Addressing the Vad Lee situation

Status
Not open for further replies.

bke1984

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,321
Like I posted earlier I was told 2-4...Vad was the one I knew of.

Bostic, Zenon and Bailey are ones to watch.

Bailey would hurt...not sure the other two would be huge losses from a production standpoint. Odd though, they're all RS Juniors. Are they all on pace to graduate? If so, then I guess it makes sense...nab the degree and head somewhere you can get more PT. If they're not going to graduate then this decision is just baffling...
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Messages
9,088
Location
Marietta, GA
Saw it all, backpedaling from a rush is a coaching issue not player. Fix the problem!!!! Did you never see "disclosure" with Michael Douglas and Demi Moore? Stop getting bogged down in the small things and see the bigger picture. Why does Sewak still have a job???
I'm comfortable thinking that he has been coached to step up in the pocket, but just doesn't do it because his instincts tell him to step back and then throw off of the back foot. BTW - I also don't think he has been coached to throw off his back foot by any coaches he has ever been under...
 

Eric

Retired Co-Founder
Staff member
Messages
12,734
Bailey would hurt...not sure the other two would be huge losses from a production standpoint. Odd though, they're all RS Juniors. Are they all on pace to graduate? If so, then I guess it makes sense...nab the degree and head somewhere you can get more PT. If they're not going to graduate then this decision is just baffling...

None of these are official yet..they could end up staying but are ones to watch.
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,675
First post but felt compelled to do so. Some people on here are ridiculous.

1. CPJ is not a liar. Any ability to pass in this offense is predicated on the run, period. Vad could not run the option effectively. I’m sure CPJ assumed as any of you would have that a very smart and very athletic hs qb could come in and learn the option stuff. Would you rather he recruit a raw athlete and teach him how to pass or a athletic qb and teach him how to run? If VL had picked up the option he would have passed more in this offense based on what the defense gave us. We were never going to become a pass-first team and you can be sure he never promised that.

2. 50% completion percentage in this offense would be damn good. What percentage of passes in this offense are greater than 10yds? 15yds? Hint, it’s a lot. Take a look at the following stats for the top qbs in the ncaa this year. Anything jump out at you? For the lazy, I’ll summarize: Qbs with gaudy completion stats throw a lot of passes less than 10yds. VL made some great throws this season. He’s a good qb, but he never bought in to this offense. And he was in way too many obvious passing situations. http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2244447/QBCompletion.jpg

3. Our OL is above average. Any ability to run in this offense is predicated on making the right reads, period. OL was definitely not great but for what we need them to do I thought they did a good job. You can make arguments about Sewak, false starts, etc but honestly the players there weren’t the issue. No, they’re not great in pass blocking or picking up blitzers in obvious passing situations but I’m not sure we can reasonably expect that. It was obvious the offense had bigger issues than the OL.

Looking forward to next season. Wish Vad success wherever he goes. He’s a good kid.
Welcome to the board and great first post! I concur completely.
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Messages
9,088
Location
Marietta, GA
Drew,

This offense is not built to be a passing offense. Why would you recruit a passing QB?

Really??? you don't think we'd pass more if we did it well in practice? I'm hard pressed to think that's true. Passing for the sake of passing is senseless. If we are doing it well we'll continue to do it. There were may times when - under "normal" pressure - the ball was not thrown well by VL. Ex. 1st pass of the bowl game...
 

DvilleJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,448
The run blocking must be so complex for these STUDENTS, the passing game must barely be practiced as much by the results of blocking, passing, and receiver routes. Just not allowed the time to do so.
 

Rodney Kent

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
558
Location
McDonough, GA
Why Bostic and Zenon, if it is true. It appears obvious to me. One of the biggest attributes to have in football is speed, and both Bostic and Zenon have plenty. Most likely both of them were recruited by some of the lesser schools who knew they had a chance to make a big impact in their system. Along comes a coach who says they will work great as A Backs in his system. They are talked into coming to Tech to be stars in the A Back slot, but seldom see the field. Since they are not seeing the field, they agree that they love the game and want to be on the field; nothing wrong with this. So, they decide to transfer to a smaller school where they will play, have a better chance of playing time, and enjoy football again. I see nothing wrong with this; it makes sense to me.

Since these two had speed to burn, they could at least been slotted for the kickoff returns, but as in all other situations, their talent (speed) must be considered as their best attribute. The most vital aspect of kickoff returns is speed, speed, and speed. Many coaches try to run the speed backs behind a mass of blockers which really slows the runners down and makes their speed innefective. The absolutely best kickoff return method is to have the blockers go upfield, engage a tackler and either bring him down or slow him up. Then you tell the speedy back, you are on your own; you catch the ball, pick out a lane that looks less congested, turn on the burners and run toward the open spaces. Also, the runner should be benched if he ever slows to try and sidestep a tackler. All the fastest tacklers on the kickoff team, so you only have a tenth or couple of tenths of a second before they catch up to the runner. Therefore, it is imperative that the runner NEVER slows for any reason, but he should keep the burners on for the entire run. If he tries to evade a tackler, it should be at the burner speed, but NEVER slow down to sidestep a tackler. Watch all the good returners, they are speedsters and always goes at top speed looking for spaces.

My bet is if these two has been kickoff returners and the system was designed to let the returners pick their routes at full speed, both would have been good return players. Players should have their talents used in some way other than keeping a bench warm. If they felt their efforts were appreciated and they felt part of the team, they would not leave.
 

Rodney Kent

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
558
Location
McDonough, GA
flounder: I remember them being tried a few times, but it was with the wrong kickoff return system. The system was not set up for their speed; it was set up for the old wedge or mass type of blocking at some point on the field, and they were required to follow the wedge or the mass blocking hoping to break through. This is not good for speed as the blockers in front of the ball carriers actually slows the runners. The system should be changed where all the blockers just go up the field, pick out someone to block or slow and let the runner pick his own route. Let the runner catch the ball, look up field and then turn on the burners toward open spaces.

Even if there are one or two tacklers in that vicinity, he might outrun them, they might trip, they might misjudge their angle or distance, etal. Let them choose their path and then turn on the burners. Again, coaches sometimes have their own ideas about wedges, mass blocking at a point on the field, etal, and this does not fit the style or speed of the returner. Speed, speed, speed, speed, is the best tool of the kickoff returner. It puts the pressure on the tacklers.
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Messages
9,088
Location
Marietta, GA
First post but felt compelled to do so. Some people on here are ridiculous.

1. CPJ is not a liar. Any ability to pass in this offense is predicated on the run, period. Vad could not run the option effectively. I’m sure CPJ assumed as any of you would have that a very smart and very athletic hs qb could come in and learn the option stuff. Would you rather he recruit a raw athlete and teach him how to pass or a athletic qb and teach him how to run? If VL had picked up the option he would have passed more in this offense based on what the defense gave us. We were never going to become a pass-first team and you can be sure he never promised that.

2. 50% completion percentage in this offense would be damn good. What percentage of passes in this offense are greater than 10yds? 15yds? Hint, it’s a lot. Take a look at the following stats for the top qbs in the ncaa this year. Anything jump out at you? For the lazy, I’ll summarize: Qbs with gaudy completion stats throw a lot of passes less than 10yds. VL made some great throws this season. He’s a good qb, but he never bought in to this offense. And he was in way too many obvious passing situations. http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2244447/QBCompletion.jpg

3. Our OL is above average. Any ability to run in this offense is predicated on making the right reads, period. OL was definitely not great but for what we need them to do I thought they did a good job. You can make arguments about Sewak, false starts, etc but honestly the players there weren’t the issue. No, they’re not great in pass blocking or picking up blitzers in obvious passing situations but I’m not sure we can reasonably expect that. It was obvious the offense had bigger issues than the OL.

Looking forward to next season. Wish Vad success wherever he goes. He’s a good kid.

Darn good first post!
Folks get to wrapped up in the %. Better to look at the efficiency ratings. Our smoke routes should be high percentage passes but many times this year we saw skipped or over thrown attempts on those.
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Messages
9,088
Location
Marietta, GA
Luck threw the ball 288, 372, and 404 times in his career at Stanford. Vad attempted 56 and 180 passes in comparison. So Luck was throwing the ball at a pace of about 2x what we did.
... maybe if Vad had better pocket presence that ration would be closer to 1.25X...
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Messages
9,088
Location
Marietta, GA
The JT home run threat would be huge...as would adding a home run threat at B-back. This year our only long play threats where at A-back. When that's the case, the defense will just force the QB to keep the ball and it's very tough on the offense. If Justin can get his reads down and work on ball security, he's going to be a very special player. Furthermore, if Custis turns out to be a serious threat at B-back, we're going to be much better on offense than we were this season.

He has to learn to hold the ball closer to his body when running in the open. During the spring game and during action during the season he appears to be holding it like a loaf of bread... I kept waiting for the ball to just slip from his grasp. W/o watching practices, maybe that is another reason he didn't start. Just a thought.
 

Squints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,042
flounder: I remember them being tried a few times, but it was with the wrong kickoff return system. The system was not set up for their speed; it was set up for the old wedge or mass type of blocking at some point on the field, and they were required to follow the wedge or the mass blocking hoping to break through. This is not good for speed as the blockers in front of the ball carriers actually slows the runners. The system should be changed where all the blockers just go up the field, pick out someone to block or slow and let the runner pick his own route. Let the runner catch the ball, look up field and then turn on the burners toward open spaces.

Even if there are one or two tacklers in that vicinity, he might outrun them, they might trip, they might misjudge their angle or distance, etal. Let them choose their path and then turn on the burners. Again, coaches sometimes have their own ideas about wedges, mass blocking at a point on the field, etal, and this does not fit the style or speed of the returner. Speed, speed, speed, speed, is the best tool of the kickoff returner. It puts the pressure on the tacklers.

I'd say vision is probably the most important tool of the kickoff returner. Doesn't matter how fast you are if you can't find the lanes. Bostic in particular has shown pretty poor vision from what I remember.

We've had players succeed in this "system" so I think you're overvaluing speed in this context and as a result the two players.
 

BranMart

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
75
This offense is too complicated to be run consistently with the short amount of time we have for practice. That is it in a nutshell. If a college offense is so complicated it takes 3 years to run it half assed, then it needs to go. 3 years is what great players expect to be in college before they bolt to the NFL. Not that we get many of those players....

We get some of the smartest kids in the nation and they cannot do it effectively. Listen to the stars at the factories talk, look at their majors. Not the brightest overall, but they can figure out how to run an offense in a short time. Is that the system, the talent, the coaching, what? I think the Paul Johnson experiment is a failure. It has not done what it was intended to do, compete with the big boys with our lesser talent.

Just look at the bowl performances. There is no chance of ever winning a national championship with this system. A few weeks before the playoff starts will give the talented playoff teams time to prepare to stop it. Just like every bowl team we have faced. The playoff committee will believe that and never put us in.
 

Animal02

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,054
Location
Southeastern Michigan
This offense is too complicated to be run consistently with the short amount of time we have for practice. That is it in a nutshell. If a college offense is so complicated it takes 3 years to run it half assed, then it needs to go. 3 years is what great players expect to be in college before they bolt to the NFL. Not that we get many of those players....

We get some of the smartest kids in the nation and they cannot do it effectively. Listen to the stars at the factories talk, look at their majors. Not the brightest overall, but they can figure out how to run an offense in a short time. Is that the system, the talent, the coaching, what? I think the Paul Johnson experiment is a failure. It has not done what it was intended to do, compete with the big boys with our lesser talent.

Just look at the bowl performances. There is no chance of ever winning a national championship with this system. A few weeks before the playoff starts will give the talented playoff teams time to prepare to stop it. Just like every bowl team we have faced. The playoff committee will believe that and never put us in.

Funny, Tevin ran the offense effectively. Didn't have a defense to back him up. WRT bowl performances, EVERY team has time to prepare to stop EVERY offensive scheme. The playoff "committee" for the most part is going to be of no consequence. For the most part, they will decide the 4th to make the cut. The way to play for the NC is the same way Tech won it the last time they did......go undefeated.
 
Messages
2,077
Luck threw the ball 288, 372, and 404 times in his career at Stanford. Vad attempted 56 and 180 passes in comparison. So Luck was throwing the ball at a pace of about 2x what we did.
And do you think there was any good reason that Andrew Luck had passing plays called for him at such a high rate? Or was it just coinky-dink?
 
Messages
2,077
This offense is too complicated to be run consistently with the short amount of time we have for practice. That is it in a nutshell. If a college offense is so complicated it takes 3 years to run it half assed, then it needs to go. 3 years is what great players expect to be in college before they bolt to the NFL. Not that we get many of those players....

We get some of the smartest kids in the nation and they cannot do it effectively. Listen to the stars at the factories talk, look at their majors. Not the brightest overall, but they can figure out how to run an offense in a short time. Is that the system, the talent, the coaching, what? I think the Paul Johnson experiment is a failure. It has not done what it was intended to do, compete with the big boys with our lesser talent.

Just look at the bowl performances. There is no chance of ever winning a national championship with this system. A few weeks before the playoff starts will give the talented playoff teams time to prepare to stop it. Just like every bowl team we have faced. The playoff committee will believe that and never put us in.
Stop it please. Any person out there that has one inkling of a dream of a national championship for Georgia Tech is in need of immediate help. But what is wrong with hoping for and expecting that we have a program that can win the Coastal now and then and go to a major bowl once in awhile? NC, no.
 

Rodney Kent

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
558
Location
McDonough, GA
I watch about every game that comes on TV and have for years. If you watch the good kickoff returners, most of them look for an open space, turn on the burners and never slow or stop for a sidestep. It is strictly straight ahead speed. Then watch those that do not return kickoffs well, they try to run behind blockers and wedges, yet they have to slow and the speed of the defense catches them very quickly. Too many try to feint, dodge, sidestep, etal, only to be stopped for little gain. How a runner carries the ball is of little significance as this can be corrected. If you consider that there is only a few tenths of a second between the returner and the horde of tacklers, it is easy to see that slowing down for a couple tenths of a second neutralizes the advantage a fast returner has in his total speed. It only takes a few tenths of a second for all the tacklers to get to him.
 

flounder

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
306
Location
Lynchburg, VA
Jamal Golden seemed to have pretty good success in our return system. I'm not sure why we should change one of the few things that's worked for us in special teams.
 

Tempest_12

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
162
This offense is too complicated to be run consistently with the short amount of time we have for practice. That is it in a nutshell. If a college offense is so complicated it takes 3 years to run it half assed, then it needs to go. 3 years is what great players expect to be in college before they bolt to the NFL. Not that we get many of those players....

We get some of the smartest kids in the nation and they cannot do it effectively. Listen to the stars at the factories talk, look at their majors. Not the brightest overall, but they can figure out how to run an offense in a short time. Is that the system, the talent, the coaching, what? I think the Paul Johnson experiment is a failure. It has not done what it was intended to do, compete with the big boys with our lesser talent.

Just look at the bowl performances. There is no chance of ever winning a national championship with this system. A few weeks before the playoff starts will give the talented playoff teams time to prepare to stop it. Just like every bowl team we have faced. The playoff committee will believe that and never put us in.

Tell that to Nebraska. We can win a NC, we have to go undefeated just like every other team that isn't in the SEC.

Zenon only returned kicks because Golden is injured. <- Fact.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top