ACC 2019-2020

[RamblinRed]

JWF pretty much single handedly kept Pitt in the game at McCamish last year. It also helped that Jose basically outplayed Johnson and McGowens combined.
JWF was their leading scorer 5 of their last 7 games and half of their last 14 games. As teams got more film on Johnson and McGowens they were able to defend them better and JWF was really the only other player on that team who had the experience and skillset to help offset that some.

 

[RamblinRed]

Given our recent history ,incremental improvement is probably the best we can realistically expect(can always hope for more and just live with the ensueing frustrations). But still, i'd like to have heard the Louiville fan reactions if Coach Mack had said " We can get to the tourney in my fifth year and i think i wanna make it in year 4"

We are not L'ville - have nowhere near their history or resources (they are the richest basketball program in college basketball) and we simply aren't playing the same game as them (both on the court and otherwise).
They should have different expectations based on history and resources than GT fans should.

 

[Peacone36]

JWF pretty much single handedly kept Pitt in the game at McCamish last year. It also helped that Jose basically outplayed Johnson and McGowens combined.
JWF was their leading scorer 5 of their last 7 games and half of their last 14 games. As teams got more film on Johnson and McGowens they were able to defend them better and JWF was really the only other player on that team who had the experience and skillset to help offset that some.

I haven’t seen an official stat but I think what really helped him last season was he was able to catch and shoot as opposed to shooting off the dribble. The year before he shot terribly, but he was also handling the ball.

 

[GT_EE78]

We are not L'ville - have nowhere near their history or resources (they are the richest basketball program in college basketball) and we simply aren't playing the same game as them (both on the court and otherwise).
They should have different expectations based on history and resources than GT fans should.

you and many others throw it out there that others are paying their players but no one posts evidence. (The FBI has certainly helped to expose some of that and i hope those who deserve it get caught) I realize it's possible and likely that some are but i still take those assertions with a grain of salt.

 

[MiracleWhips]

"I’d really like that figured out by the first game. Last year, we got to conference play, and we hadn’t worked out our offensive identity yet (or barely had). "

The above is an important statement by Slugboy. It's something I'm hoping our summer trip will help with. since basically everyone we would expect to be a significant contributor will be on the trip we should be able to get some of the rotations and the like figured out earlier.

Also, given the expansion to 20 conference games and having early conference games it is going to be more important to get your rotations and style of play figured out more quickly in future years.

It is sort of unlucky that we open the season on the road against an ACC opponent that we will be fighting for a spot with and they also return alot of their team.

I also agree we really need to find a way to beat up on those bottom 5 teams. We play 7 games against my likely bottom 5 - home and away against Pitt, and Clemson. Home against VT, away against Wake and BC. it sure would be nice to win like 6 of those. That would mean winning at least 2 of the 3 road games and not messing up any of the 3 home game.

Finally, given that we likely open the season at NCST and then home against UGA (2 teams that will be expected to make the tourney next year) - having both Usher and Parham available from game 1 would be a huge help. Getting UGA early may help as they will have alot of FR they have to get into the rotation and used to playing college basketball.

Do you think Pastner needs to change the offense again?

 

[RamblinRed]

you and many others throw it out there that others are paying their players but no one posts evidence. (The FBI has certainly helped to expose some of that and i hope those who deserve it get caught) I realize it's possible and likely that some are but i still take those assertions with a grain of salt.

It was pretty clear extracurricular's were going on at L'ville.
From stripper parties in the dorm to kids being paid to attend school there (which Pitino may actually not have known about), there's plenty of evidence for that at L'ville.

The trials have exposed very little partially because the government's case required making the assertion that the Universities were victims, so they didn't want most of the detail out there.

it also only looked at Adidas, which frankly is running a significantly smaller operation than Nike.

if you wanted me to guess i'd say more than 50% of power conference schools are breaking NCAA rules.

But with L'ville, the bigger issue to me isn't whether they were paying kids - it's that they have a much more significant history than GT and put alot more resources into their basketball program than GT does. They pay Mack by himself over $4M. Our entire personnel budget is under $3M. They have alot more money to spend on basketball and they do so. That was what I was referring to, way more than any payments to players.

Schools that are deciding to put significant resources into their basketball programs are the ones that are and will continue to do well. it starts with being willing to pay for a HC and his assts. Then it goes to giving bigger budgets for recruiting and facilities.
That's a big reason UGA had a big recruiting class. With all their FB money the SEC has decided to spend more on BB and it will pay off for them.
UGA is paying Crean and his assts over $4M yr.
Book Richardson is on tape saying it is hard to recruit against SEC schools because alot of the kids are getting 30, 40K to go to school. Even if he is exaggerating some I don't doubt they are plenty of kids who should not be eligible by current NCAA rules.

GT has largely been trying to play basketball on the cheap and as long as it does there is a ceiling to what it can do.

 

[GT_EE78]

GT has largely been trying to play basketball on the cheap and as long as it does there is a ceiling to what it can do.

So, you're saying that there's hope for the future?

 

[Peacone36]

you and many others throw it out there that others are paying their players but no one posts evidence. (The FBI has certainly helped to expose some of that and i hope those who deserve it get caught) I realize it's possible and likely that some are but i still take those assertions with a grain of salt.

cmon.........cmonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Depaul is cheating and still not getting players. You think Samuel Williamson didnt have guys offering him cash?

 

[RamblinRed]

First, this from before the scandal broke, talks about how cheating in recruiting has changed (sort of plays into exactly what scandal uncovered)
Almost 3X as many coaches said cheating is worse than it was 5 years ago than say it is better.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...sketball-recruiting-isnt-getting-any-cleaner/

This from last fall. about a 50/50 split on whether the scandal has reduced cheating.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...antly-reduced-cheating-in-the-past-10-months/

On one of the podcasts a few weeks ago Matt Norlander mentioned he had a number of coaches call him after Will Wade was reinstated at LSU really mad. Not because they don't like him, but because if someone was cheating as blatantly as he was and nothing happens, what reason is there for anyone not to cheat and even try to do things the 'right' way.

do I think Zion went to Duke for 'free' when there are tapes where his family members are asking for benefits from other schools. Heck no.
Do I have any proof duke or any shoe company or any agent provided benefits to Zion and/or his family - absolutely not.
But i think it stretches rational belief to believe family gave up 6 figure numbers for Zion to go somewhere for free.

It also often not the school paying the SA. Alot of the times it is a shoe company, or an agent/runner who provide benefits to family/friends/influencers to get the SA to go to a school that they are comfortable with (one where they expect the SA will end up back signing a contract with them). There is a reason most of the top Nike kids end up at the top Nike schools, why alot of the top Adidas kids end up at Kansas and L'ville. Some of it has to do with the tradition and quality of the coaches -but that is certainly not always why.

When you see alot of smoke rising from a forest and you don't see a fire you can argue there is no fire because you cannot see it, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

[ESPNjacket]

you and many others throw it out there that others are paying their players but no one posts evidence. (The FBI has certainly helped to expose some of that and i hope those who deserve it get caught) I realize it's possible and likely that some are but i still take those assertions with a grain of salt.

There has been plenty of evidence posted. If you are one of the guys on here that insists on seeing a video of K hand delivering a box of cash or writing a personal check you will never be convinced. That isn't how it works.

 

[GT_EE78]

.

Thanks for those links.I'm gonna read them before responding

 

[RamblinRed]

I haven’t seen an official stat but I think what really helped him last season was he was able to catch and shoot as opposed to shooting off the dribble. The year before he shot terribly, but he was also handling the ball.

I was taking a peak at the Pitt board this afternoon and frankly it wouldn't surprise me if they are not any better than last season.
Their starting 5 right now would likely be SO Johnson, SO McGowens, FR Drumgoole, SO Toney, JR Brown
Bench would be FR Coulibaly (4/5), FR Champagnie (3/4), JR Murphy (2/1)

You would expect the SO to be better, but Drumgoole for JWF is a huge downgrade and Brown should be better at C, but your backup situation is not good.
They really need to add at least a solid backup big man and frankly a true PG as i'm not sure they really have one.
That's a roster that has some decent young talent but looks to be at least 2 ones and at least one strong recruiting class away.

 

[Connell62]

Thanks for those links.I'm gonna read them before responding

Okay, we will all wait for your summary and see if you arrive at a different conclusion.

 

[Peacone36]

I was taking a peak at the Pitt board this afternoon and frankly it wouldn't surprise me if they are not any better than last season.
Their starting 5 right now would likely be SO Johnson, SO McGowens, FR Drumgoole, SO Toney, JR Brown
Bench would be FR Coulibaly (4/5), FR Champagnie (3/4), JR Murphy (2/1)

You would expect the SO to be better, but Drumgoole for JWF is a huge downgrade and Brown should be better at C, but your backup situation is not good.
They really need to add at least a solid backup big man and frankly a true PG as i'm not sure they really have one.
That's a roster that has some decent young talent but looks to be at least 2 ones and at least one strong recruiting class away.

I can see that side. I am and always have been a believer in Terrell Brown, for what specific reason I couldn’t tell you.

Also, for all the love Johnson rcvd, I think McGowens is the guy to watch. He went for 30 or more multiple times last year. That back court could be scary but they do have question marks in the front court.

The other bottom four are just so bad that I think if any of those 5 were to overachieve it would be Pitt, however unlikely that is.

 

[mstranahan]

they both need to be in the 15 PPG range.

So, in order for us to make the tourney, we'll have to have two of the top scorers in the league? Only 17 ACC players averaged 14.5 or better last year.
UNC had 3
UVA, Duke, VPI, & BC each had 2
6 teams had 1
4 teams (including Tech) didn't have anyone avg 14.5

Averaging 15 is a lot harder than people think

 

[Peacone36]

So, in order for us to make the tourney, we'll have to have two of the top scorers in the league? Only 17 ACC players averaged 14.5 or better last year.
UNC had 3
UVA, Duke, VPI, & BC each had 2
6 teams had 1
4 teams (including Tech) didn't have anyone avg 14.5

Averaging 15 is a lot harder than people think

We need to combine our defense, which is one of the best nationally (seriously, that zone is bonkers) with a team that’s competent from deep. IMHO, it’s that simple.

 

[YlJacket]

So, in order for us to make the tourney, we'll have to have two of the top scorers in the league? Only 17 ACC players averaged 14.5 or better last year.
UNC had 3
UVA, Duke, VPI, & BC each had 2
6 teams had 1
4 teams (including Tech) didn't have anyone avg 14.5

Averaging 15 is a lot harder than people think

For us to make it I do think both need to be in the 15 range (call it down to 14 or so) - depending on what happens with the waiver and minutes for Parham. 7 teams made it to the tourney - 4 of them with 2 scorers above 15 or so. Of the others FSU and Louisville were a lot deeper than we are and got scoring from more players than I expect us to. At this point I don't have an expectation that we will have several players averaging around 10 or 11 per game like those teams did.

 

[73CAV]

I was taking a peak at the Pitt board this afternoon and frankly it wouldn't surprise me if they are not any better than last season.
Their starting 5 right now would likely be SO Johnson, SO McGowens, FR Drumgoole, SO Toney, JR Brown
Bench would be FR Coulibaly (4/5), FR Champagnie (3/4), JR Murphy (2/1)

You would expect the SO to be better, but Drumgoole for JWF is a huge downgrade and Brown should be better at C, but your backup situation is not good.
They really need to add at least a solid backup big man and frankly a true PG as i'm not sure they really have one.
That's a roster that has some decent young talent but looks to be at least 2 ones and at least one strong recruiting class away.

It would appear that Julian Champagnie has committed to St. John's.

 

[Peacone36]

It would appear that Julian Champagnie has committed to St. John's.

They are twin brothers. Julian and Justin.

 

[73CAV]

They are twin brothers. Julian and Justin.

Thanks. It's getting so I have trouble keeping up sometimes. Especially, with things Pitt