Are you now, or have you ever been, a denier of AGW?

[Northeast Stinger]

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion stinger. I find it laughable you claim my opinion is inaccurate.

My opinion is that the State Department / administration knew, or should have known, the situation on the ground was not stable and was unsafe for the mission and intelligence assets present. The Brits had the common sense to pull their people out. We did not. After choosing to remain we failed to provide adequate military assets to protect our people. This was a failure in leadership pure and simple (also an opinion) God save us from decision makers who would repeat these mistakes.

Thank you for your diplomatic response.

All of the investigations into this did not yield any thing close to the kind of evidence that would justify the continuing partisan haranguing that we have gotten on the topic. And though you are certainly entitled to your opinion, that was never the official finding of any of the major investigations.

By contrast consider the attack that occurred in Lebanon in 1982. 241 Americans died, not 4. There was one main investigation (conducted by the Reagan Administration who were the ones responsible for the policy in the first place) not over 50 investigations. The military chain of command was found to be at fault but no one was relieved of command and no one was asked to resign from the Administration, as had been repeatedly called for in the case of Benghazi. Several recommendations were made after the attack in Lebanon, virtually most of which were never followed.

Recommendations have been made in the aftermath of Benghazi. We shall see if they make a difference. One troubling thing to me was that, not unlike the false information about Iraq having nuclear and biological weapons prior to the Iraq invasion, the administration once again pointed to the CIA as the source of their bad intelligence talking points. So apparently all of the stuff that went wrong during the Bush Administration has still not been cleaned up.

 

[AE 87]

@Northeast Stinger @Whiskey_Clear

Nice respectful conversation. I won't add much. I'd like to offer that there's a significant difference between "no evidence" and "no official findings."

Those on the ground and involved in fighting during the aftermath of the terrorist attack in Benghazi disputes several findings of fact from the house report.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-s...acies-with-firsthand-account-from-the-ground/

Regardless of whether or not you end up believing them, the testimony of the only surviving eyewitnesses of and participants in much of the actual fighting should count as evidence.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

And though you are certainly entitled to your opinion, that was never the official finding of any of the major investigations.

.

Congress investigated my opinion?....who turned me in?
Probably derailed this thread too much already and we are unlikely to agree or change perspectives.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

@AE 87 Thanks for sharing that Breitbart article. Pretty eye opening. I may have to find the book written by the contractors and give it a read.

 

[IEEEWreck]

You only have to look at the collapse of the "food pyramid" that was advocated for decades by the feds. It is comical to talk of industry subverting science and yet turn a blind eye to government malfeasance. Industry has limited resources, governments do not. Handwaving away government favoritism based on a "elaborate process" is just silly.

I need you to elaborate what lesson you draw from the food pyramid. To me, that's an example of an industry that completely captured the government body related to it. It was pretty much a grain (corn, specifically) industry advertisement paid for by dept of agriculture and lobbied into policy over time. Heck, in this case, the evil sons of unwed mothers in Iowa and their caucuses are as much to blame as corporate money.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I need you to elaborate what lesson you draw from the food pyramid. To me, that's an example of an industry that completely captured the government body related to it. It was pretty much a grain (corn, specifically) industry advertisement paid for by dept of agriculture and lobbied into policy over time. Heck, in this case, the evil sons of unwed mothers in Iowa and their caucuses are as much to blame as corporate money.

This is why government conspiracy theories always sound so ludicrous to me. If government is about anything it is about huge corporate lobbyists. When we agree with those lobbyists we say government is doing a good job. When we disagree with those lobbyists we say, "Ooh, there is some kind of deep dark government conspiracy to control our lives." No. The government is just a reflection of larger societal influences, struggles and pressure points.

 

[IEEEWreck]

Just a thought: Its actually pretty fun for me to get a glimpse into the out of football thoughts of fellow fans. I already respect ya'll and know a little about a lot of you, so its different. I dont come here to talk politics, but a little politics among friends is fun. It also prods me to leave my usual circles, and thats not a bad thing.

I was gonna write a thing, but it really should have its own thread. Also, thanks for pushing me back into warming literature.

 

[Animal02]

I need you to elaborate what lesson you draw from the food pyramid. To me, that's an example of an industry that completely captured the government body related to it. It was pretty much a grain (corn, specifically) industry advertisement paid for by dept of agriculture and lobbied into policy over time. Heck, in this case, the evil sons of unwed mothers in Iowa and their caucuses are as much to blame as corporate money.

And you think the Global Warming hysteria is any different? There are plenty of industries that benefit / stand to benefit with government force of law and regulations.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

And you think the Global Warming hysteria is any different? There are plenty of industries that benefit / stand to benefit with government force of law and regulations.

Government is government. It is just a reflection of the people and institutions who try to influence it. To refer to "global warming hysteria" always feels a little overwrought given those circumstances. There is no "government conspiracy," just the American people doing what the American people have always done. The only interesting part of that equation, from my vantage point, would be to add up the dollars from private sources and see who is winning that contest.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

It's easy to label criticism of government as paranoia but I believe that characterization, made in an all encompassing manner, is naive. Even a cursory observation of government will provide many instances of corruption. It is the people's resposibility to be cognizant of this and hold our elected leaders accountable. I am not saying all politicians are corrupt though. They are often however, in my opinion, more interested in maintaining their office/position/power than actually making positive change for the country. Which is another reason citizens should hold politicians accountable.
As for government being a reflection of the people......true to a degree but made up mostly of lawyers so not a very good reflection of the masses.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

And I believe the left does in fact have an agenda regarding AGW and energy production in general. That agenda is the same old same for the left. Bigger government and more taxes.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

And I believe the left does in fact have an agenda regarding AGW and energy production in general. That agenda is the same old same for the left. Bigger government and more taxes.

That sounds like pointy tin foil hat talk to me. Sorry.

 

[AE 87]

And I believe the left does in fact have an agenda regarding AGW and energy production in general. That agenda is the same old same for the left. Bigger government and more taxes.

Repeat after me: Solyndra never happened, and the Keystone pipeline is being built.

 

[Animal02]

And I believe the left does in fact have an agenda regarding AGW and energy production in general. That agenda is the same old same for the left. Bigger government and more taxes.

Not to mention the individual players that stand to profit from the hysteria........whether it be selling carbon credits or CF light bulbs.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

You two will need to be fitted for your pointy tin foil hats now also.

 

[Animal02]

You two will need to be fitted for your pointy tin foil hats now also.

I find it interesting that someone can readily accept that corporate interests could "capture" the government WRT the food pyramid / grain industry............think that the same thing happening in the energy industry is in the realm of tin foil conspiracy theories.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

think that the same thing happening in the energy industry is in the realm of tin foil conspiracy theories.

Not sure who said that. I was arguing against the notion that one particular political party or another was part of a government conspiracy. I have said all along that corporate lobbyists are what drive the action.

 

[AE 87]

I'm still not sure who is supposed to be wearing the tin-foil hats ...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/23/fema-targets-climate-change-denier-governors-could/

 

[AE 87]

tin-foil hat PhD's?

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Lobbyists work both aisles of Congress pretty hard. It's naive to say only corporate lobbyists aligned with the right do so. I know for a fact this is not the case. My old man graduated from Tech with bachelors in Civil Engineering...also obtained his Masters at Tech...Civil again with some sort of focus on hydrodynamics (I'm not an engineer so sorry for not being more precise here). Bottom line is this, he had a long career at the Southern Company (gasp...a corporation oh my) , was a member of NHA (National Hydropower Association) for many years and indeed lobbied members of Congress to promote hydropower. He was never paid to do so. Did it on his own time and on his own dime to promote something he was passionate about, hydropower. But he did go up against green lobbyists who did lobby for pay and championed those I'd label as environmental whackos....though I expect stinger would classify them as environmental saints.
To summarize though I will repeat. It is incredibly naive to think only corporations lobby Congress on this matter. Equally naive imo to believe that only "corporate" lobbyists benefit financially through their lobbying efforts.