Academic Requirements for Recruits

[33jacket]

So in watching the games yesterday, I remember the scholar players of the ACCCG. Clemson was and Ag-Econ major and UVA was an Education major........I would bet the LSU and UGA guys were similar. I think there are some guys we can get but based on what I have been told, by actual grads, the football players have to take and pass many of the same core classes as the rest of the school, and I promise you, the vast majority of the players at MBS yesterday could not do that.

Its impossible to accurately predict which kid in high school can do the work vs which cant when we let kids in with 950 sats. Impossible. We can pretend we filter. But we let a ton of recruits in with 900 to 1000 sats that do just fine. Some dont. But mostly they do just fine because in study hall the tutors are good and they give the players the tests.

Heck. Its not predictable which 1450 sat kids can do it

Its a crap shoot.

 

[bobongo]

Paul convinced the Hill to let him have a good number of "exceptions" for recruits. I'm guessing that Geoff got the same deal or, perhaps, a few more. No doubt some of our present recruits came in under that.

Problem = it took awhile and a good record with both progress to graduation and, you know, actual graduation to get the exceptions. One of Tech's difficulties is that a good record on the field + a poor record for progress/graduation = the exceptions get withdrawn. No one should be operating here under the delusion that we can have the same kind of lienience toward academic performance that, say, UNC or da U have. If we don't keep the same standards going forward, the exceptions will be withdrawn. And TStan won't do a thing about it; the academics come first.

This is a simple fact of how the place works. Get used to it.

It's a reasonable compromise.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Its impossible to accurately predict which kid in high school can do the work vs which cant when we let kids in with 950 sats. Impossible. We can pretend we filter. But we let a ton of recruits in with 900 to 1000 sats that do just fine. Some dont. But mostly they do just fine because in study hall the tutors are good and they give the players the tests.

Heck. Its not predictable which 1450 sat kids can do it

Its a crap shoot.

Absolutely true. Fact is only 25% of all those that go to college actually graduate. Funny story, my son is a Freshmen at Colorado Mesa and he is looking to change dorm rooms this next semester, his current roommate has his girlfriend there all the time. The RA said shouldn't be a problem as a bunch of rooms are now available as many flunked out this semester.

 

[bobongo]

Absolutely true. Fact is only 25% of all those that go to college actually graduate. Funny story, my son is a Freshmen at Colorado Mesa and he is looking to change dorm rooms this next semester, his current roommate has his girlfriend there all the time. The RA said shouldn't be a problem as a bunch of rooms are now available as many flunked out this semester.

25%?

Most ACC schools have a graduation rate around 85 - 95% overall for student/athletes. Even the lowest for football (UNC, FSU) are over 60%. (2018 numbers)

 

[Coloradojacket]

25%?

Most ACC schools have a graduation rate around 85 - 95% overall for student/athletes. Even the lowest for football (UNC, FSU) are over 60%. (2018 numbers)

Just looked it up, it is actually now 33%. This is for the entire student body. UGA is around 50% for the football team.When last I saw and yes it seems student athletes do better.....maybe less partying....

 

[GTRambler]

Has anyone seen — or read — any published minimum academic requirements for prospective football recruits at Georgia Tech?

I haven’t. So I believe it is a big unknown.

But I wouldn’t be surprised if “some strings are pulled,” though.

 

[bobongo]

Just looked it up, it is actually now 33%. This is for the entire student body. UGA is around 50% for the football team.When last I saw and yes it seems student athletes do better.....maybe less partying....

And the incentive that if you don't make the grade you can't play (yes, I know some corruptions exist). Maybe college football and its "dumb as rocks" "hired hands" are getting a bit of a bad rap.

 

[bobongo]

Has anyone seen — or read — any published minimum academic requirements for prospective football recruits at Georgia Tech?

I haven’t. So I believe it is a big unknown.

But I wouldn’t be surprised if “some strings are pulled,” though.

A fairly lengthy thread was devoted to this question with no specific clear answer. I don't think there are any concrete absolute numbers.

 

[GTRambler]

I would love to know how this works. Who decides the number of exceptions. I assume it is not the board of regents. It is not the AA. So is it someone on the hill that decides? I really do want to know what the process is to define the number of exceptions.

I know it is not the coaching staff.

Yes, I really would like to know, too. I don’t think anyone here on this board knows, either, other than perhaps a former GT football player (or several?) who post on this board. And I don’t remember reading anything from them about such academic requirements. Have I missed anything?

 

[gthxxxx]

Just looked it up, it is actually now 33%. This is for the entire student body. UGA is around 50% for the football team.When last I saw and yes it seems student athletes do better.....maybe less partying....

I see 39% graduate within 4 years, 80% within 5 years, and 85% within 6 years for the latest undergraduate student body stats [1].

[1] https://irp.gatech.edu/sites/defaul...FactBook/mini_fb_2018_UPDATED_14-May-2019.pdf ; pg.10

 

[33jacket]

Yes, I really would like to know, too. I don’t think anyone here on this board knows, either, other than perhaps a former GT football player (or several?) who post on this board. And I don’t remember reading anything from them about such academic requirements. Have I missed anything?

Every SA admitted on the football team with a ship, or almost every, is an exception when compared to the normal student at tech. Ok. So thats a fact

When we talk exceptions what we are talking about is the exception of admitting an SA below the SA standard, or, on the thin line.

Our standard is roughly 3 fold; there is more too it but generally
- has to have enough years of high school math. This is above ncaa min.

- gpa we generally weight more than sat.

- we allow sat range based on a sliding scale when compared to gpa. Higher gpa. Lower sat is acceptable. And vice versa. Generally we try to do this above ncaa mins

This last point is the one that often is loose. We have let kids in, with 890 sats and mid 2s gpa; as the exception. And u know what. All of those that i know of. Graduated.

So the whole thing if u ask me is a joke.

A total joke

The big limiter for us is less about admissions and more about few degrees and kids scared of all the math

 

[Coloradojacket]

Every SA admitted on the football team with a ship, or almost every, is an exception when compared to the normal student at tech. Ok. So thats a fact

When we talk exceptions what we are talking about is the exception of admitting an SA below the SA standard, or, on the thin line.

Our standard is roughly 3 fold; there is more too it but generally
- has to have enough years of high school math. This is above ncaa min.

- gpa we generally weight more than sat.

- we allow sat range based on a sliding scale when compared to gpa. Higher gpa. Lower sat is acceptable. And vice versa. Generally we try to do this above ncaa mins

This last point is the one that often is loose. We have let kids in, with 890 sats and mid 2s gpa; as the exception. And u know what. All of those that i know of. Graduated.

So the whole thing if u ask me is a joke.

A total joke

The big limiter for us is less about admissions and more about few degrees and kids scared of all the math

Been saying this al along, the math and lack of degrees....and you know what......it is never going to change because the powers that be will never allow Tech to open up more degrees. That said, most players get the basic business management degree so would still say it is the math requirement.

 

[slugboy]

For some, it’s math that’s a limiting factor. Some students would like a great business degree, and we can connect with them.
Sometimes, you’ll have players who are using athletics as their ticket towards a degree. If we offer the degree they want, we’re great. If they want to major in Art or French History, not so much.
Some of the students want to focus on athletics; they love football and want to become a player, and if that fails they want to be a coach or an agent or a broadcaster. Not having Education or traditional Journalism degrees is a drawback there.
Short version: there’s some disadvantages to our curriculum, but it’s not as big as it’s made out to be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gthxxxx]

I see 39% graduate within 4 years, 80% within 5 years, and 85% within 6 years for the latest undergraduate student body stats [1].

[1] https://irp.gatech.edu/sites/defaul...FactBook/mini_fb_2018_UPDATED_14-May-2019.pdf ; pg.10

Minor correction; latest complete 4th, 5th, and 6th is actually 40%, 82%, and 87% based on (incoming) class of 2012. For the class of 2014 (again, incoming not graduating), 46% graduate within 4 years.

 

[GoldZ]

Every SA admitted on the football team with a ship, or almost every, is an exception when compared to the normal student at tech. Ok. So thats a fact

When we talk exceptions what we are talking about is the exception of admitting an SA below the SA standard, or, on the thin line.

Our standard is roughly 3 fold; there is more too it but generally
- has to have enough years of high school math. This is above ncaa min.

- gpa we generally weight more than sat.

- we allow sat range based on a sliding scale when compared to gpa. Higher gpa. Lower sat is acceptable. And vice versa. Generally we try to do this above ncaa mins

This last point is the one that often is loose. We have let kids in, with 890 sats and mid 2s gpa; as the exception. And u know what. All of those that i know of. Graduated.

So the whole thing if u ask me is a joke.

A total joke

The big limiter for us is less about admissions and more about few degrees and kids scared of all the math

There's a reason the lower scoring exceptions have a high grad rate. They are screened for effort in the classroom by talking to their hs coaches and teachers. I have lobbied for more true SA exceptions for years, as long as they are justified by results like CPJ's grad rates. No exceptions---No MNC. A very popular current coach is one, and so is Daryl Smith. However, the smaller recruiting pool available to us is no joke. The South Georgia pipeline for DTs that ugag has thrived on, is not for the most part available to us---ugag's best player from Kirby's first year (signed by CMR) isn't either.

 

[THWG16]

Most players are in college to play football. If they learn something while they are there, so much the better. You do not have to understand calculus to be successful in life.

Amen

 

[takethepoints]

There's a reason the lower scoring exceptions have a high grad rate. They are screened for effort in the classroom by talking to their hs coaches and teachers. I have lobbied for more true SA exceptions for years, as long as they are justified by results like CPJ's grad rates. No exceptions---No MNC. A very popular current coach is one, and so is Daryl Smith. However, the smaller recruiting pool available to us is no joke. The South Georgia pipeline for DTs that ugag has thrived on, is not for the most part available to us---ugag's best player from Kirby's first year (signed by CMR) isn't either.

Yes. In fact, there is a fairly good predictor for college performance: high school GPA. This works much better then standardized tests and has for some time. Schools use standardized test scores to, essentially, wash out part of the applicant pool so that the admissions office can concentrate on decisions for the slots available. That is borderline justifiable because the SAT/ACT do have some predictive value; it just isn't as good as GPA is. Problem = the kinds of players everybody here is drooling over usually have low GPAs and low SAT/ACT scores. NB: this does not mean that they are dumb - far from it - only that they haven't put in the effort to make good grades in high school and don't see any reason why they should in college either. And they are right: most prime time linemen - that's what we are talking about here - have plenty of choices. Why go someplace where you have to work hard when you have coaches telling you that you can make it in the NFL from their school and you learn (unofficially, of course) that you won't have to break your neck to do it? It's a problem that Tech has always had and it has gotten worse recently. The NCAA progress regs have helped a bit, but not enough.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Every SA admitted on the football team with a ship, or almost every, is an exception when compared to the normal student at tech. Ok. So thats a fact

When we talk exceptions what we are talking about is the exception of admitting an SA below the SA standard, or, on the thin line.

Our standard is roughly 3 fold; there is more too it but generally
- has to have enough years of high school math. This is above ncaa min.

- gpa we generally weight more than sat.

- we allow sat range based on a sliding scale when compared to gpa. Higher gpa. Lower sat is acceptable. And vice versa. Generally we try to do this above ncaa mins

This last point is the one that often is loose. We have let kids in, with 890 sats and mid 2s gpa; as the exception. And u know what. All of those that i know of. Graduated.

So the whole thing if u ask me is a joke.

A total joke

The big limiter for us is less about admissions and more about few degrees and kids scared of all the math

But those last two things hurt recruiting.

 

[Jacket in Dairyland]

People who we recruit against still continue to spread scary stories about academics at Tech, but I think we are getting better at combating it. Having assistant coaches/ former SAs, like Choice , Burton and Coleman on the recruiting trail helps a lot, IMO. Plus current SAs on twitter, etc. can tell recruits the real story.
Of course there are some recruits that will only want to do minimal , if any ,real work in college. IMO, we don't want them anyway.

 

[Ibeeballin]

I am not aware of anything that has changed. It could be that it never was academics that kept us from getting high profile recruits. Its just something Tech fans have always believed and clung to, even when former players tell us it is overblown as a supposed huge obstacle.

Ha! I said this numerous times only to get shushed. Ive also said kids are more equipped now and know what they need to get in these Institutions.


I still standby my point that 35/40 of the Top 50 and 80 of the 100 in GA can get into Tech