Athlete majors (spin-off thread)

[bobongo]

Those things go a long way in affecting who we target in recruiting. Yes, most of it is self imposed, but for good reason and reasons that separate us from most every other school out there.

APR being universal doesn’t mean it has a universal affect. Schools that don’t have simple degree offerings have no where to hide athletes not interested in education. Before APR (Ross, GOL), we could keep knuckleheads eligible in remedial courses for 4 years as long as they didn’t flunk out. Not anymore. UGA just sticks ‘em in Housing or African Studies, etc.

Every time I see cultural studies mentioned as a crip course, it's "African" Studies. Why is that? I know you wrote, "etc." after it, but is there a reason why "African" is always singled out? Every post I've seen denigrating any cultural studies program singles out "African" or "African-American". There are Asian Studies, American Studies, European Studies, and so on, but when it's always "African" that's singled out it rings a sour bell. The fact that these courses were abused by UNC doesn't negate their intrinsic usefulness or importance. African Studies is the study of the cultures and histories of Africa, and are very important to a person's understanding of the world. Indeed, we would be well-served to have diplomats who are educated about African cultures, just as it applies to Asian or European or any other culture. This is a perfectly legitimate field of study, as are all sociological and anthropological areas of learning. Maybe so many athletes are studying African or African-American subjects is that many of them are of that heritage and want to learn more about it. For the majority of people, most any sociological field would be easier to get a degree in than, say, aerospace engineering, but that doesn't mean these courses are not useful or important. Indeed, they are. And it's a bit weird that African-related study is always singled out. Just a little bit weird.

 

[jacobchbe]

Every time I see cultural studies mentioned as a crip course, it's "African" Studies. Why is that? I know you wrote, "etc." after it, but is there a reason why "African" is always singled out? Every post I've seen denigrating any cultural studies program singles out "African" or "African-American". There are Asian Studies, American Studies, European Studies, and so on, but when it's always "African" that's singled out it rings a sour bell. The fact that these courses were abused by UNC doesn't negate their intrinsic usefulness or importance. African Studies is the study of the cultures and histories of Africa, and are very important to a person's understanding of the world. Indeed, we would be well-served to have diplomats who are educated about African cultures, just as it applies to Asian or European or any other culture. This is a perfectly legitimate field of study, as are all sociological and anthropological areas of learning. Maybe so many athletes are studying African or African-American subjects is that many of them are of that heritage and want to learn more about it. For the majority of people, most any sociological field would be easier to get a degree in than, say, aerospace engineering, but that doesn't mean these courses are not useful or important. Indeed, they are. And it's a bit weird that African-related study is always singled out. Just a little bit weird.

Because "racist".

 

[Sideways]

Every time I see cultural studies mentioned as a crip course, it's "African" Studies. Why is that? I know you wrote, "etc." after it, but is there a reason why "African" is always singled out? Every post I've seen denigrating any cultural studies program singles out "African" or "African-American". There are Asian Studies, American Studies, European Studies, and so on, but when it's always "African" that's singled out it rings a sour bell. The fact that these courses were abused by UNC doesn't negate their intrinsic usefulness or importance. African Studies is the study of the cultures and histories of Africa, and are very important to a person's understanding of the world. Indeed, we would be well-served to have diplomats who are educated about African cultures, just as it applies to Asian or European or any other culture. This is a perfectly legitimate field of study, as are all sociological and anthropological areas of learning. Maybe so many athletes are studying African or African-American subjects is that many of them are of that heritage and want to learn more about it. For the majority of people, most any sociological field would be easier to get a degree in than, say, aerospace engineering, but that doesn't mean these courses are not useful or important. Indeed, they are. And it's a bit weird that African-related study is always singled out. Just a little bit weird.

Because of the UNC academic scandal tainted that program to such a large degree. It is simply astonishing to me that UNC did what they did and the NCAA opted to do nothing. Players were showing up on the last day of class, having papers done for them, etc. It has nothing to do with "African" except that program was utilized by the Tar Heels to cheat. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[bobongo]

Because "racist".

If by that you mean to imply that I have a sense of common decency, why, yes. Yes I am. I'll stop being "PC" when I stop hearing the dog whistle.

 

[Skeptic]

Because of the UNC academic scandal tainted that program to such a large degree. It is simply astonishing to me that UNC did what they did and the NCAA opted to do nothing. Players were showing up on the last day of class, having papers done for them, etc. It has nothing to do with "African" except that program was utilized by the Tar Heels to cheat. Nothing more, nothing less.

I believe that in this case the issue was that there was very little if any studying being done in "African studies". Few classes and papers done for the players. I can be wrong because my stomach turned after a bit and I quit on UNC.

 

[Sideways]

Well, it could be the "denigrating references" are due to the studies themselves. Whether they be African, Women's, Gender, or what have you. They don't translate to a good job or useful skills. Sorry to be the bearer of sad tidings but PC just ain't what it used to be.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Well, it could be the "denigrating references" are due to the studies themselves. Whether they be African, Women's, Gender, or what have you. They don't translate to a good job or useful skills. Sorry to be the bearer of sad tidings but PC just ain't what it used to be.

It really depends on your personal purpose for college. Is it career training, or is it a means to expanding your intellect and world view.

Even if it’s the former, one could argue SA’s that desire a career in pro sports don’t require the academic studies as much as they do the athletic ones.

 

[Sideways]

It really depends on your personal purpose for college. Is it career training, or is it a means to expanding your intellect and world view.

Even if it’s the former, one could argue SA’s that desire a career in pro sports don’t require the academic studies as much as they do the athletic ones.

At one time the idea of expanding your intellect and world view was to be sure a noble calling and a excellent idea but the cost of college these days has overshadowed everything to the point of absurdity. I will give three real life examples of people I happen to know personally. One of them is a pleasant young man, well in his early 30s who is a graduate of Alabama with a degree in African studies and recreation (double major I suppose). He is still driving the same car he had in college. and works at the local YMCA to which I belong as a personal trainer. Fair enough, I guess but at age 30 he has begun to suspect that he was sold a bill of goods as he is only making about $11 an hour. How he came to divulge this while we were discussing recruiting I will never know.

Another acquaintance at church has a daughter who majored in some kind of marketing and "international studies" and works as a barista at our local Starbucks for $10 an hour and she is in her mid to late 20s

My own daughter majored in English and struggled through a string of low paying jobs such as Minute Man press until she got a job as an executive assistant to the director of the Atlanta Opera. In essence, she did not find a "good job" until she was 31. All of them lament that they are burdened with heavy student loans and regrets of one kind or another. It is definitely caveat emptor and colleges should own up to it. IMHO

 

[Skeptic]

At one time the idea of expanding your intellect and world view was to be sure a noble calling and a excellent idea but the cost of college these days has overshadowed everything to the point of absurdity. I will give three real life examples of people I happen to know personally. One of them is a pleasant young man, well in his early 30s who is a graduate of Alabama with a degree in African studies and recreation (double major I suppose). He is still driving the same car he had in college. and works at the local YMCA to which I belong as a personal trainer. Fair enough, I guess but at age 30 he has begun to suspect that he was sold a bill of goods as he is only making about $11 an hour. How he came to divulge this while we were discussing recruiting I will never know.

Another acquaintance at church has a daughter who majored in some kind of marketing and "international studies" and works as a barista at our local Starbucks for $10 an hour and she is in her mid to late 20s

My own daughter majored in English and struggled through a string of low paying jobs such as Minute Man press until she got a job as an executive assistant to the director of the Atlanta Opera. In essence, she did not find a "good job" until she was 31. All of them lament that they are burdened with heavy student loans and regrets of one kind or another. It is definitely caveat emptor and colleges should own up to it. IMHO

Son #2 is a university professor. Nine years of college, ph.d. Loves what he does, can't imagine not teaching, researching or writing. He and spouse started out with big student loans, too, at high interest rates, meaning for the first few years they paid them off and contributed little to the economy. That being said he makes a decent living by today's standards and doesn't complain about it, but if one compares salaries, his school's administrators -- who do not bring in a nickel of revenue (and that is what a course offering is for, to attract students who pay the tuition, etc.) and may earn twice his salary, the major reason for the continuing enmity between faculty and administration. This, I gather is a situation not limited to one university.

In my home state the Right argues for vocational training, that not every student or for that matter many of them require intellectual stimulation and opposes liberal arts. Make the decision for them, get 'em a job. The Left argues for liberal arts and the university model: a rounded education in the humanities and arts, exploration of the mind and preparation in learning how to learn.

But neither side addresses the cost of the education, or the damage done to the economy or standard of living when so much of the income goes not to consumerism but to banks for 10 or 12 year old debt.

 

[AE 87]

At one time the idea of expanding your intellect and world view was to be sure a noble calling and a excellent idea but the cost of college these days has overshadowed everything to the point of absurdity. I will give three real life examples of people I happen to know personally. One of them is a pleasant young man, well in his early 30s who is a graduate of Alabama with a degree in African studies and recreation (double major I suppose). He is still driving the same car he had in college. and works at the local YMCA to which I belong as a personal trainer. Fair enough, I guess but at age 30 he has begun to suspect that he was sold a bill of goods as he is only making about $11 an hour. How he came to divulge this while we were discussing recruiting I will never know.

Another acquaintance at church has a daughter who majored in some kind of marketing and "international studies" and works as a barista at our local Starbucks for $10 an hour and she is in her mid to late 20s

My own daughter majored in English and struggled through a string of low paying jobs such as Minute Man press until she got a job as an executive assistant to the director of the Atlanta Opera. In essence, she did not find a "good job" until she was 31. All of them lament that they are burdened with heavy student loans and regrets of one kind or another. It is definitely caveat emptor and colleges should own up to it. IMHO

This AND the liberal arts programs these days don't actually train you to think as they classically did.

 

[JacketFromUGA]

This thread became boring.

 

[4shotB]

That being said he makes a decent living by today's standards and doesn't complain about it, but if one compares salaries, his school's administrators -- who do not bring in a nickel of revenue (and that is what a course offering is for, to attract students who pay the tuition, etc.) and may earn twice his salary, the major reason for the continuing enmity between faculty and administration. This, I gather is a situation not limited to one university.

that's not terribly different from what I observed in the private sector when you get right down to it. I saw some really dull and unimaginative people make solid 6 figure incomes by simply buying into, or pretending to buy into, the latest company flavor of the month. I got out of the corporate world awhile back so maybe it's different now.

 

[Sideways]

This thread became boring.

True. But that is what happens when you allow intellectuals to take over a football forum. Please see to it that this does not happen again.

 

[Sideways]

This AND the liberal arts programs these days don't actually train you to think as they classically did.

No, these majors and others have become centers of indoctrination. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[AE 87]

True. But that is what happens when you allow intellectuals to take over a football forum. Please see to it that this does not happen again.

He does his best

 

[takethepoints]

True. But that is what happens when you allow intellectuals to take over a football forum. Please see to it that this does not happen again.

On college degrees: here's the Ur source on the outcomes of different college majors:

https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/whats-it-worth-the-economic-value-of-college-majors

As can be seen from a quick look at different majors, degrees lead to all kinds of different work. I'm a political scientist. You might think that teaching is where most POLS grads end up. It's actually fifth behind government, finance, professionals services, and retail trade. And when you look at the stats on income and employment, most majors have pretty good results, especially if the kid involved goes on for an advanced degree.

This is based on the 2010 census, so there is no doubt about the stability of the estimates. Also, things are a good deal better now then they were then, right in the middle of the Depression of 2008. So I'd tell all the young people you reference to buckle down and get an advanced degree. The "good" jobs almost all require them (or a big dose of good luck).

Now. see? Nice to have someone who keeps on top of this stuff for you, nicht wahr?

 

[ilovetheoption]

No, these majors and others have become centers of indoctrination. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Sideways]

On college degrees: here's the Ur source on the outcomes of different college majors:

https://cew.georgetown.edu/cew-reports/whats-it-worth-the-economic-value-of-college-majors

As can be seen from a quick look at different majors, degrees lead to all kinds of different work. I'm a political scientist. You might think that teaching is where most POLS grads end up. It's actually fifth behind government, finance, professionals services, and retail trade. And when you look at the stats on income and employment, most majors have pretty good results, especially if the kid involved goes on for an advanced degree.

This is based on the 2010 census, so there is no doubt about the stability of the estimates. Also, things are a good deal better now then they were then, right in the middle of the Depression of 2008. So I'd tell all the young people you reference to buckle down and get an advanced degree. The "good" jobs almost all require them (or a big dose of good luck).

Now. see? Nice to have someone who keeps on top of this stuff for you, nicht wahr?

My daughter had a "advanced degree" and it still took her 8 years after graduation. "nicht wahr" yourself. Economics trumps estimates, census, and just about anything else. You have not refuted my basic premise that college degrees are overpriced and WAY too many people are pursuing degrees of doubtful value.

 

[Skeptic]

True. But that is what happens when you allow intellectuals to take over a football forum. Please see to it that this does not happen again.

That is funny as hell. Seriously funny.

 

[Sideways]

My daughter had a "advanced degree" and it still took her 8 years after graduation. "nicht wahr" yourself. Economics trumps estimates, census, and just about anything else. You have not refuted my basic premise that college degrees are overpriced and WAY too many people are pursuing degrees of doubtful value.

Look I did not intend for this to hijack a thread. I am concerned about too many students going into to much debt to obtain degrees that are of questionable value. The class of 2016 graduated with an average of $37,000 in student loan debt. They have to pay on average $351 a month. For a young person that is some serious dough. No wonder the loan delinquency rate is 11.2% on student loans. Christ in His heaven, some of these people will never be able to pay this. It is one thing to have that debt and have a computer science degree from Georgia Tech commanding serious money it is something else again for a recreation major making $12 an hour at the YMCA.