2018 Offensive unit projections

alentrekin

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I love Marshawn as much as the next guy, but he is not on our roster.

Last year, we ran a lot of called dives and variations off of it -- trap, follow, etc. I like that we'll be strong up the middle running. I expect marginal improvements in the TO and our line will be strong barring injury. My big if is upgrading the passing game. If we can hit a handful more wide open guys, we would have been and will be dangerous.
 

Skeptic

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I have watched this play a dozen times and I still don't see how UGA let him get in. There were at least four dawgs in position to one degree or another but Qua just made the play. Remarkable athletic ability.
It's true isn't it? You can't coach speed.
 

tech_wreck47

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Disagree with you. Those are the years we avoid injuries, transfers, and have a QB that can throw the ball a little bit.
Regardless of that they were recruiting classes that averages probably around 50. Can you show me any other team that does what GT does that recruits even in the top 40? There’s a reason for that, it’s because of player development and the offensive system.
 

Sideways

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On several posts above:

We have to keep our rushing stats in perspective. Tech was #5 in team rushing in 2017 at 307.4 a game. In general, that'll do.

There are, imho, two major things our opponents have gotten better at, however. First, everybody has learned the put-your-MLB-8-yards-back trick and then holding our OLs to disrupt second level blocks. None of that is new. If we had had the same OL on the field for the season instead of putting one together with spit and tape after our 3rd game, I think we would have done fine against these particular tactics. Still, the new holding rules work both ways and DLs can get away with just as much as OLs these days. Second, our opponents have all learned how to take on cut blocks. This makes it more difficult for the ABs we have now in particular; most of them aren't big enough to drive block OLBs reliably. We've been trying to get back to where we were in 2014 where we had Perkins and Hill alternating in regularly, but not so far. This is why I think that Ponchez is going back to AB and that Whatley or Malloy might get playing time early. We need to put the fear of God into OLBs and DBs on the edge again.

I'm not too worried about TaQuon; as I've said here before, with a starting year and a healthy (please, oh, Football Gods) OL I think we'll see the TO being called more and working. Then it's just a matter of (please, oh, Football Gods, part duex) getting no more then one game in a deluge next year.

The MLB 8 yards back trick was first used by Miami to shut down Oklahoma's seemingly impossible to stop wishbone. It works IF you have a Sean Spence or Denziel Perryman type who can go sideline to sideline many teams don't. I believe that many teams have taken to doing what Duke and others have done for the past two years and bring their safeties up and blitz the gaps to disrupt the timing of our option plays. This works also because we seemingly cannot beat one on one coverage nor complete passes to A backs. Hit defenses with a few big plays passing and they will back those safeties to a more realistic depth. Marshall may or may not be a triple option quarterback but if all he has in his arsenal is the two trick pony of the dive and quarterback keeper we are going to get beat. He must become adept at making the correct reads and getting the ball to the perimeter. Pitches to A backs hitting the corner is what gives defensive coordinators nightmares. A good triple option quarterback is akin to a point guard in basketball, a distributor of the ball where it will do the most damage. Taking off like you are back in high school and the best athlete on the field will not get it done.
 

Skeptic

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... A good triple option quarterback is akin to a point guard in basketball, a distributor of the ball where it will do the most damage. Taking off like you are back in high school and the best athlete on the field will not get it done.
This on both counts. When the spacing is right between the QB and pitch back and the relationship is right -- four and four are the numbers I have read, deep and to the outside (visible) to the QB, then it is a basketball floor or soccer field with passing lanes created by the spacing. And yep, otherwise the QB just keeps it and it is HS again. That, as Krusty might say, is not a sustainable business model.
 

Jacket in Dairyland

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Regardless of that they were recruiting classes that averages probably around 50. Can you show me any other team that does what GT does that recruits even in the top 40? There’s a reason for that, it’s because of player development and the offensive system.
Regardless of that they were recruiting classes that averages probably around 50. Can you show me any other team that does what GT does that recruits even in the top 40? There’s a reason for that, it’s because of player development and the offensive system.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...he-most-with-the-least-talent-and-vice-versa/
According to this article we are 34th. Not too bad, considering UGA is 107th, but hardly better than any other team. Granted, we do better than many with what we are able to recruit, but I didn't have to look very far to find than we are FAR from the best. We perform about 10 places better than we recruit. My point was that during years where we have a rash of injuries - seemingly about every other year- we do not have quality backups that help us from losing close games. Our OL was decimated last year, and it kept us from winning the TOP , putting our D on the field way too much, in addition to forcing us into more throwing situations which we were not very good at.
 

tmhunter52

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One dimensional schemes, i.e, running with no passing game, will not survive for long. Defenses will catch up. It’s probably too optimistic to expect TM to develop into a real, college-caliber passer in the time, and with the reps, he has had, and will have had, in our system.
 

Jerry the Jacket

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Why have we had such a problem finding a true triple option QB? I think that is the biggest question of the Paul Johnson era of Georgia Tech football. You would think out of all of the high school football players in America that run a similar offense in High School that we would at least be able to come up with one that was a lights out natural at running the triple option. I would argue that Navy has been more successful than we have at finding good triple option QB's. All of ours have had shortcomings. Probably Nesbitt was the best. Thomas had his moments (Orange Bowl) and the rest have been serviceable at best. It is getting late for Paul to find his guy and it is beginning to look like we just are not going to find/produce a genuine triple option trigger man in the CPJ era.

Go Jackets!
 

Jacket in Dairyland

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Why have we had such a problem finding a true triple option QB? I think that is the biggest question of the Paul Johnson era of Georgia Tech football. You would think out of all of the high school football players in America that run a similar offense in High School that we would at least be able to come up with one that was a lights out natural at running the triple option. I would argue that Navy has been more successful than we have at finding good triple option QB's. All of ours have had shortcomings. Probably Nesbitt was the best. Thomas had his moments (Orange Bowl) and the rest have been serviceable at best. It is getting late for Paul to find his guy and it is beginning to look like we just are not going to find/produce a genuine triple option trigger man in the CPJ era.

Go Jackets!
Probably because the last ( only) QB from Navy that ever did anything in the NFL was Roger Staubach, not a TO QB. At GT , most very skilled TO QBs know that they are not going to the next level playing that position. You have got to LOVE the CONCEPT of playing the position, not thinking about getting to the NFL doing it. You are gonna get hit, a lot, and thrive on that. JN was a good example . JT was also a very good TO QB, but he went to the NFL trying to play WR. Maybe LJ , or TO , or MB will be the guy to show other potential recruits that the TO is an offense that allows them to display skills that translate to the NFL. Then , we will get more of them.
 

TromboneJacket

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I don’t know that we have that much trouble finding an option QB. Even Vad Lee was fine until he decided on year three at Tech that he didn’t like the offense. TaQuon is understandably having trouble with the reads because he came in as an A-back and played there for a year, then spent a year as the third string QB before becoming the starter last year. Contrast that with our normal handling of QBs: take a redshirt year, be a backup for a year or two, then become the starter. I’m also sure that practicing the mesh all offseason with Dedrick didn’t particularly help his chemistry with Kirvonte. I’m not super optimistic that TaQuon will be great this year, but I wouldn’t take last year’s performance as an indication of CPJ’s inability to sign an option QB.
 

jgtengineer

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I don’t know that we have that much trouble finding an option QB. Even Vad Lee was fine until he decided on year three at Tech that he didn’t like the offense. TaQuon is understandably having trouble with the reads because he came in as an A-back and played there for a year, then spent a year as the third string QB before becoming the starter last year. Contrast that with our normal handling of QBs: take a redshirt year, be a backup for a year or two, then become the starter. I’m also sure that practicing the mesh all offseason with Dedrick didn’t particularly help his chemistry with Kirvonte. I’m not super optimistic that TaQuon will be great this year, but I wouldn’t take last year’s performance as an indication of CPJ’s inability to sign an option QB.


Johnson did sign an option QB. You remember Ratliff. He was the perfect one before his accident. Also Jordan had he been healthy would have probably split time a bit more with TQ.
 

buzzed

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I was just thinking about all the attrition we’ve had on the OL over the past several years. Unless I’m missing someone, we’ve lost no one from the 2015, 2016, or 2017 classes yet. From the 2014 class, Brown, Whitley, and Preddy would have all been RS in 2018. I count 8 scholarship OL, not including Freshmen or redshirt freshmen currently on the roster. 6 of those are heavy contributors. Hopefully our redshirts from last year can provide some depth this year, and beginning in 2019 we can put the attrition excuse behind us.
 

Jacket in Dairyland

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I was just thinking about all the attrition we’ve had on the OL over the past several years. Unless I’m missing someone, we’ve lost no one from the 2015, 2016, or 2017 classes yet. From the 2014 class, Brown, Whitley, and Preddy would have all been RS in 2018. I count 8 scholarship OL, not including Freshmen or redshirt freshmen currently on the roster. 6 of those are heavy contributors. Hopefully our redshirts from last year can provide some depth this year, and beginning in 2019 we can put the attrition excuse behind us.
Exactly my point. For whatever reason, we are not developing QUALITY depth, especially at I would contend , is the 2nd most vital position on our offense - QB being the first. If you look back since CPJ has been here, we have seldom , if ever, had 2 deep with quality players at the OL positions , AND every one of them be a different name. Way too many instances of " either or " . Is it recruiting , or coaching , or bad luck , or all three ? IMO opinion, it is the main factor in explaining why we don't consistently contend for at least the ACC title. And by consistently I mean every year be in the conversation at game 9 or 10, at least.
 

Skeptic

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Why have we had such a problem finding a true triple option QB? I think that is the biggest question of the Paul Johnson era of Georgia Tech football. You would think out of all of the high school football players in America that run a similar offense in High School that we would at least be able to come up with one that was a lights out natural at running the triple option. I would argue that Navy has been more successful than we have at finding good triple option QB's. All of ours have had shortcomings. Probably Nesbitt was the best. Thomas had his moments (Orange Bowl) and the rest have been serviceable at best. It is getting late for Paul to find his guy and it is beginning to look like we just are not going to find/produce a genuine triple option trigger man in the CPJ era.

Go Jackets!
First things first, and all my opinion only. Obviously. But: Johnson's offense is the toughest option for anybody to run. That is because of the spacing -- the fullback is in the QB's hip pocket, better to burst into the line and force an instant decision from the defense -- no read and react here and for any comparison look at anybody running zone read or read option offenses; they could do it with a sundial. That is capped by quick motion in which the Aback is in motion -- to the side, legal -- minutely before the snap, the various blocking schemes and combinations, and the spacing between all of them required. There is no comparable option offense in the country that I am aware of, although a lot of coaches run "option" from the shotgun. As for high schools running this offense, a lot do. But if you have been to their games, and I have (a high school in my area ran it to get into state playoffs) you will not see, or rarely see, the triple option. A bit, yes. But mostly it is two-man option and from that, mostly, the QB keeping and cutting upfield. (A good HS play was what I think we call the load option, to the fullback. I saw several scores off that.) I did not see any HS QBs who could run the option well and throw the ball well. Sound familiar? As to Navy, no. the only QB Navy has had that i recall who was somewhat successful throwing the ball was Ricky Dobbs. And he was a good QB no doubt. But I assume we are talking about here a QB who can run, throw and run the 0ption. Give Dobbs a 2.5 out of 3 maybe. The rest of Navy's QBs have been on the keep it and flee model. Yes, all our QBs have had weaknesses, but Nesbitt I admired as a battler, was not a triple option QB, and could not throw the ball into the ocean from a whaleboat. He could throw it through the whaleboat, but ... Tevin Washington was not all that fast, not very strong nor quick -- and I am comparing all to football skills -- and was the poorest passer Johnson has had. (The first in-person pass I saw him throw was at Duke and I could not believe he was even on the team. Ducks flew better in their death spiral.) But: that kid could run the whole range of Johnson's options, and there are at least five or six. And because he could do that he scored a bunch because he made the right choice at the right time. Best overall? Thomas, easily. Pretty good with the options and the most daring of all of them, even Washington, too much so at times when his pitches sailed between defenders, very good on the edges and good enough between the tackles with the midline and despite a very funky motion, could sling it some. And the very best at winning late.
 

Sideways

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https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...he-most-with-the-least-talent-and-vice-versa/
According to this article we are 34th. Not too bad, considering UGA is 107th, but hardly better than any other team. Granted, we do better than many with what we are able to recruit, but I didn't have to look very far to find than we are FAR from the best. We perform about 10 places better than we recruit. My point was that during years where we have a rash of injuries - seemingly about every other year- we do not have quality backups that help us from losing close games. Our OL was decimated last year, and it kept us from winning the TOP , putting our D on the field way too much, in addition to forcing us into more throwing situations which we were not very good at.

I don't know what to make of this. I guess it is generally pretty much spot on but I have a hard time believing UNC gets more out of its talent than Tech does. To me, UNC along with UGA, Texas, and Notre Dame are among the worst offenders of squandering talent yet in this chart they are slightly ahead of us. Not sure about putting Ohio State ahead of us either good grief both of those teams are pretty much always in or near the top 20 in recruiting rankings and we have been in the top 20 just once in well over a decade.
 

Sideways

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First things first, and all my opinion only. Obviously. But: Johnson's offense is the toughest option for anybody to run. That is because of the spacing -- the fullback is in the QB's hip pocket, better to burst into the line and force an instant decision from the defense -- no read and react here and for any comparison look at anybody running zone read or read option offenses; they could do it with a sundial. That is capped by quick motion in which the Aback is in motion -- to the side, legal -- minutely before the snap, the various blocking schemes and combinations, and the spacing between all of them required. There is no comparable option offense in the country that I am aware of, although a lot of coaches run "option" from the shotgun. As for high schools running this offense, a lot do. But if you have been to their games, and I have (a high school in my area ran it to get into state playoffs) you will not see, or rarely see, the triple option. A bit, yes. But mostly it is two-man option and from that, mostly, the QB keeping and cutting upfield. (A good HS play was what I think we call the load option, to the fullback. I saw several scores off that.) I did not see any HS QBs who could run the option well and throw the ball well. Sound familiar? As to Navy, no. the only QB Navy has had that i recall who was somewhat successful throwing the ball was Ricky Dobbs. And he was a good QB no doubt. But I assume we are talking about here a QB who can run, throw and run the 0ption. Give Dobbs a 2.5 out of 3 maybe. The rest of Navy's QBs have been on the keep it and flee model. Yes, all our QBs have had weaknesses, but Nesbitt I admired as a battler, was not a triple option QB, and could not throw the ball into the ocean from a whaleboat. He could throw it through the whaleboat, but ... Tevin Washington was not all that fast, not very strong nor quick -- and I am comparing all to football skills -- and was the poorest passer Johnson has had. (The first in-person pass I saw him throw was at Duke and I could not believe he was even on the team. Ducks flew better in their death spiral.) But: that kid could run the whole range of Johnson's options, and there are at least five or six. And because he could do that he scored a bunch because he made the right choice at the right time. Best overall? Thomas, easily. Pretty good with the options and the most daring of all of them, even Washington, too much so at times when his pitches sailed between defenders, very good on the edges and good enough between the tackles with the midline and despite a very funky motion, could sling it some. And the very best at winning late.

Good points all. It should be noted that Nesbitt did have the luxury of having Bey Bey and Dwyer along with AA and a bevy of pretty good A backs. The thing about Nesbitt was his toughness and when a 220 pound quarterback is running that load option or the midline behind 230 pound Dwyer well, let me tell you it shapes up as a very long afternoon for linebackers and strong safeties.
 

tech_wreck47

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I don't know what to make of this. I guess it is generally pretty much spot on but I have a hard time believing UNC gets more out of its talent than Tech does. To me, UNC along with UGA, Texas, and Notre Dame are among the worst offenders of squandering talent yet in this chart they are slightly ahead of us. Not sure about putting Ohio State ahead of us either good grief both of those teams are pretty much always in or near the top 20 in recruiting rankings and we have been in the top 20 just once in well over a decade.
Agree, I don’t see this as being very accurate imo.
 

Jacket in Dairyland

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I don't know what to make of this. I guess it is generally pretty much spot on but I have a hard time believing UNC gets more out of its talent than Tech does. To me, UNC along with UGA, Texas, and Notre Dame are among the worst offenders of squandering talent yet in this chart they are slightly ahead of us. Not sure about putting Ohio State ahead of us either good grief both of those teams are pretty much always in or near the top 20 in recruiting rankings and we have been in the top 20 just once in well over a decade.
Don't make too much of it necessarily. I found it in 1 minute with a google search. Only to say that a ( maybe ) unbiased report sees things differently than we do. It was a snapshot of 2015 and 2016 I believe, so a limited sample to be sure. Just LOVED the DWAGS being at 107th !!
 

ilovetheoption

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First things first, and all my opinion only. Obviously. But: Johnson's offense is the toughest option for anybody to run. That is because of the spacing -- the fullback is in the QB's hip pocket, better to burst into the line and force an instant decision from the defense -- no read and react here and for any comparison look at anybody running zone read or read option offenses; they could do it with a sundial. That is capped by quick motion in which the Aback is in motion -- to the side, legal -- minutely before the snap, the various blocking schemes and combinations, and the spacing between all of them required. There is no comparable option offense in the country that I am aware of, although a lot of coaches run "option" from the shotgun. As for high schools running this offense, a lot do. But if you have been to their games, and I have (a high school in my area ran it to get into state playoffs) you will not see, or rarely see, the triple option. A bit, yes. But mostly it is two-man option and from that, mostly, the QB keeping and cutting upfield. (A good HS play was what I think we call the load option, to the fullback. I saw several scores off that.) I did not see any HS QBs who could run the option well and throw the ball well. Sound familiar? As to Navy, no. the only QB Navy has had that i recall who was somewhat successful throwing the ball was Ricky Dobbs. And he was a good QB no doubt. But I assume we are talking about here a QB who can run, throw and run the 0ption. Give Dobbs a 2.5 out of 3 maybe. The rest of Navy's QBs have been on the keep it and flee model. Yes, all our QBs have had weaknesses, but Nesbitt I admired as a battler, was not a triple option QB, and could not throw the ball into the ocean from a whaleboat. He could throw it through the whaleboat, but ... Tevin Washington was not all that fast, not very strong nor quick -- and I am comparing all to football skills -- and was the poorest passer Johnson has had. (The first in-person pass I saw him throw was at Duke and I could not believe he was even on the team. Ducks flew better in their death spiral.) But: that kid could run the whole range of Johnson's options, and there are at least five or six. And because he could do that he scored a bunch because he made the right choice at the right time. Best overall? Thomas, easily. Pretty good with the options and the most daring of all of them, even Washington, too much so at times when his pitches sailed between defenders, very good on the edges and good enough between the tackles with the midline and despite a very funky motion, could sling it some. And the very best at winning late.
A high school veer guy is rare.

Kaipo was one, which is why he was such a wizard operating the system. As I understand Tobias Oliver was a high school veer guy.
 
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