2014 Offense Prediction: Return of the Midline Lead Option

AE 87

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It's not a mid-line; that's a regular TO play where the QB reads the DE and turns the play up inside. On a mid-line, the play side guard wouldn't be drive blocking; he would be releasing to the second level and looking to execute a seal block on the weakside outside linebacker or strong safety.

I didn't think it was a midline either. That's why I was asking @Longestday why he thought it was. He and I had talked about that play before. I think it's a planned QB keeper off the triple option motion.

Three things indicate to me that it wasn't a true triple option either. One, I don't think it was a real mesh with Laskey who looked to be going up to block. If it was a true triple option, then the correct read would have been to give to Laskey since PSDE Tyler Stargel didn't take the dive. Tyler looks like he's expecting the typical outside triple option route from TB who cuts it up. Two, the PSAB (Days) doesn't go out to cut or drive a corner or safety. Rather, he goes straight up and seal-blocks the LB (Nealy, I think). Three, the OL seems to be drive blocking, the backside guys aren't scoop/cut blocking and the PS tackle down blocks the crashing DB but looks like would be drive blocking the DT regardless. In other words, the PSOT is not trying to get up to the next level to seal block as he would in a typical triple option.

So, I think this was a called QB keeper that just expects him to be able to beat the unblocked DE. The DE will typically take himself out of the play by tackling the B-Back, but if he chooses to take the QB, playing it the way Stargell played it makes sense. It's a good play. I think we ran it a lot in the Spring game with Griffin.

If I'm right, it's the same play that the 2009 GT-VPI announcer called the Quarterback Lead: 1:00:28

 

daBuzz

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I didn't think it was a midline either. That's why I was asking @Longestday why he thought it was. He and I had talked about that play before. I think it's a planned QB keeper off the triple option motion.

Three things indicate to me that it wasn't a true triple option either. One, I don't think it was a real mesh with Laskey who looked to be going up to block. If it was a true triple option, then the correct read would have been to give to Laskey since PSDE Tyler Stargel didn't take the dive. Tyler looks like he's expecting the typical outside triple option route from TB who cuts it up. Two, the PSAB (Days) doesn't go out to cut or drive a corner or safety. Rather, he goes straight up and seal-blocks the LB (Nealy, I think). Three, the OL seems to be drive blocking, the backside guys aren't scoop/cut blocking and the PS tackle down blocks the crashing DB but looks like would be drive blocking the DT regardless. In other words, the PSOT is not trying to get up to the next level to seal block as he would in a typical triple option.

So, I think this was a called QB keeper that just expects him to be able to beat the unblocked DE. The DE will typically take himself out of the play by tackling the B-Back, but if he chooses to take the QB, playing it the way Stargell played it makes sense. It's a good play. I think we ran it a lot in the Spring game with Griffin.

If I'm right, it's the same play that the 2009 GT-VPI announcer called the Quarterback Lead: 1:00:28


You could very well be correct. I don't claim to be that much of an expert that I can tell the difference.
When CPJ first came to GT, I wanted to find out about the TO so I went out and read a whole bunch of info on the web about it and found a few good sites with some decent detail. Here is a link to one of the ones I thought was pretty good, if anyone is interested in reading it:

Link
 

Longestday

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You guys are most likely right on play call in the videos above.

Tim's spring game 2013 was outstanding and he did better in 2013 than Griffen in spring of 2014 as far as moving the ball down the field.

Tim only saw mop up duty in games we had out of hand and the end of the Miami game in 2013.
Tim ran the offense well in all cases leading to scores or running out the clock (could have been scores).

Tim had great footwork and meshes in 2013 open scrimmages. I have these posted on youtube if you want to go watch. He also threw the ball very well... he is the one that threw Smelter's amazing practice reception. He was never behind JT in reading the field. JT is just so darn athletic in his agility and speed. CPJ also owes JT his best shot given his commit to us (my own assumption).

I am rooting for both JT and Byerly as they each bring something special to the field.
 

Longestday

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Ok I watched is again to see what I was thinking...

The DE is blocked out and cannot be a 3TO.
This is not a 3TO that the QB turned inside as the "pitch" AB goes up the hole as well.
LB steps inside. This closes Laskey's hole. Key to keep the ball.
If the LB steps out to cover the "3TO" then you would give to Laskey.

Normally on a 3TO the DE takes the BB and the LB takes the QB on the "outside". This play would take advantage of a LB heading to the outside to quick.

That is only me guessing. Perhaps this is a called QB keeper version of the midline as guys say. I don't know.
 

nodawgs

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The Byerly play is Veer and it looks like he missed the read on the DE. The Va Tech play also Veer, but was a predetermined qb keep. Since the qb is going to keep the ball, the B back fakes the dive and reach blocks the overhang. On most of our predetermined veer plays, the DE is blocked. We switch up who blocks him. It can be a back or there can be a BOB call and the OT will block him.
 

AE 87

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Ok I watched is again to see what I was thinking...

The DE is blocked out and cannot be a 3TO.
This is not a 3TO that the QB turned inside as the "pitch" AB goes up the hole as well.
LB steps inside. This closes Laskey's hole. Key to keep the ball.
If the LB steps out to cover the "3TO" then you would give to Laskey.

Normally on a 3TO the DE takes the BB and the LB takes the QB on the "outside". This play would take advantage of a LB heading to the outside to quick.

That is only me guessing. Perhaps this is a called QB keeper version of the midline as guys say. I don't know.

I'm not sure which one you re-watched here. Of the vids you posted in this thread, imo, the plays (your labels in parentheses) are as follows:
#44 (midline): Midline Lead Option
#45 (Byerly Midline?:Option?): A QB keeper off inside veer triple option motion, blocking by OL and playside A-Back different from triple-option, called QB Lead?
#46 (Byerly Option 2): Inside veer Triple, quick read: pull-pitch
#47 (Byerly Option 4): Inside veer Triple Counter-Option

Perhaps @stylee could bring his expertise. He's a coach, and I just play one on the internet
 

gtg936g

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#45 is a strange looking play. TB eyes are on #99 like he is making a read, but Laskey aborts the mesh (or TB pulls way early), Days takes the LB and no one takes the safety. I would guess that it should have been a TO give but the DE was never forced to commit to the BB because of the mesh. If it were a designed keep I would expect Laskey to collide with the DE.
 

bravejason

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I'm not sure which one you re-watched here. Of the vids you posted in this thread, imo, the plays (your labels in parentheses) are as follows:
#44 (midline): Midline Lead Option
#45 (Byerly Midline?:Option?): A QB keeper off inside veer triple option motion, blocking by OL and playside A-Back different from triple-option, called QB Lead?
#46 (Byerly Option 2): Inside veer Triple, quick read: pull-pitch
#47 (Byerly Option 4): Inside veer Triple Counter-Option

Perhaps @stylee could bring his expertise. He's a coach, and I just play one on the internet

I disagree with you about #44(midline) being a Midline Lead Option. There are no unblocked defenders. This looks like a called QB keep. Normally, we see this with the BB as the lead blocker. However, in this video the backside AB is the lead blocker.

I agree with you about #45 (Byerly Midline?:Option?). I suspect this was a case of the DE always stepping out to take the QB, so the playcalling adjustment is to have the QB keep and use the BB as a lead blocker. In effect, it is a QB follow except that neither the playside DE or LB are blocked because they are taking themselves out of the play by virtue of their defensive assignments.

#46 (Byerly Option 2) looks like a triple option with the defense executing a blood stunt. A blood stunt is when both the dive key and the pitch key simultaneously charge the mesh at the snap. The pull-pitch by the QB is the correct response to a blood stunt.

#47 (Byerly Option 4) looks like a counter option of some sort, though it isn't what I normally think of as "The Counter Option", which has a pulling guard and the BB's track is to the backside.
 

AE 87

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I disagree with you about #44(midline) being a Midline Lead Option. There are no unblocked defenders. This looks like a called QB keep. Normally, we see this with the BB as the lead blocker. However, in this video the backside AB is the lead blocker.

I agree with you about #45 (Byerly Midline?:Option?). I suspect this was a case of the DE always stepping out to take the QB, so the playcalling adjustment is to have the QB keep and use the BB as a lead blocker. In effect, it is a QB follow except that neither the playside DE or LB are blocked because they are taking themselves out of the play by virtue of their defensive assignments.

#46 (Byerly Option 2) looks like a triple option with the defense executing a blood stunt. A blood stunt is when both the dive key and the pitch key simultaneously charge the mesh at the snap. The pull-pitch by the QB is the correct response to a blood stunt.

#47 (Byerly Option 4) looks like a counter option of some sort, though it isn't what I normally think of as "The Counter Option", which has a pulling guard and the BB's track is to the backside.

Good call on all points, almost, imo. #44 was certainly midline-lead option motion. The back side/trail A-back is the lead blocker on this play and the b-back dive path is right up the middle. You are right that it wasn't a true option since the OT down blocked the playside tackle. Thanks.
 

Boomergump

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As a side note, I think it will be really cool having Roddy as color guy because he will be able to diagnose and articulate the play calls really well. I haven't watched each play to give my feedback about what the play calls actually were in these instances. However, I am glad we are discussing it at this level. I have a tone of fun watching games closely a second time slowed down for this very reason. It is really fun to see what we are doing and how we change things up on the fly.
 

Longestday

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My earlier comments are on 45 as I believe this to be a mid line.

46 and 47 are an option and not a mid line. I believe Byerly is quick pitching when "reading" the cross charge or if the LB is playing outside the DE (like a cross charge).
 

AE 87

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My earlier comments are on 45 as I believe this to be a mid line.

46 and 47 are an option and not a mid line. I believe Byerly is quick pitching when "reading" the cross charge or if the LB is playing outside the DE (like a cross charge).

You might want to watch #45 again. The DE, Stargel, is unblocked. The right tackle is down blocking the linebacker, Hunt-Days, not the DE.
 

33jacket

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#44 is a midline
#45 is a normal option he cut up field. If I were the coach the film lesson is to widen that play, hold the ball a tad longer and pitch off that end to a AB that has one on one with a CB....
#46 is a classic inside veer
#47 is a inside veer with an AB executing a counter motion. The difference between 46 and 47 is nothing...window dressing by the AB. The playside AB in 46 stays and arcs. The playside AB in 47 fakes topside motion but the play is identical to 46. It is not a counter....its a fake counter veer

Paul does this in #47 to take advantage of defenses flowing to the motion AB....its the same play as 46.
 

zhavenor

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#44 is a midline
#45 is a normal option he cut up field. If I were the coach the film lesson is to widen that play, hold the ball a tad longer and pitch off that end to a AB that has one on one with a CB....
#46 is a classic inside veer
#47 is a inside veer with an AB executing a counter motion. The difference between 46 and 47 is nothing...window dressing by the AB. The playside AB in 46 stays and arcs. The playside AB in 47 fakes topside motion but the play is identical to 46. It is not a counter....its a fake counter veer

Paul does this in #47 to take advantage of defenses flowing to the motion AB....its the same play as 46.
As for 45, I agree it is a normal option but it appears he misreads his dive key. One of the first rules you learn as an option QB is you never pitch off the dive key. You get someone, i.e. the pitch back, killed doing that. The QB following the dive back on a misread is pretty normal QB adjustment in that circumstance.
 

AE 87

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As for 45, I agree it is a normal option but it appears he misreads his dive key. One of the first rules you learn as an option QB is you never pitch off the dive key. You get someone, i.e. the pitch back, killed doing that. The QB following the dive back on a misread is pretty normal QB adjustment in that circumstance.

There was no mesh. It's hard to blame TB for a bad read when ZL, whether by play-call or read, didn't mesh with him.

That being said, there was another play where ZL seemed to be running past the mesh point and TB tried to give him the ball anyway. It resulted in a fumble.

I like your point about the QB not pitching on the dive-key but following the dive back.
 

zhavenor

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There was no mesh. It's hard to blame TB for a bad read when ZL, whether by play-call or read, didn't mesh with him.

That being said, there was another play where ZL seemed to be running past the mesh point and TB tried to give him the ball anyway. It resulted in a fumble.

I like your point about the QB not pitching on the dive-key but following the dive back.
Your right. I went back and looked. There was no mesh at all. I think I was looking more at TB than where ZL hands and arms were. Sorry about that.
 
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