2018-2019 GT Hoops Post Mortem Thread
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joehamiltonfan14
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Fire away indeed. Never expected us to be a tourney team once Okogie declared, but didn’t expect us to look this bad. 3 years is enough time to recruit and coach a better product than we’ve put on the court. As I stated in another thread, I want to see significant improvement next year. 18+ wins, bubble team, top half of ACC. And have a good 2020 class signed. Anything less and I’m ready to move on and hope we hit a home run with our next hire
glandon1960
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A couple more losses than I expected, but hit my target for ACC wins.
With Okogie - this team wins 3-5 more games - probably into NIT. Not having him helps going forward as others got minutes they would not have.
ACC was tougher than usual this year and the schedule rotation did us no favors this year.
I like the core pieces coming back - Alvarado, Devoe, Banks. Need to sign big man depth in spring (would not mind taking two bigs - one to sit/develop, plus a grad transfer to backup Banks.
Has the light gone on for Wright? Playing like ACC starter last few games (lost much of the time before that) - if he keeps energy level like it was at end, improves some on the jumper, he can be a solid stretch 4 the next two years (and backup center for a few minutes.
I don't see Devoe/Alvarado playing as many minutes next year (30-35 in close games) - and I think this will help their consistency,
Still lacking the 'go to' scorer (I don't see Usher doing that) ... Sjouland and Moore both showed me they will be very good players next year or year after.
Haywood - I like many things he does (defense/passing/etc) but needs to expand offense to drive more and come off screens for jumpers (tends to only shoot when feet totally set or layups).
Phillips - Not sure what happened ... he was major disappointment this year ... looked solid early then could barely get minutes ... do not know why, but expected more.
Cole - Injuries hampered him, but his ceiling is not as high as Wright (again - has something finally clicked with Wright).
Optimistic next year will be better
Keys:
Sign big(s) that can play backup behind Banks in spring ... and long term can not afford to whiff on the following recruiting class.
Usher able to play at level he did at USC.
Continued development from Moore/Sjouland/Wright/Devoe/Alvarado/Banks.
20 ACC games next year (have not seen who we get where and twice) .... thinking 9 to 12 wins possible. Some teams will be reloading (Clemson, VT in particular) so expecting a first day bye.
Anything less than solid NIT team will be disappointing (barring unexpected serious injuries, etc.).
With Okogie - this team wins 3-5 more games - probably into NIT. Not having him helps going forward as others got minutes they would not have.
ACC was tougher than usual this year and the schedule rotation did us no favors this year.
I like the core pieces coming back - Alvarado, Devoe, Banks. Need to sign big man depth in spring (would not mind taking two bigs - one to sit/develop, plus a grad transfer to backup Banks.
Has the light gone on for Wright? Playing like ACC starter last few games (lost much of the time before that) - if he keeps energy level like it was at end, improves some on the jumper, he can be a solid stretch 4 the next two years (and backup center for a few minutes.
I don't see Devoe/Alvarado playing as many minutes next year (30-35 in close games) - and I think this will help their consistency,
Still lacking the 'go to' scorer (I don't see Usher doing that) ... Sjouland and Moore both showed me they will be very good players next year or year after.
Haywood - I like many things he does (defense/passing/etc) but needs to expand offense to drive more and come off screens for jumpers (tends to only shoot when feet totally set or layups).
Phillips - Not sure what happened ... he was major disappointment this year ... looked solid early then could barely get minutes ... do not know why, but expected more.
Cole - Injuries hampered him, but his ceiling is not as high as Wright (again - has something finally clicked with Wright).
Optimistic next year will be better
Keys:
Sign big(s) that can play backup behind Banks in spring ... and long term can not afford to whiff on the following recruiting class.
Usher able to play at level he did at USC.
Continued development from Moore/Sjouland/Wright/Devoe/Alvarado/Banks.
20 ACC games next year (have not seen who we get where and twice) .... thinking 9 to 12 wins possible. Some teams will be reloading (Clemson, VT in particular) so expecting a first day bye.
Anything less than solid NIT team will be disappointing (barring unexpected serious injuries, etc.).
LargeFO
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Peterson and his all his scandal is rolling out in a month or two. He announced a few months ago.
I know.
I want the new guy, firmly in place and comfortable when we hire our next basketball coach
gte447f
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On Moses, I have to admit I am shocked by his level of play, especially offensively, the last 4-5 games of the season. I was not convinced he would ever be able to walk and chew gum, much less start and contribute. I hope these games have not just been a flash in the pan. That being said, he is not a wing player and never will be. Right now he is a 4, and not of the stretch variety. He should not really be touching the ball beyond 8 feet from the basket (preferably 5 feet). Maybe he can work on his jump shot in the off season to extend his range beyond 8 feet, but nothing he has shown, even in these last few games in which he has played very well, has demonstrated the level of ball handling or shooting competence that is needed to play the stretch 4 on the perimeter.
SOWEGA Jacket
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Next year will be no better. We simply lack talent for our conference level of play. I’m as big a GT homer as many of you, but we are non-competitive at this point. And being a year older isn’t going to change the talent level.
TheOldWhiteNGold
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Glad it’s over, now my CGC-fueled optimism can go fully unchecked until we play Clemson week 1.
Wrecked
Ramblin' Wreck
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This year was about as expected, but I think coaching cost us several games. The merry go round substituting in mid season cost us as no player ever could develop into their role. We played much better once a rotation was set. This was never going to be an NCAA team, but we the absolute floor for this program has got to be the NIT and we weren't even close to that. Needs for next year: Alvarado needs a back up, and we have to find a diamond in the rough this spring recruiting. Some players also need to transfer out to free up some 2020 schollies, because I see us going with a solid eight man rotation next year. I also expect to be in the tourney, if not, Pastner needs to go. Nobody has ever had a bigger rebuild at Tech than Cremins and he danced into the elite eight in his fourth season.
Deleted member 2897
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That’s not how things work.
YlJacket
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It is hard to look at this season and especially how it ended (last month or so) and not have concerns about whether next year will be a step forward.
The upside is that our core will be another year older and hopefully another year stronger. That one fact is the jist of most optimism about next year. Plus a belief that one project - Moses - may have found the path to the promised land and started to show the promise that his athletic prowess always hinted at.
On the not so upside level, we were 3-7 over our last 10 games notwithstanding 2 decent wins over NCSU and BC. But those are really outliers and we ended up losing really handily to the bottom team in the ACC in the tourney who was decimated by injuries. The 2 guards who are supposed to be a combination as good as any backcourt in the ACC as they get older was not quite so golden over the last 10 as Jose averaged 12 PPG, Devoe 11 PPG and Banks 10 PPG. All with an extreme level of inconsistency despite the fact all 3 played as close to 40 min per game as their foul situation allowed. The rest of the supporting cast has basically shown nothing - Sjolund made a splash and disappeared. Haywood faded into nothing. Cole disappeared as did Moore. Then we get to Philips who was so far under the bench he was beyond disappeared.
I note the 2 most recent wins we had (NCSU and BC) were teams that had not seen our zone before. To my eye teams who had seen it once or twice before started playing a lot better against it. ND saw it for a 3rd time and torched us - especially in the first half - despite not having their primary shooters available.
Without getting into efficiency stats, we were last in the ACC in scoring at 65 PPG. 3 less per game than Wake. Let that sink in. That includes the least number of 3 point FG's per game - at 5 3's per game a full three pointer per game less than Wake. I don't have a stat for it but my eyes tell me we are near the bottom of "easy" field goals in the ACC. Everything is hard for us.
Net net, I didn't see us building to a crescendo with this season or seeing a consistency of who was going to be what role into next year. Everyone was way up and equally way down depending on the game. That is hard to project. CJP must agree with that as well as he is quoted as saying he needs a couple of "bucket getters" in the spring season. That doesn't give me the feeling that he is sold on this roster as well.
So next year we have a core of Jose, Devoe and Banks who are a year older and hopefully stronger (Devoe has to get into the weight room). Each has their issue as to whether they are top of ACC starters. Who knows if Moses is going to maintain his 25 point outing from tonight. And I hate to say it but who knows what Usher will bring next year - I thought Philips would be a player for us this year based on his history. And we still have a workshop full of projects that who the hell knows what we will get out of them.
I thought this year was going to be the last year of major questions or required contributions from first year players. We are back in the same place next year. Maybe the answers are better next year. I don't know based off of this year.
The upside is that our core will be another year older and hopefully another year stronger. That one fact is the jist of most optimism about next year. Plus a belief that one project - Moses - may have found the path to the promised land and started to show the promise that his athletic prowess always hinted at.
On the not so upside level, we were 3-7 over our last 10 games notwithstanding 2 decent wins over NCSU and BC. But those are really outliers and we ended up losing really handily to the bottom team in the ACC in the tourney who was decimated by injuries. The 2 guards who are supposed to be a combination as good as any backcourt in the ACC as they get older was not quite so golden over the last 10 as Jose averaged 12 PPG, Devoe 11 PPG and Banks 10 PPG. All with an extreme level of inconsistency despite the fact all 3 played as close to 40 min per game as their foul situation allowed. The rest of the supporting cast has basically shown nothing - Sjolund made a splash and disappeared. Haywood faded into nothing. Cole disappeared as did Moore. Then we get to Philips who was so far under the bench he was beyond disappeared.
I note the 2 most recent wins we had (NCSU and BC) were teams that had not seen our zone before. To my eye teams who had seen it once or twice before started playing a lot better against it. ND saw it for a 3rd time and torched us - especially in the first half - despite not having their primary shooters available.
Without getting into efficiency stats, we were last in the ACC in scoring at 65 PPG. 3 less per game than Wake. Let that sink in. That includes the least number of 3 point FG's per game - at 5 3's per game a full three pointer per game less than Wake. I don't have a stat for it but my eyes tell me we are near the bottom of "easy" field goals in the ACC. Everything is hard for us.
Net net, I didn't see us building to a crescendo with this season or seeing a consistency of who was going to be what role into next year. Everyone was way up and equally way down depending on the game. That is hard to project. CJP must agree with that as well as he is quoted as saying he needs a couple of "bucket getters" in the spring season. That doesn't give me the feeling that he is sold on this roster as well.
So next year we have a core of Jose, Devoe and Banks who are a year older and hopefully stronger (Devoe has to get into the weight room). Each has their issue as to whether they are top of ACC starters. Who knows if Moses is going to maintain his 25 point outing from tonight. And I hate to say it but who knows what Usher will bring next year - I thought Philips would be a player for us this year based on his history. And we still have a workshop full of projects that who the hell knows what we will get out of them.
I thought this year was going to be the last year of major questions or required contributions from first year players. We are back in the same place next year. Maybe the answers are better next year. I don't know based off of this year.
lv20gt
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The big questions for next year are consistency and depth. At various times this year all of Jose, Devoe, Banks, and Wright all showed several games of consistent ACC starter level play. The problem was each of them also had long stretches of definitively NOT ACC level play. How next year goes will probably largely depend on how consistent those 4, and one of Moore/Haywood/Usher can be. If we can improve consistency a good bit then this could be an NCAAT team. I think we will be more consistent, but by how much is the question.
The second concern probably limits are ceiling to about a 6 or 7th seed and that is lack of depth. We don't really have a PG or C to come off the bench. Ideally we would bring in a high quality PG and C in this recruiting class, but this is one time when the transfer market might make a lot of sense to go to, especially for PG. We'll also need Sjolund to develop some defense, Curt to find where he left his shot at, and Cole to figure out something to give us some depth. I think Moore could be the wildcard for next year because I think he could make a big jump potentially.
All in all though we lose AD and add Usher in terms of pieces that will make a difference, potentially. Otherwise we bring everybody back and so we should see an improvement. I don't know why some people act like what we see from freshmen and sophomores is what we are destined to see from them forever.
The second concern probably limits are ceiling to about a 6 or 7th seed and that is lack of depth. We don't really have a PG or C to come off the bench. Ideally we would bring in a high quality PG and C in this recruiting class, but this is one time when the transfer market might make a lot of sense to go to, especially for PG. We'll also need Sjolund to develop some defense, Curt to find where he left his shot at, and Cole to figure out something to give us some depth. I think Moore could be the wildcard for next year because I think he could make a big jump potentially.
All in all though we lose AD and add Usher in terms of pieces that will make a difference, potentially. Otherwise we bring everybody back and so we should see an improvement. I don't know why some people act like what we see from freshmen and sophomores is what we are destined to see from them forever.
Sebastian GT
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The basketball program is horrid. We have no real talent despite this area producing more high level basketball talent than it ever has. We're not very well coached and haven't been for years. We've made awful decisions on coaching hires. Spending bad money and handing out horrendous contracts/extensions. If one were actually trying to sabotage the program they couldn't have done a better job. It's as if Hairy Dawg has been the AD all this time. At it's worst during games like today (which seems like most every game) you feel like they'd be better off shutting the whole damn thing down for a few years. Who is coming here to save this program? Not one big time local recruit will touch this place. We are now being out recruited by ugag. That is expected in football. It should not be happening in basketball. The only good thing you could say about Gregory was at least he beat the mutts. We can't even do that anymore. Our only signee for next year is a backup junior college player. Meanwhile ugag with a coach who just showed up signs the #1 player in the country who is located right in our backyard. We're in the ACC and that's the best we can do?!!!! This stuff is unbelievable!!!
So is there any hope for next year? Probably is negligible but they're all a year older assuming no attrition. Maybe the USC transfer develops into a stud in the off season? Maybe Zion Williamson decides to forgo the NBA and transfer to Tech? Maybe one of us that gives half a **** about the basketball program wins a big Mega Millions jackpot and decides to take matters into their own hands and becomes "their own bagman" on the recruiting trail. Maybe Pastner miraculously figures out how to recruit between now and the fall signing period and he actually reels in some high level stud players for 2020 giving us all some measure of hope because after 10+ years of horrendous basketball most of us are all out of hope.
So is there any hope for next year? Probably is negligible but they're all a year older assuming no attrition. Maybe the USC transfer develops into a stud in the off season? Maybe Zion Williamson decides to forgo the NBA and transfer to Tech? Maybe one of us that gives half a **** about the basketball program wins a big Mega Millions jackpot and decides to take matters into their own hands and becomes "their own bagman" on the recruiting trail. Maybe Pastner miraculously figures out how to recruit between now and the fall signing period and he actually reels in some high level stud players for 2020 giving us all some measure of hope because after 10+ years of horrendous basketball most of us are all out of hope.
RamblinCharger
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I’ve been pretty negative on Pastner but I don’t know how we don’t win at least 18 games next year with this whole group coming back and adding usher. Just too much backcourt talent, and if Moses takes another step forward our starting 5 will be pretty damn good. Could use another big man to help Banks, and need another scoring threat. Preferably someone that can create their own shot. Even if we come back with this exact team I don’t know why they wouldn’t improve. They aren’t pros. They’re 19-20 year olds. They’ll get better.
Also, this team showed some spark that looked better at times than anything I’ve seen since the Hewitt days. At other times they looked awful. A lot of that I think is them being so young. I think we’ll surprise a lot of people next year. I’m disappointed with recruiting much more than player development or our record this year.
Also, this team showed some spark that looked better at times than anything I’ve seen since the Hewitt days. At other times they looked awful. A lot of that I think is them being so young. I think we’ll surprise a lot of people next year. I’m disappointed with recruiting much more than player development or our record this year.
MWBATL
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Actually, it kinda is......the optimism that guys will be better because they are a year older is much overhyped. Improvement? Yes. Leaps and bounds? No.
We just lost by 7 points in a lopsided game to a poor team,and posted yet another losing record. We have no recruits of note coming here. I applaud the efforts of the young men who do wear the white and gold. But I fear the coaches are not achieving what we want and need.
lv20gt
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And improvement for individuals across the board and with no major losses in the off season very well could lead to a leap and bounds improvement for the team. Not to mention the fact that yes, leaps and bounds improvements do happen to individuals every year.
LibertyTurns
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We will have the same chance of beating basically the same teams next year as we did this year. I’ll make the same predickshun as I made last year. 6-12 in conference (4-7 wins is our control zone), somewhere in the 14-18 win total overall. We’ve done nothing to think otherwise. A few bad injuries and it gets ugly fast.
Deleted member 2897
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Due to bad injuries last year with Haywood and Jose, the loss of Okogie, this years team was essentially like a first year team. Look at Duke without Zion. Look at last years 5-star laden Kentucky team who only went 10-8 in the SEC. the first year playing together is hard. Chemistry and experience is important.
RamblinCharger
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Disagree big time. College players make huge leaps all the time from FR to SO or SO to JR. Deandre hunter at Virginia is a good example. Made a big leap this year that we need from Devoe.