Apples and Oranges

[TheFlyest]

He was also down to an inexperienced 3rd string QB in that Gardner Webb game. Collins had THREE experienced QBs against Citadel and still couldn't beat them. WOW

No knock but LJ was the starter that game. Graham was hurt. That said it was a poorly coached game. TO truly was the hotter hand that game and should have been given the ball.

 

[TheFlyest]

I’ve seen a lot of complaining about CGC and staff from the same group of people. This group will not acknowledge the hurdles in this transition and seem to focus only on the negatives. This same group also loves to point to PJ’s transition and how well it went without acknowledging the goldmine he walked into.

The purpose of this post is to point out the significant difference in what each coach walked into.

I want to take offense completely out of the equation to start and focus on 4 players that allowed Paul to have the start he did.

1. Darryl Richard (SR)
2. Vance Walker (SR) - mutli year NFL career
3. Michael Johnson (SR) - mutli year NFL career. Best pure pass rusher in the last 15 years
4. Derrick Morgan (SO) - mutli year NFL career. GT HoFer and arguably the best DL in the last 15 years.

Serious question for those doubting CGC and staff’s coaching ability. Do you think this season would look the same with this group on our team now? Need I mention we had 3 guys on the backend of that D played in the league as well? One of which is still playing 10+ years later.

In the first 6 games (same point in the season) of 2008, our defense gave up 10.667 points per game. How would our team this year have faired with those results? Is it possible, things would be a little different?

If we can, let’s talk about the offense now.

1. Dwyer
2. Thomas
3. Nesbitt
4. Howard
5. Gardner

Elite NFL WR, elite college RB, warrior qb, and two NFL olineman.

This post isn’t to take away from Paul being a good/great coach. This is to (hopefully) quell some of the ridiculous comparisons and (hopefully) open some eyes to the fact that there is a talent discrepancy whether you want to admit it or not. I’m not bashing any player either. Stating that we don’t have a D Morgan or M Johnson is just a fact. I won’t go much further on what CGC walked into other than to say we have some talent at the skill positions and on the backend. We lack the same size/ability that the 2008 team had along with the experience which is often overlooked. A lot of experience along both lines in 2008.

And please, don’t bring up Citadel. We all agree, that loss is inexcusable. Just like losing to Gardner Webb would’ve been in 2008 (which would happened with the 2019 defense IMO). Continuing to bring it up does nobody any good. It happened. It sucked. It’s over. This post is about the other 5 games we’ve played.

Good post.

 

[Jacket4Life9]

He was also down to an inexperienced 3rd string QB in that Gardner Webb game. Collins had THREE experienced QBs against Citadel and still couldn't beat them. WOW

3 experienced QBs? You’ve got to be kidding. By the way, Calvin Booker was a senior who played in 5 games the year before. Booker played admirably in the GW game but the problem wasn’t experience as much as it was his skill set didn’t fit the system. I never judged CPJ based off that performance, as I knew and expected he’d get more Nesbitt type players to run his offense. Our roster is full of triple option QBs/athletes. They had no P5 QB offers for a reason. They have all played hard and I’m proud of their progression—especially Graham’s—but don’t act like we have 3 veteran QBs ready to roll. Especially when the OL is in shambles.

 

[gtpi]

I’m guessing you’re replying to Mr. eyeroll? I don’t ignore many, but I couldn’t keep reading his stuff. I’m sure whatever he wrote was insightful.

who is mr eyeroll? asking for a friend.

 

[scotts]

Saban lost to Louisiana Monroe in his 1st year at Alabama. No one brings up that game or questions his record at Alabama that 1st year.

Please stop talking about the Citadel game and our coach! Let’s see what happens over the next couple of seasons before we come to a conclusion on our coach.

 

[BonafideJacket]

I’ve seen a lot of complaining about CGC and staff from the same group of people. This group will not acknowledge the hurdles in this transition and seem to focus only on the negatives. This same group also loves to point to PJ’s transition and how well it went without acknowledging the goldmine he walked into.

The purpose of this post is to point out the significant difference in what each coach walked into.

I want to take offense completely out of the equation to start and focus on 4 players that allowed Paul to have the start he did.

1. Darryl Richard (SR)
2. Vance Walker (SR) - mutli year NFL career
3. Michael Johnson (SR) - mutli year NFL career. Best pure pass rusher in the last 15 years
4. Derrick Morgan (SO) - mutli year NFL career. GT HoFer and arguably the best DL in the last 15 years.

Serious question for those doubting CGC and staff’s coaching ability. Do you think this season would look the same with this group on our team now? Need I mention we had 3 guys on the backend of that D played in the league as well? One of which is still playing 10+ years later.

In the first 6 games (same point in the season) of 2008, our defense gave up 10.667 points per game. How would our team this year have faired with those results? Is it possible, things would be a little different?

If we can, let’s talk about the offense now.

1. Dwyer
2. Thomas
3. Nesbitt
4. Howard
5. Gardner

Elite NFL WR, elite college RB, warrior qb, and two NFL olineman.

This post isn’t to take away from Paul being a good/great coach. This is to (hopefully) quell some of the ridiculous comparisons and (hopefully) open some eyes to the fact that there is a talent discrepancy whether you want to admit it or not. I’m not bashing any player either. Stating that we don’t have a D Morgan or M Johnson is just a fact. I won’t go much further on what CGC walked into other than to say we have some talent at the skill positions and on the backend. We lack the same size/ability that the 2008 team had along with the experience which is often overlooked. A lot of experience along both lines in 2008.

And please, don’t bring up Citadel. We all agree, that loss is inexcusable. Just like losing to Gardner Webb would’ve been in 2008 (which would happened with the 2019 defense IMO). Continuing to bring it up does nobody any good. It happened. It sucked. It’s over. This post is about the other 5 games we’ve played.

I appreciate the time and thought you put into this post even though I don't agree with all of it.

I'm not sure if I'm a part of the "same group of people" you mentioned but I believe there is a segment of us that are giving CGC a pass on this year at this point and trying not to sink down into the muck of comparing CPJ and CGC, but who nonetheless have valid concerns about this staff independent of talent level and scheme changes (game week preparation, gameday decision making, mischaracterization of facts, etc). I think there are valid discussions to be had on that, but those concerns are usually shouted down with the same responses given to the tired talent and transition arguments. I enjoy good back and forth with reasoned arguments and am disappointed we have largely gotten away from that on all fronts. I look forward to responses to my posts that evidence research and thoughtfulness. Unfortunately, those responses usually instead sink to some variation of "you're just whining to be whining" or "you don't understand football."

All that to say "thank you" for a well-thought-out and researched post @Lee.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Complete write off year. I don't care for Collins personally and I don't think he's doing a good job this year. I get sick of his nonsense - ATL, we don't say starters around here (until this week in press conferences), we practice everyone around here. Just rubs me completely the wrong way.

Having said that, just because he has fielded a bad team this year doesn't mean that he will not eventually be able to make a solid team. I firmly believe that he won't maximize his talent, but he may be good enough to get us back to the ACC championship. Don't see anything more than that because Clemson is in the way and we would most likely have to beat them twice - don't see that happening unless dabo or Venables leaves. Also don't see him beating UGA either - mostly because those bastards seem to play GT well and they are really good.

One last thing - he better start making a dent in recruiting DT or his defense won't work.

You are not sure what you want. ATL is something makes you sick, but you supported the concept last season and thought it was an issue of CPJ and CNW


QUOTE="pbrown520, post: 390074, member: 1003"] I think your last paragraph is the biggest issue. We need more good on good, I.e. quality depth. Particularly on the lines to help competition.[/QUOTE]

 

[Jacket4Life9]

He was also down to an inexperienced 3rd string QB in that Gardner Webb game. Collins had THREE experienced QBs against Citadel and still couldn't beat them. WOW

it’s posts like these that make OP’s point. You point out the fact that CPJ was down to a 3rd string QB, without mentioning Dwyer, Baybay, Gardner, Richard, Walker, Burnett, Jones, etc. but you refuse to acknowledge the fact that the current staff is down to a makeshift OL and as thin a DL group as we’ve ever seen.

 

[Ibeeballin]

He was also down to an inexperienced 3rd string QB in that Gardner Webb game. Collins had THREE experienced QBs against Citadel and still couldn't beat them. WOW

What you qualify as experienced?

 

[GTRambler]

Saban lost to Louisiana Monroe in his 1st year at Alabama. No one brings up that game or questions his record at Alabama that 1st year.

Please stop talking about the Citadel game and our coach! Let’s see what happens over the next couple of seasons before we come to a conclusion on our coach.

Saban went 7-6 in his first year at Alabama.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

3 experienced QBs? You’ve got to be kidding. By the way, Calvin Booker was a senior who played in 5 games the year before. Booker played admirably in the GW game but the problem wasn’t experience as much as it was his skill set didn’t fit the system. I never judged CPJ based off that performance, as I knew and expected he’d get more Nesbitt type players to run his offense. Our roster is full of triple option QBs/athletes. They had no P5 QB offers for a reason. They have all played hard and I’m proud of their progression—especially Graham’s—but don’t act like we have 3 veteran QBs ready to roll. Especially when the OL is in shambles.

The FACT is that, regardless of the system they were signed for, they had experience, and they had experience in the first two games of the season under Collins. Any one of the three SHOULD have been able to beat Citadel, especially Oliver, but we still lost.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

it’s posts like these that make OP’s point. You point out the fact that CPJ was down to a 3rd string QB, without mentioning Dwyer, Baybay, Gardner, Richard, Walker, Burnett, Jones, etc. but you refuse to acknowledge the fact that the current staff is down to a makeshift OL and as thin a DL group as we’ve ever seen.

NONE of that excuses losing to Citadel.

 

[RickStromFan]

for the record.... your constant complaining is helping us how? how do you think it effects our players who read this page? more importantly.... how do you think it effects recruiting?

does it help the coaches. have you contacted the staff to tell them where they are going wrong? id start off with the 3 coaches/staff that worked for alabama. i think you should arrange a sit down talk with tstan and demand changes to your liking.

no excuses. no buts.... for once give us a straight answer.

IMO it's pretty clear there's a contingent of PJ fans who absolutely do not want CGC to succeed so that we will foolishly hire Jeff Monken and bring Service Academy ball back to the Flats.
The good news is...that ain't happenin'. Regardless of what happens with CGC, we aren't going back to the TO, thank the gods.

 

[Boaty1]

The FACT is that, regardless of the system they were signed for, they had experience, and they had experience in the first two games of the season under Collins. Any one of the three SHOULD have been able to beat Citadel, especially Oliver, but we still lost.

I think the point here is it’s difficult to do much with a qb completely ill suited for the system you are running. Lucas and Tobias will not see the field again at qb again at GT. There is a reason for that.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

I think the point here is it’s difficult to do much with a qb completely ill suited for the system you are running. Lucas and Tobias will not see the field again at qb again at GT. There is a reason for that.

I think Tobias MAY, if push comes to shove. It's for sure he should have come in for the two-point conversion since they had apparently decided not to go ahead and just kick it after Graham went out. Other than that though, I agree, especially with Lucas, although you have to feel a little sorry for him. I hope he goes ahead and enters the transfer portal early.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

Saban lost to Louisiana Monroe in his 1st year at Alabama. No one brings up that game or questions his record at Alabama that 1st year.

Please stop talking about the Citadel game and our coach! Let’s see what happens over the next couple of seasons before we come to a conclusion on our coach.

Saban had already won a national championship at LSU when he lost to Louisiana Monroe at Alabama. A little easier to to assume a bad loss isn’t the norm when the guy has a natty under his belt. CGC has a 16-15 career record. I haven’t given up on him yet, but there’s understandably reason to suspect his abilities in this situation.

 

[pbrown520]

You are not sure what you want. ATL is something makes you sick, but you supported the concept last season and thought it was an issue of CPJ and CNW


QUOTE="pbrown520, post: 390074, member: 1003"] I think your last paragraph is the biggest issue. We need more good on good, I.e. quality depth. Particularly on the lines to help competition.

[/QUOTE]

@Ibeeballan, ATL and having depth are not even related. I was speaking to having legit depth on the roster (which I still want), not how you try to spin a depth chart into ATL. The ATL thing is nothing more than a depth chart gimmick trying to be played off as something else. I just think the ATL is dumb - and more than the ATL the whole "we don't talk about starters around this program, that's not language we use". Well everyone else does at every level. Again, this has nothing to do with how he actually manages the roster. It has to do with his salesman way of talking and communicating about it.

More than calling the scout team the development team, the thing from that perspective that I do like is that Collins likes to play players - I think that will pay dividends in the future.

 

[jandrews]

This whole post boils down to CPJ transition to being Tech's HC was smoother than CGC. That is all. We can look at rosters, at how other coaches went from the 3O to some other kind of offense but there is a group of our fanbase that are actually enjoying the struggle so they can finally come out after the years of people bashing the 3o. Plain and simple when CPJ entered the ACC in 2008 look at what the league was like and compare it to the most recent years. Also, UGA has upped their level of play over the past couple of years (but not this weekend ). I personally have been taking it game to game. We looked great on our opening possession against Duke. Then not so much. I would like to see us come out and play good sound football. At times we look a little lost and I put that on CGC but overall we are making steps between each game. Lets see how it plays out for the remainder of the year. When some of the transfer become eligible and the recruiting class comes in we may start to see what we will be.

 

[4shotB]

IMO it's pretty clear there's a contingent of PJ fans who absolutely do not want CGC to succeed so that we will foolishly hire Jeff Monken and bring Service Academy ball back to the Flats.
The good news is...that ain't happenin'. Regardless of what happens with CGC, we aren't going back to the TO, thank the gods.

I am thinking that this year may end up as the kiss of death for the TO system in P5 FB. Outsiders who are unfamiliar with our overall situation with recent years recruiting,depth, injuries, etc. will assume that this is the price to be paid for the transition away from it on the back end. Now, more than ever, no AD will be willing to stick his neck out that far imo. If Monken had ever thought about a P5 job then, imo, that ship has sailed.

 

[jandrews]

I am thinking that this year may end up as the kiss of death for the TO system in P5 FB. Outsiders who are unfamiliar with our overall situation with recent years recruiting,depth, injuries, etc. will assume that this is the price to be paid for the transition away from it on the back end. Now, more than ever, no AD will be willing to stick his neck out that far imo. If Monken had ever thought about a P5 job then, imo, that ship has sailed.

Major assumption in your post is that this staff is getting the most out of the players and putting the best practice on the field. I just don’t see that. We can debate about the D but the O has left much to be desired.