3TO or just an option play off the DE?

nodawgs

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I don't understand this post. Are you agreeing with me? At first it sounds like you are disagreeing with me, saying it's an [inside] veer or our standard triple-option. However, your because clause seems to agree with me (DT as HOK and DE as PK) that it's the midline triple-option, sometimes called the mid-veer.

Did you mean to write "wouldn't" instead of "would" because you believed that by "mid-veer" I meant inside veer?
What 33 is saying makes since, because there is a pitch, which rarely happens with midline. It was midline and predetermined because CPJ wanted to suck the Sam in and go wide. It's basically a rocket toss with misdirection if you catch my drift. You can't misdirection a rocket toss, and veer wouldn't get the SAM to suck in. It's a play you can't run much, but a good change up based on pursuit.
 

Pj4prez01

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What 33 is saying makes since, because there is a pitch, which rarely happens with midline. It was midline and predetermined because CPJ wanted to suck the Sam in and go wide. It's basically a rocket toss with misdirection if you catch my drift. You can't misdirection a rocket toss, and veer wouldn't get the SAM to suck in. It's a play you can't run much, but a good change up based on pursuit.

I disagree. It is the midline, but he is reading the dive and pitch. A lot was predetermined when vad was the quarterback, but typically the midline is a triple option, you have a dive read and a pitch read. Burley has the ability to read the option, so I would assume that is what you see. The cross blocking the WR blocks down and the lead A back kicks out the corner is more driven by coverage.

And yes, the midline does have a pitch, you don't have to follow the bback.
 

Longestday

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Midline has a pitch when the AB does not go into the hole. According to the site poster on here there are many midline variants including a pitch AB or the same AB blocking up the hole. I think the Veer term we use describes the path of the QB more to the outside of the DT versus "midline" which is right at or inside the DT... right?
 

33jacket

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I don't understand this post. Are you agreeing with me? At first it sounds like you are disagreeing with me, saying it's an [inside] veer or our standard triple-option. However, your because clause seems to agree with me (DT as HOK and DE as PK) that it's the midline triple-option, sometimes called the mid-veer.

Did you mean to write "wouldn't" instead of "would" because you believed that by "mid-veer" I meant inside veer?

I am agreeing with you its a veer. Here is the thing. There are 1000 versions of a veer and midline; they cross over each other. The first poster called it a midline triple...this is true, but then its also a inside veer.....

The GENERAL term midline is a power double option play that attacks the A-Gap first, and if the Tackle takes the BB then the QB hits the B gap. That is it. That is the CLASSIC term for midline...9 out of 10 midline designs are double option with no pitch key....sometimes its just the BB up into the whole, sometimes the AB will motion and blast...but its a 2 option read 90% of the time

Depending on the front the inside Veer in GENERAL is a tackle read, if the tackle takes the BB then its a DE read, which the QB pitches or keeps.....It in GENERAL is a triple option principle everytime, using an inside vs outside veer depending on the front etc. ie you want to run outside veer vs some fronts vs inside veer...outside being off tackle..., inside being A gap or Bgap....alot of people when they say the General term Veer refer to a BGap triple veer option attack....however inside Veer will hit the A like a midline option but with triple option principles....hence why its called the mid-veer or midline triple option. The Outside veer always reads the 5,6,7 tech and goes over tackle.....

So you can be correct to call this play a midline triple, but really, its just a inside veer...I like to call it a veer because in general a midline is a double option play
 

Pj4prez01

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Midline has a pitch when the AB does not go into the hole. According to the site poster on here there are many midline variants including a pitch AB or the same AB blocking up the hole. I think the Veer term we use describes the path of the QB more to the outside of the DT versus "midline" which is right at or inside the DT... right?

Almost. The main difference between the veer and midline is on the midline, the dive read is typically the DT and the pitch read is the DE. On the veer, the dive read is typically DE and the pitch read is the next guy, usually OLB. As a result of that, the b back usually runs inside the DT on the midline, and outside on the veer.
 

33jacket

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Almost. The main difference between the veer and midline is on the midline, the dive read is typically the DT and the pitch read is the DE. On the veer, the dive read is typically DE and the pitch read is the next guy, usually OLB. As a result of that, the b back usually runs inside the DT on the midline, and outside on the veer.

no there is no PK on a traditional midline. A veer there is. A veer can be inside our outside. A inside veer reads the DT, then PK the DE. An outside Veer reads the DE and PK the outside LB. A midline reads the DT and thats it...its double option.

This is the traditional definition of both.

Now, some people call a version of the midline option the midline triple option which may be what you refer to (most midline plays are not triples). This is also called a mid-veer....and its nothing more than a inside veer. They are all essentially the same. However in veer principle you can attack the A or B gap...in midline its always a A Gap attack....so when someone says mildine triple option it is a inside veer over the A Gap....
 

nodawgs

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Midline has a pitch when the AB does not go into the hole. According to the site poster on here there are many midline variants including a pitch AB or the same AB blocking up the hole. I think the Veer term we use describes the path of the QB more to the outside of the DT versus "midline" which is right at or inside the DT... right?
pretty much. There are 2 types of veer. Inside and outside. Outside veer is not used much if at all anymore. So the term veer refers to inside veer. Midline is almost straight up the middle on b back path. Blocking rules for veer and midline are quite different, but you are correct on backfield action.
 
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AE 87

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@33jacket thanks. I understand it slightly differently. I think the Bback's dive path differs for the three plays: inside is guard's inside hip, outside is tackle's outside hip, midline is center's brown spot.
 

forensicbuzz

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I believe the rule is that if it's outside the tackle box or beyond 5 yards from the LOS, the block has to be head-on. To me, that block was head-on even though it wasn't perpendicular to the LOS. Days is chest-to-chest with the defender before he cut him sideways.
 

AE 87

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Side question. Is the block by Days (#10) illegal now?
I believe the rule is that if it's outside the tackle box or beyond 5 yards from the LOS, the block has to be head-on. To me, that block was head-on even though it wasn't perpendicular to the LOS. Days is chest-to-chest with the defender before he cut him sideways.

Yeah, I think the rule that yall are talking about prohibits cut blocking. Days was arc blocking which I don't think is covered. It would be close if the defender backs away from the arc and just gets cut. Just my opinion. I'm not sure.
 

danny daniel

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I believe the rule is that if it's outside the tackle box or beyond 5 yards from the LOS, the block has to be head-on. To me, that block was head-on even though it wasn't perpendicular to the LOS. Days is chest-to-chest with the defender before he cut him sideways.

"Head on" is 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock I believe.
 

33jacket

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@33jacket thanks. I understand it slightly differently. I think the Bback's dive path differs for the three plays: inside is guard's inside hip, outside is tackle's outside hip, midline is center's brown spot.
Nah its not that accurate. Its a gap attack. It happens so fast and your reads are so quick its not that scientific.....what u do is get a play call. Based on the DL alignment the inside line makes its call with the qb. What was a bgap veer may change to a agap veer. Or what was a outside veer now the de is playing a 7tech with the olb walking down may change to a bgap veer. Its not determined by the o its a gap based play off the d. That was how we ran it.
 

Techster

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This thread underscores why it's tough for fans to criticize our QB's read unless they know what the call is. Every QB under CPJ has been second guessed, especially Vad last year for obvious reasons, but unless a fan knows the call, you really don't know what the heck is going on. Sure, you can make educated guesses, but I'm sure if you can make educated guess so too can the DC's we play. I'm sure CPJ knows that and probably mixes the "read" and keys within plays to make it look like other plays, or to confuse the defender.
 

vamosjackets

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I think a lot of you guys know what you're talking about, but there's a little bit of talking past each other just due to semantics. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. It doesn't matter if you call it midline or inside veer or whatever ... that pretty much depends on the triple option coach in charge and what verbiage he wants to use. From my experience, the midline was the BB going up the butt of the center; the option was the BB going off the outside hip of the guard; and the veer was the BB going off the outside hip of the tackle. If you want to use inside/outside veer to distinguish that stuff, it's still the same concepts. But, this has been a great thread and I'm loving the thought of various ways to run the midline. It really can put the defense in a bind. We should really have no problem moving the ball with this system, if we can make the reads, know who to block, and aren't just totally dominated man-on-man.
 

Longestday

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We can see when they are really running a 3TO or calling reads in 2013.

We can also tell when the QB fails to read right on a 3TO and if they have issues pitching the ball when they should.

Midline really was not used a lot with Vad. A lot of the base offense was not installed or simplified last year to fit in the diamond or fit Vad skill level.
 

dressedcheeseside

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I am agreeing with you its a veer. Here is the thing. There are 1000 versions of a veer and midline; they cross over each other. The first poster called it a midline triple...this is true, but then its also a inside veer.....
What you just said underscores the need to focus more time and energy on our base offense. Messing around with all the non base plays last year cost us dearly. Probably more than personnel issues.
 
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