2015 Warmest Year on Record

Deleted member 2897

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NOAA reports global temperatures are 1° warmer than they were in the 1800s. Woopee do yee ha big woop yabba dabba doo.
 

Deleted member 2897

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TampaBuzz said:
Sure hope you don't own any coastal property....
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The southeast coast is sinking a few inches every decade. That's the real threat, not sea level rise. But yes, I've lived here my whole life. Other than places that have shifting sands, the coastline has been solid forever.
 
TampaBuzz

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bwelbo said:
The southeast coast is sinking a few inches every decade. That's the real threat, not sea level rise. But yes, I've lived here my whole life. Other than places that have shifting sands, the coastline has been solid forever.
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Just to be clear....are you saying that sea level rise is not a real thing? That the water levels only seem higher because the land is sinking?
 

MWBATL

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TampaBuzz said:
Just to be clear....are you saying that sea level rise is not a real thing? That the water levels only seem higher because the land is sinking?
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Sea levels have been rising and falling for eons....Pacific alone has fluctuated by over 300 FEET in sea level....
 

Deleted member 2897

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TampaBuzz said:
Just to be clear....are you saying that sea level rise is not a real thing? That the water levels only seem higher because the land is sinking?
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No. Sea level rise is real. But its inconsequential unless you're living on a frail island at sea level in the middle of the ocean. Venice has sank 5 feet in the last 500 years. That far outweighs sea level rise. You live right on the coast, you have a risk of property erosion, even if there were no sea level rise or land sinking.
 
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MWBATL said:
Sea levels have been rising and falling for eons....Pacific alone has fluctuated by over 300 FEET in sea level....
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Ok...since I am not worried about eons right now, let me ask a more simple question. Right now, at this particular moment in time, January 2020, are you saying that sea levels are not rising? That is just seems that way because the land is sinking?
 

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TampaBuzz said:
Ok...since I am not worried about eons right now, let me ask a more simple question. Right now, at this particular moment in time, January 2020, are you saying that sea levels are not rising? That is just seems that way because the land is sinking?
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My favorite quote from the media is how sea level is rising catastrophically in some areas but not so in others. Gee, ya think there's more to the story? LOL.

Yes, da watuh be risin.
 
TampaBuzz

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bwelbo said:
No. Sea level rise is real. But its inconsequential unless you're living on a frail island at sea level in the middle of the ocean. Venice has sank 5 feet in the last 500 years. That far outweighs sea level rise. You live right on the coast, you have a risk of property erosion, even if there were no sea level rise or land sinking.
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Hmmm...Interesting, because a bunch of people I know and trust, that study this stuff in detail, are telling me different. If the road you live on is at an elevation of 5 or less, I would sure be asking what your local government is going to do if it starts flooding at high tide, even if your house is high and dry. Cuz darn, what is the good of a coastal home if you can't get to it? And if you can't get to it, can you sell it? No need to panic right this minute, but I would sure be looking at the data and making decisions based on the actual science.
 

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TampaBuzz said:
Hmmm...Interesting, because a bunch of people I know and trust, that study this stuff in detail, are telling me different. If the road you live on is at an elevation of 5 or less, I would sure be asking what your local government is going to do if it starts flooding at high tide, even if your house is high and dry. Cuz darn, what is the good of a coastal home if you can't get to it? And if you can't get to it, can you sell it? No need to panic right this minute, but I would sure be looking at the data and making decisions based on the actual science.
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That's pretty much what I said - if you live at sea level, you're at risk. Especially in the southeast where the land is sinking. Was the same way when I was born in the 70s. I wouldn't be asking the government anything, I wouldn't live there.
 

MWBATL

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I'm not sure you guys are disagreeing.

From my point of view, having been born and raised in New Orleans, I wonder what all the fuss is about. New Orleans has flooded over and over again ...anyone who thinks Katrina was an aberration wasn't raised there....if you live in a very low-lying area, the water is going to be a problem...what you may be hearing in our "voices" is some skepticism about the proposed "solutions" to what we think of as a natural occurrence. And the idea that it is a "catastrophe". It's not.
 
TampaBuzz

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MWBATL said:
I'm not sure you guys are disagreeing.

From my point of view, having been born and raised in New Orleans, I wonder what all the fuss is about. New Orleans has flooded over and over again ...anyone who thinks Katrina was an aberration wasn't raised there....if you live in a very low-lying area, the water is going to be a problem...what you may be hearing in our "voices" is some skepticism about the proposed "solutions" to what we think of as a natural occurrence. And the idea that it is a "catastrophe". It's not.
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I guess that depends on your definition of catastrophe. I point you to this article regarding a study by the Corps of Engineers that suggests that sea level rise in the Florida Keys could approach 20 - 40 inches by 2070.
https://keysweekly.com/42/results-will-determine-which-flood-sea-level-projects-to-prioritize/

If even partially correct (maybe it is only 18 inches), the Florida Keys won't exist as we know it today in 40 or 50 years. The projects that the USACE will recommend will be things like raising US1 and raising key infrastructure like sanitary sewer facilities. I have seen cost estimates to raise US1 to protect against the worst case sea level rise predictions that are in the neighborhood of $60M per mile - and implementation would rely on a match from the federal government. Guess what, the chances of those projects getting funding by the Fed close to zero and Monroe County doesn't have anywhere near the tax base needed to generate the needed funds. And the study doesn't even consider all the side streets, businesses, and homes. 300 something homes in Key Largo are just the start....https://www.esquire.com/news-politi...rida-keys-climate-change-king-tide-key-largo/ Feel free to laugh at the source, but it doesn't change the facts. How many homes and businesses in the Keys will become permanently inaccessible in the next 20 - 50 years? Will FEMA buy out every home? Will a bank provide a mortgage if the homeowner can find a buyer? Will an insurance company provide coverage? How many people will lose a lifetime of investment (and how much of your tax money will be used to buy them out)? Where will the drinking water come from if salt water intrusion makes the current potable water supply wells unusable?

Then multiply the problem in Key Largo by Jacksonville, Cocoa Beach (NASA), West Palm Beach, Miami, Naples, Tampa (home of Central Command at elevation about 4-feet), in Florida alone. What happens to all those Florida port facilities and airports? What if the levies around New Orleans can't be built high enough? Are we going to just abandon all/parts of that great city? What if large parts of Galveston/Houston are permanently inundated and can't be protected? Who is gonna pay to move all those refineries and chemical plants? The risk of extreme long-term economic losses seems to be very high. It is beyond me that there are folks around that just want to pretend the problem doesn't exist.
 

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TampaBuzz said:
I guess that depends on your definition of catastrophe. I point you to this article regarding a study by the Corps of Engineers that suggests that sea level rise in the Florida Keys could approach 20 - 40 inches by 2070.
https://keysweekly.com/42/results-will-determine-which-flood-sea-level-projects-to-prioritize/

If even partially correct (maybe it is only 18 inches), the Florida Keys won't exist as we know it today in 40 or 50 years. The projects that the USACE will recommend will be things like raising US1 and raising key infrastructure like sanitary sewer facilities. I have seen cost estimates to raise US1 to protect against the worst case sea level rise predictions that are in the neighborhood of $60M per mile - and implementation would rely on a match from the federal government. Guess what, the chances of those projects getting funding by the Fed close to zero and Monroe County doesn't have anywhere near the tax base needed to generate the needed funds. And the study doesn't even consider all the side streets, businesses, and homes. 300 something homes in Key Largo are just the start....https://www.esquire.com/news-politi...rida-keys-climate-change-king-tide-key-largo/ Feel free to laugh at the source, but it doesn't change the facts. How many homes and businesses in the Keys will become permanently inaccessible in the next 20 - 50 years? Will FEMA buy out every home? Will a bank provide a mortgage if the homeowner can find a buyer? Will an insurance company provide coverage? How many people will lose a lifetime of investment (and how much of your tax money will be used to buy them out)? Where will the drinking water come from if salt water intrusion makes the current potable water supply wells unusable?

Then multiply the problem in Key Largo by Jacksonville, Cocoa Beach (NASA), West Palm Beach, Miami, Naples, Tampa (home of Central Command at elevation about 4-feet), in Florida alone. What happens to all those Florida port facilities and airports? What if the levies around New Orleans can't be built high enough? Are we going to just abandon all/parts of that great city? What if large parts of Galveston/Houston are permanently inundated and can't be protected? Who is gonna pay to move all those refineries and chemical plants? The risk of extreme long-term economic losses seems to be very high. It is beyond me that there are folks around that just want to pretend the problem doesn't exist.
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Florida has been a risk of disappearing for longer than I've been alive. Anybody who chooses to live there or anywhere else along the coast under 10 feet of elevation has always taken their financial security into their own hands. Independent of sea level rise. Land is sinking, sands are shifting, water is rising.
 

Sidewalking

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TampaBuzz said:
I guess that depends on your definition of catastrophe. I point you to this article regarding a study by the Corps of Engineers that suggests that sea level rise in the Florida Keys could approach 20 - 40 inches by 2070.
https://keysweekly.com/42/results-will-determine-which-flood-sea-level-projects-to-prioritize/

If even partially correct (maybe it is only 18 inches), the Florida Keys won't exist as we know it today in 40 or 50 years. The projects that the USACE will recommend will be things like raising US1 and raising key infrastructure like sanitary sewer facilities. I have seen cost estimates to raise US1 to protect against the worst case sea level rise predictions that are in the neighborhood of $60M per mile - and implementation would rely on a match from the federal government. Guess what, the chances of those projects getting funding by the Fed close to zero and Monroe County doesn't have anywhere near the tax base needed to generate the needed funds. And the study doesn't even consider all the side streets, businesses, and homes. 300 something homes in Key Largo are just the start....https://www.esquire.com/news-politi...rida-keys-climate-change-king-tide-key-largo/ Feel free to laugh at the source, but it doesn't change the facts. How many homes and businesses in the Keys will become permanently inaccessible in the next 20 - 50 years? Will FEMA buy out every home? Will a bank provide a mortgage if the homeowner can find a buyer? Will an insurance company provide coverage? How many people will lose a lifetime of investment (and how much of your tax money will be used to buy them out)? Where will the drinking water come from if salt water intrusion makes the current potable water supply wells unusable?

Then multiply the problem in Key Largo by Jacksonville, Cocoa Beach (NASA), West Palm Beach, Miami, Naples, Tampa (home of Central Command at elevation about 4-feet), in Florida alone. What happens to all those Florida port facilities and airports? What if the levies around New Orleans can't be built high enough? Are we going to just abandon all/parts of that great city? What if large parts of Galveston/Houston are permanently inundated and can't be protected? Who is gonna pay to move all those refineries and chemical plants? The risk of extreme long-term economic losses seems to be very high. It is beyond me that there are folks around that just want to pretend the problem doesn't exist.
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LOL. You have been warned by your AGW alarmist heroes for forty years now. If you decide to remain in Florida when catastrophe finally does occur.....well you were warned....repeatedly. No handouts for you. How many warnings does it take before you take things seriously? If you won't take the warnings serious and remain....why should anyone else take them seriously? :D
 
GT_EE78

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Sidewalking said:
LOL. You have been warned by your AGW alarmist heroes for forty years now. If you decide to remain in Florida when catastrophe finally does occur.....well you were warned....repeatedly. No handouts for you. How many warnings does it take before you take things seriously? If you won't take the warnings serious and remain....why should anyone else take them seriously? :D
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Taxpayers should take it seriously.
Those living at or near sea level should know the risk they're taking and so should not be eligible for FEMA or taxpayer assistance.
(and that goes double for anyone in a sanctuary city,county or state - yup nobody in California should get FEMA or taxpayer funds)
Buy your own insurance!
 
TampaBuzz

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Supersizethatorder-mutt said:
Greenpeace Co-Founder: Global Warming ‘Is A Complete Hoax And Scam’

https://www.technocracy.news/greenp...sdo2cGG_Sft9yt930WfRg7pwf5A54qmhDxNpwQEbmSNGM
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Considering that the source is Breitbart (famous for conspiracy theories) and that the article did not actually provide any scientific evidence, only conspiracy theories (big surprise!); I choose to ignore this reference. If I understand it correctly, the whole premise of this article is that some "green" people have been using fear to generate revenues to support their cause. And that using fear for that purpose is a hoax and a scam.
 
Supersizethatorder-mutt

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The point of the article was that someone formerly held in very high regard by the environmental community is now saying the whole thing is a hoax and a scam. The article never attempted to justify or prove his claims, only to report them, and that is what the article did. So why would you choose to ignore that?
 
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