Any news?? (stage 3: press coverage)

[JacketFan137]

If we're screwed because we have to pay a ~7 mil$ buyout then it isn't because of anything TStan can do about it. That isn't a harsh buy out in today's game. As far as the structure of the contract basically guaranteeing 4 years, that is because of the situation we were in. It's not unreasonable to assume that anyone who was going to come here and deal with transitioning away from the option would want measures in place to basically guarantee at least 4 years. That's enough time to allow the first real class of recruits to reach their junior year.

the only questions i have about the buyout are the alleged january 1st thing and possibly the amount of money that it will cost if we have to dismiss him mid season.

the length of the contract and is not having a reasonable out until year 4 are totally warranted and i think we’d have given that to any coach when we decided to transition the offense

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I think Collins is on ice too thin for any recovery other than some kind of miracle. I think your descriptions of a mob mentality are leading to a desire to burn everything that remotely touches football to the ground and start over from scratch. I fear that we might end up throwing away the baby with the bathwater and be so far behind that GT athletics won't be able to recover

This is my fear as well.

 

[GT33]

Nice deflection.

It’s not a deflection. There should be a reason to retain Stansbury and in your opinion it’s real clear. In my opinion, he’s a train wreck and the evidence is in the numbers.

 

[BuzzStone]

I just don't understand why his contract did not have some measurable milestones. Like if you have not gone to a bowl by year 4 the remainder of the term is void. That is not a hard ask 1 bowl game in 4 years.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

It’s not a deflection. There should be a reason to retain Stansbury and in your opinion it’s real clear. In my opinion, he’s a train wreck and the evidence is in the numbers.

It is the exact definition of a deflection. I ask a question, and instead of receiving an answer I get a "why don't you answer my question instead response."

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I just don't understand why his contract did not have some measurable milestones. Like if you have not gone to a bowl by year 4 the remainder of the term is void. That is not a hard ask 1 bowl game in 4 years.

Because contracts aren't written that way? I don't know of a single contract ever accepted by a coach that voids if a bowl isn't reached at any stage...

 

[BuzzStone]

Because contracts aren't written that way? I don't know of a single contract ever accepted by a coach that voids if a bowl isn't reached at any stage...

Doesn't have to be a bowl, could be a win total or something. No reason these guys should get blank checks with no milestones to achive.

 

[link3945]

I think the contract structure stuff is largely overblown. The vast majority of contracts these days are 6 years, so a 7th year on top for "transition reasons" seems reasonable. Buyout dropping on Jan 1 instead of after the season or as each game goes by is pretty poor, but that might be a common structure among other schools.

The public has not fully grappled with how insane these contracts have gotten: coaches appear to have all of the negotiating power, and school after school just gets screwed on these things. I don't think 7 or even 10 million dollars would crack the top 10 buyouts made last year!

 

[90sJacketsFan]

Because contracts aren't written that way? I don't know of a single contract ever accepted by a coach that voids if a bowl isn't reached at any stage...

https://talkbusiness.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Pittman-Sam-Razorback-FB-HC-Offer-Letter-SIGNED-12.8.19_Redacted.pdf

Sam Pittman's original contract was pretty University friendly. Think his buyout if they fired him for convenience was based on his winning %

 

[RonJohn]

It’s not a deflection. There should be a reason to retain Stansbury and in your opinion it’s real clear. In my opinion, he’s a train wreck and the evidence is in the numbers.

He has done a lot for the athletic association. He has increased fundraising. (an argument can be made that funding will drop a lot because of the football program, but he has been able to get people to donate money at levels not achieved since Rice.) He has increased the effectiveness of the GTAA organization. (although it was just about non-functional under MBob)

It appears that you want to only look at football and basketball. You don't want to look at what the athletic director has or has not directly done for football or basketball, only the records. Then on top of that, you want to look at only the 2021-22 basketball season and ignore the 2019-20 and 2020-21 seasons. You want to assume that he made the decision on a coach by himself and that he single-handedly wrote and negotiated CGC's contract. You want to assume that he has a secret stash of $12 million to get rid of the current coach and a stash of tens of millions to bring in a top notch staff.

The athletic association is in much better shape than it was seven years ago. Basketball had a bad year, but it has been in much better shape than it was before Pastner. Football is in the dumpster. If TStan does nothing to try to get football on a better path, then I will agree with you that he needs to leave. At this point, my opinion is that the coaching staff needs to be changed.

One thing I haven't pointed out in my discussions about MBob is the relationship with large donors. I have no inside information, the following is just my understanding: Large donors were unhappy with CPJ rejecting their "suggestions" for football. Under DRad, the AD was a buffer between such donors and the HC. The HC was able to be in charge of football, while the AD was able to keep the donors at least placated. When MBob came in, he didn't try to placate those donors. He isolated from the HC and fueled the discontent with the donors. The athletic association and football in particular have suffered greatly from that lack of leadership. When we hired CGC, those same donors influenced the decision about who to hire. We got a coach who parroted exactly what those donors wanted to hear. It is a huge problem for a football program if the HC is not "The Man" calling all of the shots. What we need is a HC who will be completely in charge and accountable for the football program. We also need an AD who will support that HC and will sasiate the donors when they try to be Al Davis and call football plays from the stands.

 

[ibeattetris]

Other than hiring CGC and keeping him on throughout the total buyout portion of his contract, what particular decisions by TStan do you feel make him unfit to be AD?

I thought he demonstrated how incompetent he was with the Oregon State buyout fiasco. The man just has never seemed like a winner to me. I got blasted on here in 2018 when I said I was not impressed with TStan, and he really hasn’t done anything to convince me otherwise yet.

 

[roadkill]

Doesn't have to be a bowl, could be a win total or something. No reason these guys should get blank checks with no milestones to achive.

It does, assuming the CGC contract that was linked earlier is correct and current. Lots of "carrots" to increase compensation, unfortunately no "sticks" for failure to meet certain standards.

 

[WreckinGT]

The next coaching hire will be one of the most important coaching hires in the history of the program. Letting the guy who already made the worst coaching hire in the history of the program make that hire as well seems like pure stupidity.

 

[roadkill]

It does, assuming the CGC contract that was linked earlier is correct and current. Lots of "carrots" to increase compensation, unfortunately no "sticks" for failure to meet certain standards.

Also, the more I think about the circumstances leading up to CGC's contract, I wonder if ADTS and the GTAA in general were lulled into a sense of complacency by our history of averaging 7+ wins per season. No performance-related risk mitigation clauses were included. Although we expected year 1 to be tough, I doubt anyone expected the ongoing debacle.

 

[JacketFan137]

Also, the more I think about the circumstances leading up to CGC's contract, I wonder if ADTS and the GTAA in general were lulled into a sense of complacency by our history of averaging 7+ wins per season. No performance-related risk mitigation clauses were included. Although we expected year 1 to be tough, I doubt anyone expected the ongoing debacle.

for 20 years i didn’t expect to win any of the big games but i at least figured we’d find 7 somehow and that was even with gailey coaching who was mediocre at best

 

[g0lftime]

I think there are a large number of people who understand Georgia Tech to be the football program. They don't understand that there is a university and a research institute that are larger and much more important than the football program. Along with that understanding, the university president should be fired if football isn't winning regardless of how the university or research institute are doing. Those people think that the athletic association IS football. If football isn't doing well then the athletic association is in shambles.

I have in previous posts put forth my belief that: As an organization the BoT should direct the AD and hold him accountable for the athletic association. The AD should hold each of the coaches and all of the admin staff accountable for things they are responsible for. I think an argument can be made that CGC wasn't held accountable at the end of last year. However arguments can be made that the athletic department didn't have the resources available to fire the coach AND put the program on a path to success. Arguments can be made that CGC was held accountable with ultimatums which resulted in his complete change with public demeanor and supposed focus on football.

I think Collins is on ice too thin for any recovery other than some kind of miracle. I think your descriptions of a mob mentality are leading to a desire to burn everything that remotely touches football to the ground and start over from scratch. I fear that we might end up throwing away the baby with the bathwater and be so far behind that GT athletics won't be able to recover.

No way he turns it around this year. He's done, you can put a fork in him and he obviously knows it.

 

[Steverc]

Is there an incentive for Collins to negotiate an early exit? He could also get in on the coaching carousel if he left early enough. Unless he wants a paid year off I guess Just seems like an early November exit could be something that could be negotiated to the benefit of both parties if you tried hard enough.

Perhaps a he would agree to a smaller buyout if it was paid in a lump sum at the time of firing.

 

[GTLorenzo]

Perhaps a he would agree to a smaller buyout if it was payed in a lump sum at the time of firing.

I think it is probably better for us to pay it off over 4-6 years than in a lump sum unless some alums offer to pay it off early.

 

[MidtownJacket]

For my part, as a school with the mission of GT and a focus on academic rigor, we will not be competing successfully in an arms race against UGA/Clemson/Bama/Michigan/ND/etc.

If our plan is follow their playbook and "out execute" we are hosed from the beginning. That is why I have been, and continue to be, an advocate for an identity built off a scheme centric coach. Be the ABSOLUTE BEST program in a specific scheme. I do not see a world where we are regularly contributing first rounders to the NFL Draft across the OL or DL. If you gave us a $250,00 dollars a player it would still be hard to do. Those type athletes are looking for a clear path to the league. Some of the College programs out there have legit NFL Training facilities/Coaching Development and when you throw in the academic course load we require for a degree it just doesn't make sense. You can't one and done as a college player so signing up when you know you're going pro if you don't have a freak accident, and could go first round if you get the right exposure makes a GT Value Proposition feel less attractive.

If we look for a scheme that allows us to recruit guys who are different from what the factories hoover up then we at least have our choice of players at positions as opposed to trying to out recruit OL or DL against top 10 programs with 6 figure NIL Deals. I hope we see a move back to specialization in something as opposed to a belief in the path we have been down these last four years. I don't think we HAVE to be one dimensional with a air raid or 3O scheme, but the standard "spread pro-style" O isn't happening here. I just don't believe we can get the horses.

 

[85Escape]

I've said it elsewhere...I'm simply not on the "Fire TStan" bandwagon. His job is much more than winning football, but it does include winning football.

I think his problem (other than the date of the Jan 1 on the contract) is that he logically values Football as a single part of the overall athletics program. Unfortunately, logic has no place when it comes to college football fandom. He has made a huge error in not understanding his stakeholders as it related to football, and has devoted too little attention to managing / communicating with those stakeholders (which include all the potential contributors, not just the whales.)

It's a pretty common mistake amongst engineers who move up in responsibility...the things that got you there (management, intellect, hard work) are not the things that will make you successful in the new role (leadership, stakeholders, communication.) Or, more specifically...all six things are needed but their order of importance to being successful changes as you increase level of responsibility.
[management, intellect, hard work, communication, stakeholders, leadership] ---> [leadership, stakeholders, communication, hard work, intellect, management]