Any news?? (stage 3: press coverage)

Thwg777

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
358
In a way, it's good that we are so heavily in debt. If the BoT had any interest in ending sports, the GTAA would have to declare bankruptcy. The only way to pay the debt off is to maintain athletics as a going concern.

I have a relationship with a small-ish college with a religious affiliation. In the old days, many of the faculty representatives on say, the athletic committee, had not only played sports themselves, but also coached them. It was not uncommon to take Physics and then go to batting practice where the professor is coaching the baseball team.

That is long gone.

They installed a more recent BoT who went down the path of expanding their social justice initiatives, climate change initiatives, etc etc. This left less money for academics so the business office began raising tuition ... to really absurd levels. Incoming freshman plummeted and they had to cut expenses in facilities, faculty, etc.

I asked them, "Hey, you are supposed to be teaching kids. Why not use your cash flow for that?" No. They had a new community mission. Creating social justice warriors was more important.

Today, that school (150 years old) is in dire straights and will likely close. Several board members resigned and said, "Don't call me. You guys cannot run a school. You've run this one into the ground."

That's how I feel about the GTAA and it's oversight of the GT athletics. They want to use $$$ to create "future service leaders" instead of creating winning and financially responsible sports programs.

I'm looking ahead and pessimistic. We are in an age where the lack of subject matter expertise is going to seriously weigh on Tech. Replacing Collins isn't going to fix much of anything. We need a massive restructuring.

Thanks for sharing these thoughts. Over the past few weeks I've had similar thoughts about the GTAA. I'm not filthy rich nor am I one of the cloak and dagger / illuminati 'big money-people' types, but I do contribute well more than my fair share and am considering cutting it off completely. While they need money more than ever, I have zero confidence it will be spent wisely.
 

griffin mizell

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
46
In a way, it's good that we are so heavily in debt. If the BoT had any interest in ending sports, the GTAA would have to declare bankruptcy. The only way to pay the debt off is to maintain athletics as a going concern.

I have a relationship with a small-ish college with a religious affiliation. In the old days, many of the faculty representatives on say, the athletic committee, had not only played sports themselves, but also coached them. It was not uncommon to take Physics and then go to batting practice where the professor is coaching the baseball team.

That is long gone.

They installed a more recent BoT who went down the path of expanding their social justice initiatives, climate change initiatives, etc etc. This left less money for academics so the business office began raising tuition ... to really absurd levels. Incoming freshman plummeted and they had to cut expenses in facilities, faculty, etc.

I asked them, "Hey, you are supposed to be teaching kids. Why not use your cash flow for that?" No. They had a new community mission. Creating social justice warriors was more important.

Today, that school (150 years old) is in dire straights and will likely close. Several board members resigned and said, "Don't call me. You guys cannot run a school. You've run this one into the ground."

That's how I feel about the GTAA and it's oversight of the GT athletics. They want to use $$$ to create "future service leaders" instead of creating winning and financially responsible sports programs.

I'm looking ahead and pessimistic. We are in an age where the lack of subject matter expertise is going to seriously weigh on Tech. Replacing Collins isn't going to fix much of anything. We need a massive restructuring.
spot on
 

GT33

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,784
I remember listening to Leonard's Losers on the radio before catching the radio broadcast of the game. We used to walk down to the Post Office (not the Postal Service) because they had little wallet sized cards with the team schedule, radio affiliation/frequency and broadcast time.
We got updates by waiting for the morse code guy to send the scores to the Western Union office
 

tomknight

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
560
No. College athletics is a multi-billion dollar industry and it's getting bigger every year. Everyone wants their cut.

I can envision a day when UGA is generating so much cash from athletics that .... <insert nightmare scenario here>.

Yes. I think the things that some folks are afraid will happen have already happened. Athletes are largely segregated, and treated differently.

add in huge amounts of money, and the money sports are semi-pro. the student part is secondary. Even on my daughter's team, many of her teammates essentially majored in the sport. When their 4 years were used up, they were out, many w/meaningless degrees.
 

laoh

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
750
You're probably a youngster. He coached when men didn't wear face masks, like before them cellphone thingys and imagine this- before people listened to games on the radio & they hadn't even gotten a black & white tv yet either. There were no remote controls and no cable tv, laundry got washed on a rock by the river.

Yeah I wouldn't wash anything in the Chattahoochee nowadays...
 

Js-showman

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
340
Yes. I think the things that some folks are afraid will happen have already happened. Athletes are largely segregated, and treated differently.

add in huge amounts of money, and the money sports are semi-pro. the student part is secondary. Even on my daughter's team, many of her teammates essentially majored in the sport. When their 4 years were used up, they were out, many w/meaningless degrees.
Glad to see a thread that is actually talking about the core issue. When it comes to the transformation of CFB, the train has left the station. CFB is the farm team for the NFL. It isn't about academics any longer, unless you want to consider 'sports and sports management' academic disciplines (which I am not necessarily against). When you put this in the context of GT and the GTAA, we - as an institution - are never going to transform into a factory for the NFL. We are an international STEM school (and one of the best), who uses sports to advance the leadership and character of our students and our alumni.

This whole notion of bringing in a coach who was 'at the intersection of the Saban and Meyer coaching trees' and was going to win 'the Alabama way' through the acquisition of 4 and 5 star recruits, 10 figure investments in facilities and coaching staffs, and running spread offenses that generate the excitement to fill 80,000 seat stadiums, was and is completely ridiculous. You can bash Paul Johnson and the Option all you want, but under that system, we had an identity and, with a small incremental investment, could recruit kids for the system without having to go head to head with SEC schools that could spend fortunes to recruit guys like Arch Manning. That system would get us the occasional ACC championship and a win over UGA. With the right QB, we might even get into a 12 team playoff system.

Given where CFB is at right now, with the updated NIL rules, conference consolidation, massive amounts of money that is only more and more directed at the factories, I feel that the decisions that TS has made over the last few years, including the CGC hire, have put our program in a position from which it may never recover. Assuming that it can recover, TS and GC are not the guys to do it.
 

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,897
Location
Augusta, Georgia
I feel that the decisions that TS has made over the last few years, including the CGC hire, have put our program from which it may never recover. Assuming that it can recover, TS and GC are not the guys to do it.

Other than hiring CGC and keeping him on throughout the total buyout portion of his contract, what particular decisions by TStan do you feel make him unfit to be AD?
 

tsrich

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
784
Other than hiring CGC and keeping him on throughout the total buyout portion of his contract, what particular decisions by TStan do you feel make him unfit to be AD?
I think the structure of CGC's contract is bad enough for me to negate anything else he's done. I get that you can miss on a coach, that happens to any AD. But to setup a contract so that you're screwed trying to make a change 4 years in? That's malpractice.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,060
My golf instructor has several students on the Texas team. The golf course is about 40 min from campus and apparently, there is classroom building there. He said a lot of those students (and Texas has an awesome golf program) have never set foot on the main campus. They play golf and instruction comes to them.

Auburn is pretty much what you describe. There are the athletic dorms, athletic dining, athletic training facilities ... the only interaction athletes have with the standard population is during class.
I though all-athletic dorms were outlawed by the NCAA in the '90's. No more than 49% of the residents of any dorm can be athletes.
 

Vespidae

Helluva Engineer
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4,973
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Auburn, AL
I though all-athletic dorms were outlawed by the NCAA in the '90's. No more than 49% of the residents of any dorm can be athletes.
There are certain buildings near the athletic facilities that are known as the athletic dorms. You may be right but you can still house them all in the same building. Most regular AU students live off campus.
 

GTLorenzo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,476
Other than hiring CGC and keeping him on throughout the total buyout portion of his contract, what particular decisions by TStan do you feel make him unfit to be AD?

I think the hire, length and structure of the contract are enough for him to be reassigned. Totally missed the mark on the biggest revenue sport and compounded the issue with a 7 year contract and no reduction in buyout until after Year 4. HUGE risk on an unproven coach. You could argue about basketball and baseball to some degree. I'm not disappointed that Pastner or Hall have been kept in place.

And he's a very poor communicator personally and for the program. Don't want to get personal, but I just don't think when you put football and his communication skills together, he does a great job. Just my $0.02.
 

GT33

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,784
Other than hiring CGC and keeping him on throughout the total buyout portion of his contract, what particular decisions by TStan do you feel make him unfit to be AD?
How about you give us the list of positives regarding our two biggest revenue sports that should make us believe Stansbury’s the man for the job? Personally, I’m ecstatic our women’s Volleyball team is excelling, but guess what they’re not funding GTAA out of their season sales. Golf is great, but I’m not sure they even sell a ticket.
 

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,897
Location
Augusta, Georgia
How about you give us the list of positives regarding our two biggest revenue sports that should make us believe Stansbury’s the man for the job? Personally, I’m ecstatic our women’s Volleyball team is excelling, but guess what they’re not funding GTAA out of their season sales. Golf is great, but I’m not sure they even sell a ticket.

Nice deflection.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,568
I think the structure of CGC's contract is bad enough for me to negate anything else he's done. I get that you can miss on a coach, that happens to any AD. But to setup a contract so that you're screwed trying to make a change 4 years in? That's malpractice.

If we're screwed because we have to pay a ~7 mil$ buyout then it isn't because of anything TStan can do about it. That isn't a harsh buy out in today's game. As far as the structure of the contract basically guaranteeing 4 years, that is because of the situation we were in. It's not unreasonable to assume that anyone who was going to come here and deal with transitioning away from the option would want measures in place to basically guarantee at least 4 years. That's enough time to allow the first real class of recruits to reach their junior year.
 

stinger 1957

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,326
I think the structure of CGC's contract is bad enough for me to negate anything else he's done. I get that you can miss on a coach, that happens to any AD. But to setup a contract so that you're screwed trying to make a change 4 years in? That's malpractice.
What you are saying about contract structure seems to be a culture issue with the AA. I could be wrong, but it seems time and time again we have been doing this over the years, this one may be the worst. We seem to have zero business acumen. It's like no one ever even thinks about this being a business. Business? What's that? I hate to say this but I don't throw good money after bad, been that way for me for most of my life, so i quit giving to GT AA sometime back just because of this. I expect others have and will do the same going forward.
The whole thing needs to picked up, shaken out, evaluated as to who we are, where we are going, where can we realistically be in college athletics. It's obvious to me that if FB is where the money comes from you better put all the money that is needed into FB and then decide where you go with what is left over. You better make contracts that don't have the potential to destroy you or keep you constantly in a hole you can never get out of. If you don't do this then you are headed to complete self destruction.
My preference would be to pick out the sports you can afford to be in at the top level, and go for excellence. Sports from the customers standpoint is about winning, you better give that customer what they want or they take their money elsewhere. Obviously FB has to be one of those sports because that is where the money comes from for the whole thing, yes not totally but damn near. Drop FB and mens BB and see how much money the TV folks hand out, donors give etc.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,568
How about you give us the list of positives regarding our two biggest revenue sports that should make us believe Stansbury’s the man for the job?


Even if Pastner doesn't turn out to be the long term solution in basketball it's hard to argue that he wasn't a successful hire. The program went from being projected to win no conference games to having winning records in conference play in back to back years and being ACC champs for the first time in a quarter century.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,530
Other than hiring CGC and keeping him on throughout the total buyout portion of his contract, what particular decisions by TStan do you feel make him unfit to be AD?
I think there are a large number of people who understand Georgia Tech to be the football program. They don't understand that there is a university and a research institute that are larger and much more important than the football program. Along with that understanding, the university president should be fired if football isn't winning regardless of how the university or research institute are doing. Those people think that the athletic association IS football. If football isn't doing well then the athletic association is in shambles.

I have in previous posts put forth my belief that: As an organization the BoT should direct the AD and hold him accountable for the athletic association. The AD should hold each of the coaches and all of the admin staff accountable for things they are responsible for. I think an argument can be made that CGC wasn't held accountable at the end of last year. However arguments can be made that the athletic department didn't have the resources available to fire the coach AND put the program on a path to success. Arguments can be made that CGC was held accountable with ultimatums which resulted in his complete change with public demeanor and supposed focus on football.

I think Collins is on ice too thin for any recovery other than some kind of miracle. I think your descriptions of a mob mentality are leading to a desire to burn everything that remotely touches football to the ground and start over from scratch. I fear that we might end up throwing away the baby with the bathwater and be so far behind that GT athletics won't be able to recover.
 

SandySpringsJacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
239
I think the hire, length and structure of the contract are enough for him to be reassigned. Totally missed the mark on the biggest revenue sport and compounded the issue with a 7 year contract and no reduction in buyout until after Year 4. HUGE risk on an unproven coach. You could argue about basketball and baseball to some degree. I'm not disappointed that Pastner or Hall have been kept in place.

And he's a very poor communicator personally and for the program. Don't want to get personal, but I just don't think when you put football and his communication skills together, he does a great job. Just my $0.02.
In the AD’s defense, it may not have been unforgivable to give the new guy 4 years, or a full class of his own, to see if he can get the job done, especially moving away from the TO. I am not sure anyone could have predicted the complete abject historic failure that Collins has become. I do have an issue with making the full contract 7 years though.
 
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