Arrests coming due to college bball kickbacks

[ESPNjacket]

The podcast from Pete Thamel I linked to above makes a good point. They list a bunch of stuff that has happened at Duke recently regarding players receiving extra benefits (BTW, the housing thing in the exclusive neighborhood we all joke about...well, they joke about it as well), or were part of a bidding war elsewhere but somehow ended up at Duke. As detailed and anal as Coach K is, you would think he would ask questions to get to the root of everything that would potentially blowback on his program. Well, all these things can't keep occuring under your watch and you not know about it. Instead, **crickets**.

It's true, Coach K could have plausible deniability because he hasn't been directly implicated and there's no direct proof he's involved...but given how out in the open shady things at Duke are popping up everywhere, you have to be pretty naive at this point to think Coach K doesn't know things are going on beneath his feet.

I think K told Capel, "Do what needs to be done. Don't tell me what's happening. Ever." And it continues from there.

 

[GTJackets]

I think K told Capel, "Do what needs to be done. Don't tell me what's happening. Ever." And it continues from there.

But does it really matter? Isn't there some culpability with the program you run being "dirty?" Doesn't the NCAA consider it your job to know what's going on and at least hold you somewhat responsible for these kinds of things?

I mean if it wasn't K.

 

[RamblinRed]

SI article on some of the questions Ford's attorney's are planning to ask at deposition

https://www.si.com/college/2020/05/11/duke-mike-krzyzewski-deposition-zion-williamson-lawsuit
Among the specific questions from Ford’s attorneys that were asked of Williamson in a separate filing last week:

• “What was your temporary address of Sharonda Sampson and Lee Anderson (your mother and step-father, respectively) during the time that you attended Duke?”

• “Who owned the house at which Sharonda Sampson and Lee Anderson … lived during the time that you attended Duke?”

• “Fully state all facts that show how Sharonda Sampson and Lee Anderson … found and paid-for the house in which they lived during the time that you attended Duke.”

• “Identify by Landlord Name, address, telephone number, and monthly rental rate, the property that you, and your family lived in during your attendance of Duke University.”

 

[kg01]

But does it really matter? Isn't there some culpability with the program you run being "dirty?" Doesn't the NCAA consider it your job to know what's going on and at least hold you somewhat responsible for these kinds of things?

I mean if it wasn't K.

In a perfect world, that would all matter and Duke would get the penalties they deserve.

But this is not a perfect world.

If we had this system going on, I'm pretty sure lack of institutional control would be on the table.

 

[orientalnc]

Not all Duke fans are defending K. If you accept that Zion's family was turning down offers to play at schools outside of Durham, NC, it is hard to also accept that Duke did not offer anything. Or that Zion's family turned them down.

I am also hearing that K may retire. It is possible he will not be able to coach this season. He is 74 years old and a high risk person for COVID-19. If the NCAA allows teams to practice and compete, there is no way for him to distance himself from players and fans. Until there is a reliable vaccine and/or treatment, these 70+ y/o coaches need to be very careful.

 

[ESPNjacket]

But does it really matter? Isn't there some culpability with the program you run being "dirty?" Doesn't the NCAA consider it your job to know what's going on and at least hold you somewhat responsible for these kinds of things?

I mean if it wasn't K.

Yes.

I was responding to an assertion that you'd have to be naive to think K doesn't know. I gave my best guess of what happened.

Heck, we've been talking about it since they started outbidding Kentucky.

 

[YlJacket]

NCAA seems to put a lot of weight on knew OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN. I don't think they ever really directly pinned the strippers, etc. on Pitino but they blasted him on the "should have known" part. IIRC same with Boeheim. There is going to need to be some really good paperwork in the compliance department

 

[GTRX7]

I'm not here to convince you the $5 bill under your pillow is from your mom and not the tooth fairy.

If you do simple google search on Calipari there's stuff out there. Whether you choose to believe it or not is up to you. At one point you were convinced Duke and Coach K played on the up and up as well. Here we are.

The truth eventually all comes out.

I mean, maybe. In contrast to K, Cal has literally been the most targeted coach by the NCAA and many members of the media (like Forde and Thamel) for well over a decade, yet not really much out there that credibly ties (or even suggests) his direct involvement with much of anything. I am sure UK and Cal are not "clean," but what program is? I just don't see much evidence that UK and Cal have been in the game of incentivizing recruits with cash payments like lots of other schools. And, at this point, why would they? For the same reason I generally assume that Nick Saban is relatively clean, I also assume Cal is relatively clean. His record of winning and getting guys to the pros is unmatched. I am way more skeptical of schools like LSU, Alabama, Missouri, and Georgia getting top 5 recruits (all have in the last 5 years) than I am about UK and Cal.

 

[Techster]

I mean, maybe. In contrast to K, Cal has literally been the most targeted coach by the NCAA and many members of the media (like Forde and Thamel) for well over a decade, yet not really much out there that credibly ties (or even suggests) his direct involvement with much of anything. I am sure UK and Cal are not "clean," but what program is? I just don't see much evidence that UK and Cal have been in the game of incentivizing recruits with cash payments like lots of other schools. And, at this point, why would they? For the same reason I generally assume that Nick Saban is relatively clean, I also assume Cal is relatively clean. His record of winning and getting guys to the pros is unmatched. I am way more skeptical of schools like LSU, Alabama, Missouri, and Georgia getting top 5 recruits (all have in the last 5 years) than I am about UK and Cal.

Are you trying to convince yourself or are you trying to convince us?

Either way, the truth eventually comes out. I've seen enough about Calipari to form my own opinion. If Coach K goes down, I'm pretty sure the house of cards at Nike will go down with him...and lots of coaches will be exposed. Stay tuned...

 

[ESPNjacket]

I mean, maybe. In contrast to K, Cal has literally been the most targeted coach by the NCAA and many members of the media (like Forde and Thamel) for well over a decade, yet not really much out there that credibly ties (or even suggests) his direct involvement with much of anything. I am sure UK and Cal are not "clean," but what program is? I just don't see much evidence that UK and Cal have been in the game of incentivizing recruits with cash payments like lots of other schools. And, at this point, why would they? For the same reason I generally assume that Nick Saban is relatively clean, I also assume Cal is relatively clean. His record of winning and getting guys to the pros is unmatched. I am way more skeptical of schools like LSU, Alabama, Missouri, and Georgia getting top 5 recruits (all have in the last 5 years) than I am about UK and Cal.

My best guess is that Cal is dirty at an SEC football level, rather than the shoe/basketball level, which is more direct. An assistant coach maintains a list of targets and the boosters take it from there.

 

[dtm1997]

My best guess is that Cal is dirty at an SEC football level, rather than the shoe/basketball level, which is more direct. An assistant coach maintains a list of targets and the boosters take it from there.

I'd bet dook figured out this arrangement and with all the rich lawyers and bankers in their dark web of minions, they put the right paperwork in place to hide the trail.

A never ending cavalcade of insidious ****bags.

 

[MtnWasp]

Let's face it, the public disclosure of the specific questions carry a lot of weight of accusation that can influence the court of pubic opinion. Once public opinion starts to turn on someone, game over, man, game over. K was held on a tall pedestal for decades, does he or his Duke want to see that long fall. I'm not saying it will be as severe as Paterno, but maybe somewhat analogous.

 

[lauraee]

Let's face it, the public disclosure of the specific questions carry a lot of weight of accusation that can influence the court of pubic opinion. Once public opinion starts to turn on someone, game over, man, game over. K was held on a tall pedestal for decades, does he or his Duke want to see that long fall. I'm not saying it will be as severe as Paterno, but maybe somewhat analogous.

Would make me happy to see this finally come home to roost for K.

 

[awbuzz]

Even if the end result is that Duke goes unpunished, I take great pleasure in watching those "holier than thou" Dookie fans twist in the wind. I would prefer they get a lesson in "how the other half lives".

Duke won't go unpunished... Their punishment will be served by the likes of Georgia Tech, Boston College, Illinois and the like...

 

[ESPNjacket]

Let's face it, the public disclosure of the specific questions carry a lot of weight of accusation that can influence the court of pubic opinion. Once public opinion starts to turn on someone, game over, man, game over. K was held on a tall pedestal for decades, does he or his Duke want to see that long fall. I'm not saying it will be as severe as Paterno, but maybe somewhat analogous.

K won't go down in flames with flimsy evidence and hearsay like Paterno did. If the K supporters are smart they'll make a comparison to Sam Gilbert in Wooden's golden age and hope it sticks.

 

[Techster]

I think K told Capel, "Do what needs to be done. Don't tell me what's happening. Ever." And it continues from there.

I think once you give the kill order, and your targets start falling, you may not know the details but you know enough that it's being done. You gave the order, you may not have bought the gun that's untraceable, you may not have dropped a bag of cash at the gunman's porch, you may not have pulled the trigger, but you're guilty.

Guys like Coach K and Calipari don't have long careers and are this successful at the highest levels because they're dumb. They know not to pull a Will Wade and get on the phone to discuss anything that can be recorded.

Anyone remember the movie Blue Chips? I imagine the scene where Nick Nolte finally relents and tells the booster to do whatever he has to just don't tell him has played out with multiple coaches across the country. The smart ones just know don't leave anything that can be traced to them, and keep the circle small.

 

[ESPNjacket]

I think once you give the kill order, and your targets start falling, you may not know the details but you know enough that it's being done. You gave the order, you may not have bought the gun that's untraceable, you may not have dropped a bag of cash at the gunman's porch, you may not have pulled the trigger, but you're guilty.

Guys like Coach K and Calipari don't have long careers and are this successful at the highest levels because they're dumb. They know not to pull a Will Wade and get on the phone to discuss anything that can be recorded.

Anyone remember the movie Blue Chips? I imagine the scene where Nick Nolte finally relents and tells the booster to do whatever he has to just don't tell him has played out with multiple coaches across the country. The smart ones just know don't leave anything that can be traced to them, and keep the circle small.

K didn't play this game until Capel got there. I am pretty sure of that.

Kentucky has been playing this game since at least the '50s. Cal knew what he was getting into. Memphis too for that matter, albeit at a smaller scale.

 

[Techster]

K didn't play this game until Capel got there. I am pretty sure of that.

Kentucky has been playing this game since at least the '50s. Cal knew what he was getting into. Memphis too for that matter, albeit at a smaller scale.

No doubt. I think Coach K surveyed the landscape, saw some of his peers surpassing him, and saw his ceiling if he did things the "right" way. He made a deal with the devil somewhere and now here we are. The Zion situation could be the one to bring the chickens home...we'll see. The internet joked about the Duke players' parents getting housing in upscale Durham neighborhoods for years...and what do you know? It's now specifically being pointed out as an item to answer for in a lawsuit. At some point the pretense has disappeared.

Coach Cal is interesting. There was poll among 100 coaches years ago about who was perceived as a cheat. Guess which coach came in at #1?

https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...eived-to-be-the-biggest-cheater-in-the-sport/

On John Calipari: "Cal probably doesn't have to cheat now as much as he used to, but he's still the standard. The rest of us can't even deal in his league. He's the best."

That was in 2012. What happened the year before? He recruited FOUR 5 star recruits led by Anthony Davis. As we all know, that team went on to win the national championship.

If you want to know how "the game" is played at the highest levels, here's a good read that just came out:

https://www.aseaofblue.com/2020/5/1...n-kentucky-wildcats-duke-zion-williamson-nike

The two biggest sports apparel companies and the biggest name schools in college sports are involved. It's literally the sports version of "too big to fail"...in this case, too big to be guilty of cheating. If anything, it's more the shoe companies now that dictate movement of players than coaches...but coaches have to be willing to say "Yes". It makes sense when you think of Zion and the Nike shoe blowout he had...and how Nike bent over backwards to engineer a shoe specifically for him so it wouldn't fail again on national TV when he came back from injury. You have to be naive to think there wasn't an investment there. Nike isn't doing that for some 3 star point guard who plays for Jacksonville State.

https://sports.yahoo.com/zion-williamson-shoe-blowout-may-221531771.html

Nike was able to give Williamson an early firsthand look at those vast company-wide resources. They sprung into action to design a custom sneaker for the rest of his college career that would support the needs of Williamson’s unique blend of speed and power. The personal attention they were able to give him gave Williamson and his family a comfort level with Nike they might not have had otherwise.

Which is to say, it's all rigged. GT has a small chance now with Adidas. That's not to say Pastner and GT would cheat...but Adidas is influential. GT had ZERO chance with Russell.

 

[GTRX7]

My best guess is that Cal is dirty at an SEC football level, rather than the shoe/basketball level, which is more direct. An assistant coach maintains a list of targets and the boosters take it from there.

That is not unreasonable. Like I said, I don't think Cal/UK are "clean," I just don't see Cal/UK trying to pay players or buy players' families houses and cars like Duke, UL, Arizona, LSU, Kansas, etc. I am sure that Nike and boosters are doing the same things behind the scenes that happens in most programs. But I highly doubt Cal/UK are directly involved in those efforts.

 

[jeffgt14]

Dropping the hammer on Duke!

https://www.totalprosports.com/2020...f-all-wins-titles-from-2013-2019-by-the-ncaa/