Another recruiting philosophy

[Heisman's Ghost]

I think we all want to find a logical reason for perhaps illogical events, and most of the time it's just Occam's Razor at work. Lacking any credible accusation, and with a bit of anecdotal evidence to the contrary, I have to go with the integrity of the Clemson program. (The others I confess sometimes make me so blind mad I accused them of everything. For instance, I think Urban Meyer is a disgrace and has proved it in two major programs, and to read he is going to teach a college course on ethics is pretty sick. I mean, at a base level this is a guy who blamed his wife for supposedly not informing him that he had an abusive coach on staff.) My only evidence is that I have a close friend whom I trust implicitly, on the faculty at Clemson, and he in turn is a friend of Swinney. He swears by him and the honesty of his program. As to his intellect critics once love to spoof, he swears if Swinney were to attend faculty meetings, "most times he would be the smartest man in the room." That would go a long way to explaining his success.

You are probably right about Clemson but the practice has become so widespread and accepted in this jaded culture that personally I think just about most of the big factory schools are now engaging in the paying of players to one degree or another simply because they know their competition is doing it in the pursuit of elite players. I doubt anyone does it for three stars but I could be wrong about that.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

The NCAA with respect to catching and punishing factories for anything. (Yet they will throw the book at non-factories for the tiniest infractions.)

 

[Techster]

Great for you if you just want to prove someone wrong . Read what I said ( IF 247 was right ) second those the first two were not flips their offer was pulled because they took another visit after CPJ told everyone not to commit and then take a visit. IT was not them Tech pulled the offer . As for Damon Mitchell I have no idea who he is and don't care.

LOL, come on man. I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I'm just saying what you posted was not accurate on 247's part.

We can argue semantics, but those guys got on that plane knowing full well what CPJ's policy was...basically they decommitted to take the scholarship offer at the other school. Look at the pattern of everyone that had their scholarship "pulled": They got on that plane, and committed to the school they went to visit that weekend. I may be wrong (it won't be the first time), but I can't remember a recruit taking a visit to another school just to visit and have their scholarship pulled by CPJ and not having a scholarship at the school they visited. Us fans and the writers at the services can say "CPJ pulled the scholarship" all we want, but in essence recruits knew the policy, "got on that plane" and committed to the other schools. In essence they "decommitted" to take another offer on the table.

If you're engaged to someone, and you tell that person "If you get on that plane with Billy, our engagement is off!" Well, by getting on that plane with Billy, your fiancee just basically told you with her actions that she is no longer "committed" to you and "decommitted" to live happily ever after with Billy. You can try to save face and tell people that you broke it off and took the ring back ("Hey, I pulled the scholarship"), but in essence your fiancee's actions pretty much made that moot.

As for Damon Mitchell, he was a class of 2013 QB recruit who was committed to us since the summer of that recruiting season. He decided to "get on that plane" to Arkansas to take their scholarship offer. I know you "don't care", but it's just another instance that that list you posted was not correct on 247's part. (BTW, Mitchell was sold a false bill of goods by Arkansas and never really saw a snap at QB, and his career saw him moved all over the field. Eventually he ended up at Rutgers. Would have most likely been the successor to JeT had he signed with us.)

 

[Skeptic]

You are probably right about Clemson but the practice has become so widespread and accepted in this jaded culture that personally I think just about most of the big factory schools are now engaging in the paying of players to one degree or another simply because they know their competition is doing it in the pursuit of elite players. I doubt anyone does it for three stars but I could be wrong about that.

We can find hope in my first Little League experience. I was transferred to Hickam Field, and my shift NCO needed helped coaching his team. Had a great pitcher, he said. Terrific. Could not wait for the season. Went to tryouts with 20,000 points to stock his team, and bid 15,000 points for the lefthanded phenom, Tommy. So we had Tommy and , with the 5,000 points left, a bunch of salt licks, but who cares? We had Tommy. Except Sarge had never seen Tommy pitch to an actual batter, which Tommy found very difficult. As in, he couldn't. I mean, as in throw-it-over--the-backstop couldn't. Oddly enough Sarge missed an awful lot of games that year and I had to deal with Tommy. So maybe we can hope the factories throw everything at Tommy, and our 3-stars will, as they say, emerge victorious.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

We can find hope in my first Little League experience. I was transferred to Hickam Field, and my shift NCO needed helped coaching his team. Had a great pitcher, he said. Terrific. Could not wait for the season. Went to tryouts with 20,000 points to stock his team, and bid 15,000 points for the lefthanded phenom, Tommy. So we had Tommy and , with the 5,000 points left, a bunch of salt licks, but who cares? We had Tommy. Except Sarge had never seen Tommy pitch to an actual batter, which Tommy found very difficult. As in, he couldn't. I mean, as in throw-it-over--the-backstop couldn't. Oddly enough Sarge missed an awful lot of games that year and I had to deal with Tommy. So maybe we can hope the factories throw everything at Tommy, and our 3-stars will, as they say, emerge victorious.

Very reassuring but when was the last time a non factory won the national championship? I don't know but smoke and mirrors will not beat 4 and 5 star linemen.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

The NCAA with respect to catching and punishing factories for anything. (Yet they will throw the book at non-factories for the tiniest infractions.)

I knew I had seen these guys before. Were they the ones assigned to investigate the UNC academic cheating scandal?

 

[TechPreacher]

I think we all want to find a logical reason for perhaps illogical events, and most of the time it's just Occam's Razor at work. Lacking any credible accusation, and with a bit of anecdotal evidence to the contrary, I have to go with the integrity of the Clemson program. (The others I confess sometimes make me so blind mad I accused them of everything. For instance, I think Urban Meyer is a disgrace and has proved it in two major programs, and to read he is going to teach a college course on ethics is pretty sick. I mean, at a base level this is a guy who blamed his wife for supposedly not informing him that he had an abusive coach on staff.) My only evidence is that I have a close friend whom I trust implicitly, on the faculty at Clemson, and he in turn is a friend of Swinney. He swears by him and the honesty of his program. As to his intellect critics once love to spoof, he swears if Swinney were to attend faculty meetings, "most times he would be the smartest man in the room." That would go a long way to explaining his success.

Of course, no one at clemson pays players. No one at any of the schools do. But boosters do. And the schools do nothing to discourage it. It's a sin of omission, rather than commission.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Of course, no one at clemson pays players. No one at any of the schools do. But boosters do. And the schools do nothing to discourage it. It's a sin of omission, rather than commission.

Not only is it done by boosters, the schools encourage it and direct it where it will do most good with a nod and a wink for the obligatory plausible deniability. It is ongoing and it is pervasive regardless of what the NCAA might claim. At any rate, I regard the NCAA with utter total disdain. Their incompetence is exceeded only by their corruption.

 

[Skeptic]

Of course, no one at clemson pays players. No one at any of the schools do. But boosters do. And the schools do nothing to discourage it. It's a sin of omission, rather than commission.

Well, okay. But presenting what we think vs. what we know gets you a failing grade in a history class. I "think" some boosters do. I have heard anecdotal evidence they do. But I don't know it, and anyone who does is obligated to blow the whistle. More probable and more prevalent is the booster pushing 20 bucks at a player for hamburger money or such. I know that scares coaches more than the fear of buying players because they cannot educate their boosters enough that this stuff gets you on probation. (And I do think, contrary to what is going on now with the AAU and steering players to coaches who pay, that the vast majority of coaches in all sports are honorable people. That should not be news because they are supposed to be, and meeting that bar should not be "exceeding expectations" on the performance review. Winning doesn't have to mean cheating. Johnson won a bunch, and I never heard him accused of it.)

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Well, okay. But presenting what we think vs. what we know gets you a failing grade in a history class. I "think" some boosters do. I have heard anecdotal evidence they do. But I don't know it, and anyone who does is obligated to blow the whistle. More probable and more prevalent is the booster pushing 20 bucks at a player for hamburger money or such. I know that scares coaches more than the fear of buying players because they cannot educate their boosters enough that this stuff gets you on probation. (And I do think, contrary to what is going on now with the AAU and steering players to coaches who pay, that the vast majority of coaches in all sports are honorable people. That should not be news because they are supposed to be, and meeting that bar should not be "exceeding expectations" on the performance review. Winning doesn't have to mean cheating. Johnson won a bunch, and I never heard him accused of it.)

I appreciate your sentiments, I really do but if these coaches were honorable this would not be an issue. The coaches at the factories know this is going on and all but encourage it and we are not talking about buying hamburgers. When Alabama recruits post videos showing their new wheels. Well, that did not come from mowing lawns in the summer.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Well, okay. But presenting what we think vs. what we know gets you a failing grade in a history class. I "think" some boosters do. I have heard anecdotal evidence they do. But I don't know it, and anyone who does is obligated to blow the whistle. More probable and more prevalent is the booster pushing 20 bucks at a player for hamburger money or such. I know that scares coaches more than the fear of buying players because they cannot educate their boosters enough that this stuff gets you on probation. (And I do think, contrary to what is going on now with the AAU and steering players to coaches who pay, that the vast majority of coaches in all sports are honorable people. That should not be news because they are supposed to be, and meeting that bar should not be "exceeding expectations" on the performance review. Winning doesn't have to mean cheating. Johnson won a bunch, and I never heard him accused of it.)

Coach Johnson was "old school" in more ways that just the triple option. His ideas of right and wrong did not fade into 50 shades of gray. I complain about his recruiting and unwillingness to cut some assistants loose but never about the person. He was about as straight arrow as it gets in the coaching business. I mean, who would you rather have to dinner? Coach Johnson or someone like Nick Saban, Bobby Petrino, Kirby, Urban, etc.

 

[TechPreacher]

Saban owns a car dealership. Do you think that is for retirement?

 

[jojatk]

Not only is it done by boosters, the schools encourage it and direct it where it will do most good with a nod and a wink for the obligatory plausible deniability. It is ongoing and it is pervasive regardless of what the NCAA might claim. At any rate, I regard the NCAA with utter total disdain. Their incompetence is exceeded only by their corruption.

I literally could not agree with this statement about regarding the NCAA with disdain any more than I do. Over the last 5 years I've traveled to downtown Indianapolis quite a number of times (it's a fantastic city and I always enjoy going there). I usually go for a run in the morning or evening since I'm always staying downtown and my route takes me right past the NCAA headquarters. Most of the time I take the opportunity to spit on the ground as I run by. People probably think it's just a running thing but really it's me showing the NCAA what I think of it. I'm sure there are some good people there. But as an organization I think they stink.

 

[Skeptic]

Coach Johnson was "old school" in more ways that just the triple option. His ideas of right and wrong did not fade into 50 shades of gray. I complain about his recruiting and unwillingness to cut some assistants loose but never about the person. He was about as straight arrow as it gets in the coaching business. I mean, who would you rather have to dinner? Coach Johnson or someone like Nick Saban, Bobby Petrino, Kirby, Urban, etc.

I agree you about the assistants. Nobody wants to be a Saban and make sure an assistant takes the blame, but Johnson never in my view had a really strong coaching staff, and those who got hired stayed hired, with a particular affinity for former players. Despite some claims on the board, I never thought Johnson threw his assistants or his players under the bus. On the other hand, two of his assistants became very successful Division l coaches, and I always felt that losing Jeff Monken was devastating to GT. He was a guy who was never replaced. (I want to start my lobbying now for Monken as 2019 Coach of the Year. Should have won it twice already anyway.

 

[Skeptic]

I appreciate your sentiments, I really do but if these coaches were honorable this would not be an issue. The coaches at the factories know this is going on and all but encourage it and we are not talking about buying hamburgers. When Alabama recruits post videos showing their new wheels. Well, that did not come from mowing lawns in the summer.

Now, that depends on whose lawn, right?

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Now, that depends on whose lawn, right?

Also where. Here in Albany with a rather large elderly population, these lawn guys are everywhere. Personally, I am still push mowing my acre plus yard but I am cheap and contrarian. To each his own. Our grass growing season is easily 6 months so they have lots to do and must be able to make a decent living.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I agree you about the assistants. Nobody wants to be a Saban and make sure an assistant takes the blame, but Johnson never in my view had a really strong coaching staff, and those who got hired stayed hired, with a particular affinity for former players. Despite some claims on the board, I never thought Johnson threw his assistants or his players under the bus. On the other hand, two of his assistants became very successful Division l coaches, and I always felt that losing Jeff Monken was devastating to GT. He was a guy who was never replaced. (I want to start my lobbying now for Monken as 2019 Coach of the Year. Should have won it twice already anyway.

If they weren't good, a head coach would not lose them. I guess Coach Monken was the best assistant? Don't know but many people seem to disparage some of the others. Coach Johnson did rather pointedly complain one year that when the defense runs around not making plays we as coaches need to be held accountable. He was sort of, kind of, throwing Al Groh under the bus a bit but that is the only instance I can recall.

 

[Skeptic]

If they weren't good, a head coach would not lose them. I guess Coach Monken was the best assistant? Don't know but many people seem to disparage some of the others. Coach Johnson did rather pointedly complain one year that when the defense runs around not making plays we as coaches need to be held accountable. He was sort of, kind of, throwing Al Groh under the bus a bit but that is the only instance I can recall.

I can't point to something he did specifically, but where Johnson went on the sidelines Monken was right beside him, and when he left for GSU, I thought Tech lost something it never regained. I just can't specify what. But the job Monken has done at Army is nothing short of spectacular. Almost immediately he made Army-Navy a must-watch rivalry after a decade of Navy dominance, and to get 11 wins at a service academy is almost unheard of. I'm still lobbying for coach of the year