2015 Warmest Year on Record

Northeast Stinger

Northeast Stinger

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bwelbo said:
Here is a trick answer. Tax write offs by the company (like R&D) don't count. Because then whoever is biggest gets the most. Plus, the consumer matters most since technically companies don't pay taxes - they just pass it along as a cost. So which industry has their consumers most heavily subsidized to incent them to buy their products.
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Yeah. My answer was cars. Last I checked the federal budget for highways was around $44 billion. Georgia's DOT budget is around $800 million. Taxes on gasoline, toll roads, express lanes, taxes on trucks and so forth are all part of the ways in which cars are subsidized. Even before we mention auto bailouts and other subsidies there is a lot of government support to keep our cars rolling. Not arguing that this is good or bad, though that is a separate question, but just that government support is pretty much built into the system. Henry Ford was helped a great deal by the government and you and I would probably not even own cars if we had had to build our own highway system apart from the government.

I have not looked up the numbers on big oil but I suspect from research I did on this several decades ago that they continue to get sweetheart deals from the government that allow them to write off things that most small businesses can not. They also have been able to use public lands in ways that cost the tax payer millions. I remember a Washington Post article that showed that oil companies were leasing public lands for around $1.50 an acre. That's pretty good support if you can get it. But, for me, the bottom line is this. Big Oil was jump started by massive support from the government and would probably not exist today had that support been less bold. The same is true for the airline industry. So, whether cars, planes or oil, government was pretty necessary or these things would not have happened.

I don't read USA Today as a rule but found this article interesting.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/trav...-much-do-taxpayers-support-airlines/71568226/
 
Whiskey_Clear

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Though I'm against big government I'm ok with government subsidies etc where strategic national security interests are at stake. Up to a point. This would of course include our interstate system, air travel infrastructure, power production, and national resource reserves like oil and mineral deposits.

The problem with the above is to what point? How much does or is corruption seeping in? You really have to get into the weeds in any of the above to determine what level of subsidies is best. That is supposed to be the job for Congress to determine. And we all know how screwed up and ineffective that body has become.
 
Northeast Stinger

Northeast Stinger

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11,190
Whiskey_Clear said:
Though I'm against big government I'm ok with government subsidies etc where strategic national security interests are at stake. Up to a point. This would of course include our interstate system, air travel infrastructure, power production, and national resource reserves like oil and mineral deposits.

The problem with the above is to what point? How much does or is corruption seeping in? You really have to get into the weeds in any of the above to determine what level of subsidies is best. That is supposed to be the job for Congress to determine. And we all know how screwed up and ineffective that body has become.
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Yes. That sums it up. Government / Private Sector partnerships go back to our founding fathers. If we like it, we say it was a good partnership. If we don't like it, we say the government was picking winners and losers.

An example of my bias would be with passenger rail service. I think it would be a huge economic advantage for our country in the long run but because of various lobby groups we are not willing to put the kind of money into it that we put into car and plane travel nor are we willing to subsidize the way we do with rail freight systems.
 
Whiskey_Clear

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awbuzz said:
I'm pleasantly surprised that wapo put that story out.
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They are just getting a dig in at a competitor...a like minded competitor but a competitor nonetheless.

I think this NYT story is a bit blown out of proportion and more about journalistic incompetence than anything else.
 
AE 87

AE 87

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Whiskey_Clear said:
They are just getting a dig in at a competitor...a like minded competitor but a competitor nonetheless.

I think this NYT story is a bit blown out of proportion and more about journalistic incompetence than anything else.
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Every NYT story is about journalistic incompetence.

Recently, an email from a NYT reporter to an EPA union head solicited anecdotes in support of negative rumors about EPA director. It didn't solicit anecdotes that might contradict the rumors.
 
Whiskey_Clear

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https://www.spectator.com.au/2017/08/big-data-finds-the-medieval-warm-period-no-denial-here/

Leo Tolstoy-
" The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he already knows, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him."

Which side of this debate is most certain in their belief?
 
Northeast Stinger

Northeast Stinger

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11,190
Whiskey_Clear said:


A humorous rebuttal to John Oliver's philosophy on energy production.
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Would be funny but, unfortunately, he does the very same thing he accuses John Oliver of, he takes lots of quotes out of context. John Oliver actually called out the politicians who blocked the Yuca Mountain project in his segment. He was not against nuclear power, he was against all the ways we take short cuts with other people's health. I lived near the Savannah River Plant for a few years and we routinely recorded several thousand tritium releases every year. The people who did not live in the area always said these releases were at "safe levels." Amazing.

I could go on and point out multiple ways he twists John Oliver's position but I would be missing the point, which is, both these guys are trying to be funny. So one humorist taking issue with another humorist's humor is in itself absurdly funny.
 
Whiskey_Clear

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@Northeast Stinger

I gotta go back and ask again though....what mix of power production would you propose? The only true forms of clean energy are hydro and wind and there are eco opponents to both of those also. Not to mention the fact that both together couldn't come close to meeting our energy needs.

I'd bet you a $1000 that if someone proposed harnessing energy from ocean waves and currents the eco nuts would oppose that also. For the potential of harming reefs, corrals, kelp, or sea lice even.

I'm still waiting for an AGW alarmist to propose a method of meeting our energy needs without either crippling our economy or taxing the :poop: out of us with little to show for it.
 
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