The most damning statement was that CGC‘s recruiting is no better than CPJ’s, but we all know that is not true.
The statement referencing CPJ was "They're as much of a non-factor on legit talent now as they were under Paul Johnson.". This statement is completely accurate if you take legit talent to mean the higher rated guys in the country. We haven't had a rivals 250 recruit or a top 300 247 recruit since 2020. We raised our floor a little bit. Our ceiling is pretty much the same.
 

Ibeeballin

Im a 3*
Messages
5,801
The statement referencing CPJ was "They're as much of a non-factor on legit talent now as they were under Paul Johnson.". This statement is completely accurate if you take legit talent to mean the higher rated guys in the country. We haven't had a rivals 250 recruit or a top 300 247 recruit since 2020. We raised our floor a little bit. Our ceiling is pretty much the same.

Lol… Nothing about this statement is accurate, but continue on.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,341
Lol… Nothing about this statement is accurate, but continue on.
Feel free to correct everything I said bigshot. Tell us who the Rivals top 250 recruits are that we have recruited since the 2020 class. Also tell us the 247 top 300 recruits. We had one ranked 300th. Every other player was ranked lower than that. I guess you could use Blackstrain ranked exactly 300th as a gotcha here. Boy you got me good on that one if that is what you are getting at or you think transfers are recruits. lol if that is the case.
 

GT33

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
320
I don't think recruits believe Collins will win here because so far he hasn't won here and really hasn't provided any evidence he will ever win at GT.
That doesn't mean he won't, but all the evidence being presented to the recruits is that the current HC cannot win at GT.

You can recruit on your vision for a program for 2-3 years, after that recruiting is based mostly results. CGC's inability to win more than 3 games for his first 3 seasons basically tanked recruiting.

He has recruited better than Johnson, but not really by alot. Outside of the one class his classes have been just slightly better than the previous regime.

The article may be clickbait (the author is certainly going to put out the comments that he believes will create the most views), but that doesn't mean that coaches didn't make them.

I will say at this point I am just ready for toe to meet leather and see what happens on the field. Hopefully everything that has gone wrong for the program the last 3 years will go right this year.
Your first comment/theme hit the nail on the head.

As far as recruiting better than Johnson is concerned, I say no because Johnson recruited approx Top 50th and achieved Top 30-35th results. You can argue doing more with less, but the schematic advantage yielded better results with ostensibly inferior talent or maybe you didn't need talent in as many positions. Collins is recruiting Top 35th, but achieving Top 85th results right now. For him to land in the same place as Johnson at Top 30-35th results, he's probably going to need to raise our recruiting up to about 20th. His schemes & coaching style appear to require much better talent in more positions to be successful.

I don't care what scheme we run. I do believe we need a schematic advantage because GT is not likely to out-recruit the Top 20-35 consistently. We'll always need to overcome that disadvantage.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,389
All this talk the last few years about needing a schematic advantage is true for all teams but for some reason some GT fans have the belief that’s it the end all be all. Listen, I loved Johnson. And if Johnson ran the modern offense he would have been successful. You know why? He’s competent and demands his players are competent. Just like if Kirby or Riley ran the option. There is no magic scheme. But there are coaches who don’t settle for mistake prone football and there are coaches who allow mistake filled football. We’ve had 3 years of watching Collins settle with absolutely no accountability. Sure, he talks about it but we’ve never ever seen it. Throw a pick, get a pat on the butt. Get a penalty, get a clap and encouragement. Miss an assignment, get a hug and sent back in. It’s just been ridiculous. Meanwhile the coach to our east who has way more pressure on him and higher end players has no problem going berserk on a player who misses a play and yanking him out of the game.
 

4shotB

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
3,617
Meanwhile the coach to our east who has way more pressure on him
i would argue that no coach in modern FB really has any pressure on them anymore. Win and getter fatter contracts and/or better opportunities. Fail and take your 7 figure buyout and retire on the beach, play golf and coach peewee FB as a volunteer. These guys are pretty smart at the end of the day but I have to say, succesful or not, they all put in the work. It is not a 9 to 5 gig.
 

GT33

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
320
All this talk the last few years about needing a schematic advantage is true for all teams but for some reason some GT fans have the belief that’s it the end all be all.
Fridge gave us a schematic advantage, probably bigger than Johnson. Tenuta
gave us a schematic advantage. It doesn’t have to be all option, it needs to be something that doesn’t take Calvin Johnson or someone of his caliber to win with, but a handful of 4 stars and a bevy of 3 stars behind them with no quit.
 
Top