A Thread to Rehash GT HC Comparisons

[Ibeeballin]

For people who keep claiming that recruiting was bad which is why we have small D-line:

Brandon Adams (Act of god, RIP)
Chris Martins (left the team)
Lee (left the team)

I may be forgetting a couple others.

3 Potential DT's that were recruited by the past staff with plenty of size and lots of potential.

Everyone keeps pointing to how bad our LB play has been, but nobody is really talking about DT. If we had decent DT's it would help alleviate our weaknesses at LB, but the staff is playing a walk-on there and some how that's CPJ's fault. I'm also not blaming this current staff for the state of the DT's, its actually just a bad situation, but how in the world is this also the TO's fault?

We didn't run the triple option on defense so why does that suck so bad right now?

I mean everyone here is all about recruiting rankings now, go look at the defense, we have a bunch of 4-star recruits.

Bc we have a player with 30 starts who making the same mistakes as he did as a freshman and some old habits die hard. We have guys who not only getting reps daily for what they will see on Saturdays but they also have WRs & RBs who will run the same concepts they see as well

 

[Ibeeballin]

How was that a waste when the goal was to get them to jump or see how they lined up?

it worked 2x in 11yrs

 

[stylee]

And for years pro-CPJ people told us every problem we had was someone other than the head coaches fault. Now the same people are blaming everything on the head coaching.

The people that are saying give Collins a chance understand he was hired under the premise of improving recruiting and are willing to give the time it takes for improved recruiting to have an actual impact. The people who can't seem to grasp why we are struggling are the same ones who burried their head in the sand when they were told about these issues two years ago when we made the change.

The question is what it means to say "give Collins a chance."
A chance to do what? And how long from now? How low should our expectations be at this moment and how high should our expectations be in 1, 3, or 5 years?

Just more directly: do you think Collins will ever beat Clemson or UGA? Do you think Collins will ever win 9+ games?
And if so - when?

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

The question is what it means to say "give Collins a chance."
A chance to do what? I guess turn the corner and get to .500 And how long from now? I really think being at .500 by next year should not be too much to ask How low should our expectations be at this moment and how high should our expectations be in 1, 3, or 5 years? In 4-5 years, we should be pushing to win the Coastal. My expectation for this year was 4 wins - not sure he will get there.

Just more directly: do you think Collins will ever beat Clemson or UGA? NO, I do not Do you think Collins will ever win 9+ games? Maybe he could get to 9, but I think that is his max, and not sure he will get there
And if so - when? I don't think he gets to 9, if he gets to 9, prior to year 5.

I have tried to answer your questions, based on my beliefs.

 

[gtg936g]

it worked 2x in 11yrs

Not true. There are many times we got people to jump.

 

[FlatsLander]

Well, backing up, we had Justin Thomas 2014-2016.
In the 2014 class, we took Matthew Jordan.
In the 2015 class, we took Jaylen Ratliffe as our sole QB that class. He nearly died from a terrible accident before arriving on campus and never played.
In the 2016 class, we took Jay Jones (ATH).

So we only took 3 QB over 3 years. 1 was really an athlete more than a QB, and Jaylen was hurt and out.

So going into the 2017 season, we had Matthew Jordan, Jay Jones, and a Freshman from the 2017 class Lucas Johnson. They moved TaQuon Marshall back to QB to help with depth.

If you look at the last couple years of CPJs tenure, you can see why we struggled the way we did - we didn't recruit well at the QB position, which is one of the most dominant positions in terms of determining how your offense will flow. It made us extremely 1 dimensional, because although Matthew Jordan, Lucas Johnson, and TaQuon Marshall could all run the offense, we lost 2 of them to injuries anyway, but they couldn't throw well enough to keep defenses honest.

We also had some bad luck at BBack during that stretch.

2013 - Donovan Wilson flips last minute
2014 - Travis Custis couldn't graduate high school
2015 - Got Marcus Marshall (who I think was an excellent BBack) but the Skov experiment rubbed him the wrong way
2016 - Dedrick Mills had a great year, then kicked off the team.

 

[smokey_wasp]

The question is what it means to say "give Collins a chance."
A chance to do what? And how long from now? How low should our expectations be at this moment and how high should our expectations be in 1, 3, or 5 years?

Just more directly: do you think Collins will ever beat Clemson or UGA? Do you think Collins will ever win 9+ games?
And if so - when?

Whether he beats uga or Clemson has a lot to do with them as much as us. CPJ wasn't beating the current versions of these teams again from what I saw the past few years. If they come back down slightly to earth, sure.

Yes, I believe he will win 9 plus in year 4-ish. Think we get to 6 or 7 next year and 8 or 9 the year after.

 

[takethepoints]

And for years pro-CPJ people told us every problem we had was someone other than the head coaches fault. Now the same people are blaming everything on the head coaching.

The people that are saying give Collins a chance understand he was hired under the premise of improving recruiting and are willing to give the time it takes for improved recruiting to have an actual impact. The people who can't seem to grasp why we are struggling are the same ones who burried their head in the sand when they were told about these issues two years ago when we made the change.

Tha problem with this analysis is that we were winning before. Paul had two losing seasons. Now, as you may have noticed, we aren't. When you are winning it is easy to say - and usually true, btw - that when you lose it is because of the breaks or because you ran into a better team. And all that leads to an important question: who is burying their heads in the sand here?

I've been willing to give Collins a chance; I haven't been calling for a quick exit. Oth, excuses for coaching for a team that has looked well coached a grand total of one half of a game this year are becoming very tiring. Personally, I don't believe the evident confusion on the sidelines and our ill disciplined and inefficient play are completely the result of talent differences. Part of it is the coaches, many of whom are inexperienced or not used to P5 play, learning on the job. I don't like dropping $2500 or so a year for that. We need to give Collins a chance. But we don't need to give him a blank check.

 

[FlatsLander]

Whether he beats uga or Clemson has a lot to do with them as much as us. CPJ wasn't beating the current versions of these teams again from what I saw the past few years. If they come back down slightly to earth, sure.

Yes, I believe he will win 9 plus in year 4.

I hope you're right. I just miss looking like we know what's going on during the game. No matter what, having reduced possessions and running the slow down long huddle helped keep opponents from running up the score.

 

[takethepoints]

We also had some bad luck at BBack during that stretch.

2013 - Donovan Wilson flips last minute
2014 - Travis Custis couldn't graduate high school
2015 - Got Marcus Marshall (who I think was an excellent BBack) but the Skov experiment rubbed him the wrong way
2016 - Dedrick Mills had a great year, then kicked off the team.

You left out Benson getting sidelined by injury for the season in 2018. Benson back means 2 more wins.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Tha problem with this analysis is that we were winning before. Paul had two losing seasons. Now, as you may have noticed, we aren't. When you are winning it is easy to say - and usually true, btw - that when you lose it is because of the breaks or because you ran into a better team. And all that leads to an important question: who is burying their heads in the sand here?

I've been willing to give Collins a chance; I haven't been calling for a quick exit. Oth, excuses for coaching for a team that has looked well coached a grand total of one half of a game this year are becoming very tiring. Personally, I don't believe the evident confusion on the sidelines and our ill disciplined and inefficient play are completely the result of talent differences. Part of it is the coaches, many of whom are inexperienced or not used to P5 play, learning on the job. I don't like dropping $2500 or so a year for that. We need to give Collins a chance. But we don't need to give him a blank check.

and both of those losing seasons were in his final 4 years and 2018 was headed that way too, but he rallied and did a nice coaching job down the stretch that year. The overall trend was going the wrong way and there wasn't really much hope on the horizon, in my view.

I think it's okay to be critical of the current product, but he was indeed given a blank check for the first two years. Next year, it's all fair game.

 

[THWG]

For people who keep claiming that recruiting was bad which is why we have small D-line:

Brandon Adams (Act of god, RIP)
Chris Martins (left the team)
Lee (left the team)

I may be forgetting a couple others.

3 Potential DT's that were recruited by the past staff with plenty of size and lots of potential.

Everyone keeps pointing to how bad our LB play has been, but nobody is really talking about DT. If we had decent DT's it would help alleviate our weaknesses at LB, but the staff is playing a walk-on there and some how that's CPJ's fault. I'm also not blaming this current staff for the state of the DT's, its actually just a bad situation, but how in the world is this also the TO's fault?

We didn't run the triple option on defense so why does that suck so bad right now?

I mean everyone here is all about recruiting rankings now, go look at the defense, we have a bunch of 4-star recruits.

Don't forget about Chimedza being out for the year. I thought he was going to have his breakout season.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

We also had some bad luck at BBack during that stretch.

2013 - Donovan Wilson flips last minute
2014 - Travis Custis couldn't graduate high school
2015 - Got Marcus Marshall (who I think was an excellent BBack) but the Skov experiment rubbed him the wrong way
2016 - Dedrick Mills had a great year, then kicked off the team.

Kirvonte Benson was injured and then left.

 

[gtg936g]

And for years pro-CPJ people told us every problem we had was someone other than the head coaches fault. Now the same people are blaming everything on the head coaching.

The people that are saying give Collins a chance understand he was hired under the premise of improving recruiting and are willing to give the time it takes for improved recruiting to have an actual impact. The people who can't seem to grasp why we are struggling are the same ones who burried their head in the sand when they were told about these issues two years ago when we made the change.

So when does recruiting improve to the point we are a .500 team again? You know, back to where he started.

 

[Pointer]

Bc we have a player with 30 starts who making the same mistakes as he did as a freshman and some old habits die hard. We have guys who not only getting reps daily for what they will see on Saturdays but they also have WRs & RBs who will run the same concepts they see as well

That's why we have a scout team.

Idk if you've been to practices, I assume you have. Was BJS not any better than Curry? Does moving Tariq to LB not make sense? I'm asking b/c you know much more than myself and most on here.

 

[lv20gt]

The question is what it means to say "give Collins a chance."
A chance to do what? And how long from now? How low should our expectations be at this moment and how high should our expectations be in 1, 3, or 5 years?

A chance to actually see the fruits of improved recruiting. As a GT fan you should probably be able to do the math.

Tha problem with this analysis is that we were winning before. Paul had two losing seasons. Now, as you may have noticed, we aren't. When you are winning it is easy to say - and usually true, btw - that when you lose it is because of the breaks or because you ran into a better team. And all that leads to an important question: who is burying their heads in the sand here?

The hell kind of nonsense is this is this? First off, Johnson has 3 losing seasons, year 3, year 8, and year 10. BTW year 12 was a year where we were losing the 11th highest % of production coming off of 7 wins so there is a good chance that would have been a 4th.

Second. His decade of bad defenses weren't the breaks or bad luck. Nor was the decade of bad passing or bad recruiting. But hey. Those things were never his fault. It was the AD. Or the hill. or the Acc. Or the NCAA. or the weather. or God. It was always something but never Johnson.

Third, when we hired Johnson in late 2007 we were told that if we ever went away from the option it'd be a complete..... show. A decade later when he left it was against told to us. We were told that our OL was completely unfit to run the offense we were going for. People stuck their head in the sands and pretended that wasn't the case. Now, despite our OL looking like they had no clue what to do in year one, and desperately trying to get transfers and freshmen to fill the cracks in year 2, people will say it's bad coaching and refuse to admit what laid out in front of their eyes. Numerous places told us the QBs we had wouldn't fit the new offense. People will still deny this despite what we saw last year and despite that a true freshman who clearly isn't ready for the responsibility he is being asked to carry is a clear upgrade over what we had. It was pointed out numerous times our WRs were at best unproven and not used to running the types of routes they would need in the new offense. Lo and behold our best WR in year one is a true freshman who committed after the new staff came in. But people still won't acknowledge that. We had no TEs at all. Defensively we were bad for a decade with poor recruiting, and outside issues at DL and were bad despite an offense that ate time to try to mask the issues somewhat. None of our struggles came out of the blue. We were all told this would happen, and some just didn't want to accept it. Those that didn't want to accept it, and still don't accept that are the ones with their heads in the sand.

Hell, I bet we'd look a hell of a lot better if we had inherited 4 future NFL DLmen, a WR who would go on to be the best WR in the NFL, a RB who was probably the best we had seen in two decades, a QB who was a great fit for the offense. Unfortunately he didn't. But hey. He did inherit a real gem of a punter. That has to count for something right?

So when does recruiting improve to the point we are a .500 team again? You know, back to where he started.

How about you do some critical thinking yourself for once and figure how long it takes to recruit and develop a class? The math really aint that hard.

 

[TheJuiceIsLoose]

You left out Benson getting sidelined by injury for the season in 2018. Benson back means 2 more wins.

Kirvonte Benson being healthy that season was NOT worth 2 more wins

Jesus Christ!

 

[gtg936g]

How about you do some critical thinking yourself for once and figure how long it takes to recruit and develop a class? The math really aint that hard.

Just wondering what the Collins faithful think. The group seems to be a little hesitant to put some bounds on when to declare the Collins experience a success/failure.

 

[GT_05]

Just wondering what the Collins faithful think. The group seems to be a little hesitant to put some bounds on when to declare the Collins experience a success/failure.

In my opinion, Geoff gets full ownership of all successes and failures in 2021.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Just wondering what the Collins faithful think. The group seems to be a little hesitant to put some bounds on when to declare the Collins experience a success/failure.

No one is really being mysterious about this. There are lots of data points that point to him getting a minimum of 5 years to show what he can do. Pastner's make or break year is year 5, as well.

If we are on schedule, we should be around .500 next year, IMO