Anyone remember Vad Lee ?

Augusta_Jacket

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,125
Location
Augusta, Georgia
Jacket in Dairyland said:
Personally I like him , I think. I just wish he would change his approach. Dreaming I know.
Click to expand...

I understand where you are coming from, but this is the part I really don't understand. When I hire someone, I hope that the person I hired is the person I interviewed. I don't want them changing completely once they get the job. Now, you can make an argument that CPJ needs to adapt, and I think any reasonable person could tell you he has over the years. Certain plays are added/subtracted from the playbook based on the capabilities of the personnel on the field. Under Vad we ran with some different formations than we currently do. We got away from the midline with JeT because it didn't suit his game. From a play calling aspect, I really can't find fault with CPJ for the most part.

Where I disagree most with CPJ is how curmudgeonly he is towards the media. I realize, however, that this is a personality difference between him and I, and not necessarily a fault of his. Sometimes, reasonable people approach things in different ways.

As @kg01 said, there have been a few times in the past couple of years where the team looks poorly coached. I have some issues with certain things, but tend to not rail on the internet because my opinion, unless paired with a sizable contribution history, really won't make a huge difference. If we can get this season turned around, which I have increasing confidence can happen, and can weather a new QB transition next year, I think GT can be poised to win again in the near future.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
Jacket in Dairyland said:
At times like these with our QB issues, I have thought back to VL and his time on the Flats. IMO, he could have been a difference maker. The attempts by CPJ to put in some trick plays ( Pistol ) to use his talents were half-hearted at best. The man could pass, but he was not a true option QB, like many now who run more of a spread option. His time here was wasted and was a missed opportunity, IMO, and demonstrates an unwillingness to adapt by CPJ.
A friend of mine used to describe talented pro style QBs that would come to Penn State to play for " 3 yards and a cloud of dust " Joe Paterno. They would often get " the Joe message" , after an interception, which made them second guess future pass attempts and create hesitation on the part of the QB. The QB can tell if the coach fully supports them , or looks for an excuse to tell them " I told you so ".
Any thoughts as it relates to Tech ?
Click to expand...
Johnson did adapt. What you are talking about is complaining that Johnson did not scrap his offense in the hopes that Lee could play at the "5" level. He got his chance. He couldn't. He went to JMU and did really well, and good for him for finding his level. No, he couldn't run the option, either in that -- to me -- odd diamond formation or from under center. From what I gather, not very well at JMU either. Given plenty of time he could throw, and he could run. He found the right spot. For heaven's sakes, that was several years ago. Lee has been out of school 2-3 years. He is not playing "at the next level". So let it go, and stop blaming Johnson for every locust infestation.
 
smokey_wasp

smokey_wasp

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,486
Didn't this thread get posted the other day? I replied to it basically saying Vad probably wasn't all that good and then I could never find the thread again. Did it get nuked?
 
Jacket in Dairyland

Jacket in Dairyland

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,053
Skeptic said:
Johnson did adapt. What you are talking about is complaining that Johnson did not scrap his offense in the hopes that Lee could play at the "5" level. He got his chance. He couldn't. He went to JMU and did really well, and good for him for finding his level. No, he couldn't run the option, either in that -- to me -- odd diamond formation or from under center. From what I gather, not very well at JMU either. Given plenty of time he could throw, and he could run. He found the right spot. For heaven's sakes, that was several years ago. Lee has been out of school 2-3 years. He is not playing "at the next level". So let it go, and stop blaming Johnson for every locust infestation.
Click to expand...
Not quite what I meant , but I see your point. You may find it hard to believe/understand , that everything you don't find personally interesting or agreeable is a " locust infestation". It is somewhat discouraging, as a relatively new member , that everything posted has to undergo a critique by those who have posted longer. If my post is
disagreeable to you , then say that. If it is uninteresting , just ignore it. Spare me your "platitudes."
 
Ash

Ash

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
783
I remember Vad coming in to be the catalyst that was going to propel us to the next level. Johnson's hand pick guy that could pass the ball. It was the ultimate "wait til next year."

Never really panned out the way I was told it would.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
Jacket in Dairyland said:
Not quite what I meant , but I see your point. You may find it hard to believe/understand , that everything you don't find personally interesting or agreeable is a " locust infestation". It is somewhat discouraging, as a relatively new member , that everything posted has to undergo a critique by those who have posted longer. If my post is
disagreeable to you , then say that. If it is uninteresting , just ignore it. Spare me your "platitudes."
Click to expand...
Ah, now. I believe that is called "hyperbole", and not intended to encourage nor discourage posting. It was simply to note Johnson did as he said he would do recruiting the kid. At least according to Lee or his spokesmen, I don't remember which. He put him 6-7 yards back to give him time to make a decision, though it also gave the defense time to react. Her could not do it. (In his defense as in Marshall's defense, today's D linemen and LBs are apparently taught all sorts of gimmicks and tricks to fool a QB into the wrong decision; Clemson calls it the "Que" move. Beats me. I have to admit though that I thought the locust blame reference was clever enough not to be considered insipid, but to simply say Johnson can't be blamed for everything, surely. We learn as we grow. And by all means post away but be careful. I have had some world class bad posts late in the cycle.
 

Animal02

Banned
Messages
6,269
Location
Southeastern Michigan
[FLOAT_RIGHT][/FLOAT_RIGHT]
Ash said:
I remember Vad coming in to be the catalyst that was going to propel us to the next level. Johnson's hand pick guy that could pass the ball. It was the ultimate "wait til next year."

Never really panned out the way I was told it would.
Click to expand...
Don't forget all the morons that booed TW because Vad didn't start
 

eetech

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
209
Jacket in Dairyland said:
His time here was wasted and was a missed opportunity, IMO, and demonstrates an unwillingness to adapt by CPJ.
Click to expand...

My personal belief about this episode is that it was much worse than that. Vad Lee was replaced by Justin Thomas, who was a great leader and QB. I suspect that the failure of the Vad Lee experiment further convinced CPJ that his methods were correct, and he didn't need to make any changes, especially since JT performed so well under his original system.

I'm of the opinion that success in competitive football is achieved by adaptation, because if you change and adapt, others will adapt to you. Factor in rule changes that have hurt our offense disproportionately, and adaptations are probably even more important for CPJ at Tech. But the Vad Lee experiment, IMO, turned him off making too many changes completely.
 

eetech

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
209
MWBATL said:
With respect, you (and I) don't know what was happening behind the scenes with Vad. It could well be that CPJ encouraged him to transfer.

I for one do believe that our offense is far too one dimensional without any passing attack. Far too often in the last year and a half we have been stopped pretty easily in the 4th quarter when we should have been controlling the game.
Click to expand...

Our offense used to not be one dimensional even without a passing attack. The need for the passing attack was to stretch the defense vertically. Our offense used to be able to do that with regular run plays that went 30-40 yards (I remember the ESPN commentators calling our offense 30 yards and a cloud of dust in the 2008 Miami game). Our ability to get those huge yardage plays every 5 or 6 plays kept defenses honest.

For whatever reason, we've lost that. It could be rule changes preventing our players from blocking downfield, it could be defenses adapting and allowing us the 3-4 yards, knowing that if we have to run 20 plays to score every time then the odds we would be unable to do so by either turning the ball over, or having a drive killing penalty is high, it could be a lack of playmakers on the outside, or even on the OL, who are able to take out their corresponding lineman and someone else downfield, or a combination of all. But it appears from the eye test that our run game is unable to stretch the field vertically, which is forcing us to pass far more than we were comfortable.

There was a time where 3rd and 10 was a more than 50% chance we would run the ball. Now it's almost certainly a pass.
 
Jacket in Dairyland

Jacket in Dairyland

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,053
Skeptic said:
Ah, now. I believe that is called "hyperbole", and not intended to encourage nor discourage posting. It was simply to note Johnson did as he said he would do recruiting the kid. At least according to Lee or his spokesmen, I don't remember which. He put him 6-7 yards back to give him time to make a decision, though it also gave the defense time to react. Her could not do it. (In his defense as in Marshall's defense, today's D linemen and LBs are apparently taught all sorts of gimmicks and tricks to fool a QB into the wrong decision; Clemson calls it the "Que" move. Beats me. I have to admit though that I thought the locust blame reference was clever enough not to be considered insipid, but to simply say Johnson can't be blamed for everything, surely. We learn as we grow. And by all means post away but be careful. I have had some world class bad posts late in the cycle.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I was a little too quick to pull the trigger, too. I am not always the best at making my real points at times. Appreciate your response.
 
Jacket in Dairyland

Jacket in Dairyland

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,053
eetech said:
Our offense used to not be one dimensional even without a passing attack. The need for the passing attack was to stretch the defense vertically. Our offense used to be able to do that with regular run plays that went 30-40 yards (I remember the ESPN commentators calling our offense 30 yards and a cloud of dust in the 2008 Miami game). Our ability to get those huge yardage plays every 5 or 6 plays kept defenses honest.

For whatever reason, we've lost that. It could be rule changes preventing our players from blocking downfield, it could be defenses adapting and allowing us the 3-4 yards, knowing that if we have to run 20 plays to score every time then the odds we would be unable to do so by either turning the ball over, or having a drive killing penalty is high, it could be a lack of playmakers on the outside, or even on the OL, who are able to take out their corresponding lineman and someone else downfield, or a combination of all. But it appears from the eye test that our run game is unable to stretch the field vertically, which is forcing us to pass far more than we were comfortable.

There was a time where 3rd and 10 was a more than 50% chance we would run the ball. Now it's almost certainly a pass.
Click to expand...
Total Agreement.
 
4shotB

4shotB

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
Messages
5,147
UgaBlows said:
X2 i think the newer blocking rules have killed our home-run ability, that and defenses holding our olinemen have really hurt us
Click to expand...

Then we must adapt or perish. The game evolves so if the D has temporarily stymied us in this game of 4D chess as we used to call it, what is OUR next move? or have we indeed come to the point where we as a "species" cannot adapt fast enough to avoid extinction?
 

jgtengineer

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,070
4shotB said:
Then we must adapt or perish. The game evolves so if the D has temporarily stymied us in this game of 4D chess as we used to call it, what is OUR next move? or have we indeed come to the point where we as a "species" cannot adapt fast enough to avoid extinction?
Click to expand...

The sad thing is the way you keep lineman from holding is you eat a few chop blocks. Shred a few knees that deal stops. Thats the only way it will. Its the same thing we were taught before hands to the face was illegal tuck and drop one broken hand the rest of them keep them out of your face.

Running games in general have suffered because of the defensive holding that isnt called its not just our style that is hurt by this. There is also a reason you dont see this level of d holding i. The nfl agaisnt power run games. Those guys are not above eating a fine to send a message. How many offenaive lineman have we lost to lower body injuries in games where the hold and roll on our lineman
 
Top