Which program is positioned best for long-term success?

[CuseJacket]

Clemson, Florida State or Georgia Tech?

Poll included.

 

[kg01]

How do you define long term success?

I voted GT but not due to anything we've seen so far. More a reflection of where I expect FSU and Clem to go in the near future.

I think Clem is going to change coaches soon and that this year is only an aberration. I think Methuselah can't possibly be long for Tallahassee so change will be coming there as well.

IOW, for me, we won by default.

ETA: Also, major party foul on the OP for not putting his opinion out there first.

 

[jeffgt14]

Does Leonard Hamilton age based on his age or based on how old he looks like he is in this hypothetical?

 

[lv20gt]

I put FSU because I think they're in the best position currently and basketball is so momentum based as a program imo. That is reliant on them making a good hire once Hamilton retires though. I have a hard time putting a program that hasn't been to the dance in nearly 10 years as being in a better shape than a current sweet 16 team.

 

[Peacone36]

FSU has money and one of the best recruiters in the southeast and the ability to get whatever kid they want into school. Regardless of Hamilton’s do less with more propensity I say FSU

 

[CuseJacket]

How do you define long term success?

I voted GT but not due to anything we've seen so far. More a reflection of where I expect FSU and Clem to go in the near future.

I think Clem is going to change coaches soon and that this year is only an aberration. I think Methuselah can't possibly be long for Tallahassee so change will be coming there as well.

IOW, for me, we won by default.

ETA: Also, major party foul on the OP for not putting his opinion out there first.

Let's call "long-term" 5-10 years out and beyond. That's enough time where each team might replace a coach for one reason or another.

Obviously the 3 programs are starting in different places right now. I'm curious who folks think will do better on the whole over time.

Re: my opinion, that's actually the reason I created the thread. I've been thinking about this a while and have one. Just didn't want mine to be the premise of this topic or sway the discussion a specific direction.

 

[jeffgt14]

Right now I'd say FSU for pretty much all the reasons Peacone mentioned. It really depends on what the NBA does with the 1 and done rule as I think FSU would take a step back if it's reversed. Sure they don't have many 1 and dones but they're definitely getting those guys and just do so little with them that they have to stick around.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I think we have the much better coach and a high potential for improvement, but both of those schools have tons of hard to beat advantages over us (more lax academics, more funding, etc.). So I refused to vote. I guess I left an abstain on your pole. #SorryNotSorryNotGonnaEdit

 

[SteamWhistle]

100% GT, Success for GT is beating UGA and going to a bowl. It's very hard to see us not doing at least one of those things every year from here out.

 

[SteamWhistle]

100% GT, Success for GT is beating UGA and going to a bowl. It's very hard to see us not doing at least one of those things every year from here out.

I'm an idiot cause I just realized this was basketball forum.

 

[smokey_wasp]

I'm the one fool who said Clemson. Truthfully, I believe it is us because I believe in Pastner's upside. But, I pretty much lack any tangible evidence whatsoever.

 

[smokey_wasp]

I'm an idiot cause I just realized this was basketball forum.

I'm just impressed that you thought it was football and you picked us over Clemson. True believer!

 

[CuseJacket]

So, I posted this to see if I am wearing gold-colored glasses. Admittedly, posting the question on a GT message board is probably not the best gauge, but here's what I'm taking from the results.

Votes currently
Clemson - 5
Florida State - 16
Georgia Tech - 21

So, my stance re: Clemson is consistent with others. We don't think Clemson has staying power, or some think GT is going to be top 10 long-term, who knows. In any case, Clemson has never struck me as a school that cares about basketball, and the votes seem to show some commonality in thought.

Where I may differ with potential personal bias, is I think Florida State is closer to Clemson than they are to us, potential-wise long-term.

• The upside for them is they have a head start as of today in terms of talent. This year of course is their pinnacle with an Elite 8 berth, which doesn't help in our race vs. FSU.
• Downside? Despite their "head start", in the 16 years with Leonard Hamilton they've been to the NCAA tournament just 6 times, including just 2 of the last 6 years. Of the 5 prior times they made it before this year, they reached the Sweet 16 once.

FSU seems content with those results, as evidenced by Hamilton's 16 year tenure. GT conversely ran off a coach who went to the tournament 5 times in 11 years. The expectations are different.

We are selling out our stadium, albeit a mid-sized stadium, despite our current status. In what we might consider our worst of times, we've been to the tournament 2 fewer times than FSU in the last 16 years. We're on our 3rd coach, voluntarily, due to those results.

In addition, I think nationally our brand is stronger in basketball. At least that was my non-data driven perception in upstate NY, and continues to be my perception from those who I talk to outside of GA (who aren't likely pandering to my interests).

Definitely have more reasons for the opinion (balance of football vs. basketball, primarily), but I'll end it there. Agree/disagree? Do we as a fanbase give FSU too much respect? Are general expectations of GT lower than mine? What are you hearing from those outside of the GT fanbase?

 

[lv20gt]

Agree/disagree? Do we as a fanbase give FSU too much respect? Are general expectations of GT lower than mine? What are you hearing from those outside of the GT fanbase?

IMO when talking about basketball the team that is best set up for long term success are the teams that have the strongest recent history of success. While coaching make a big difference I don't think any of Hamilton, Brownell, or Pastner have separated themselves from the others either way. FSU has been to the NCAA 6 times now in the last 11 years, and 4 NIT trips. While they haven't been great, they have been in the discussion and for recruits today FSU is a perennial team that is still playing in march, where we haven't been to the NCAAT in 8 years. It's not the be all end all of recruiting, but we basically have to sell recruits on a vision of leading the charge back to the NCAAT rather than joining something established. Also hurts the type of transfers we are likely to land because the better transfers usually want to go to a team that's already in contention for post season play.

The good thing is that I don't think long term can really be projected beyond about 5 years. In gregory's last year we were about as poorly set up as we could be. Two years from now we could be in a great position. Outside of blue bloods basketball is a very volatile scene imo because of all the turnover.

 

[orientalnc]

I think it depends on what happens tonight and this weekend. If FSU and Clemson slide into the Final Four that would upset the old guard ACC for sure. I am picking FSU because of Charlton Young (assuming he stays) and his ability to connect with top recruits in Georgia and Florida. That could change if FSU loses bad to Michigan tomorrow, or Young leaves the program.

I think Clemson should enjoy their short term success. To get into the Final Four they have to beat Kansas and Duke tonight and Sunday. Maybe they will, but I would not bet on it. If they do not win this weekend, I expect them to fade back to where the program has been under Brownell.

We may have a bright future, but right now it's hard to see around the bend in the tunnel. Maybe there is a light there, but it's not yet visible.

 

[GTJake]

I voted GT mostly because of Pastner's passion, age and previous recruiting history.
But also GT's past basketball legacy should come into play and being in the ATL versus Tallahassee or Clemson should also matter.

 

[Peacone36]

I think it depends on what happens tonight and this weekend. If FSU and Clemson slide into the Final Four that would upset the old guard ACC for sure. I am picking FSU because of Charlton Young (assuming he stays) and his ability to connect with top recruits in Georgia and Florida. That could change if FSU loses bad to Michigan tomorrow, or Young leaves the program.

I think Clemson should enjoy their short term success. To get into the Final Four they have to beat Kansas and Duke tonight and Sunday. Maybe they will, but I would not bet on it. If they do not win this weekend, I expect them to fade back to where the program has been under Brownell.

We may have a bright future, but right now it's hard to see around the bend in the tunnel. Maybe there is a light there, but it's not yet visible.

Agreed about Clemson and their short term success. I havent seen anything that makes me think it is sustainable quite yet.

FSU, I dont think Young is going anywhere (or he would have by now) which means he will continue to stockpile talent for LH to under-utilize (yes i realize they are still playing). The only thing that gave me pause in voting for FSU was something interesting I heard on either ACC Weekly or ACC Degens: He has made that job what it is. Does FSU care enough about basketball to make a "splashy" hire when he inevitably ages out? Yet to be determined. Im sure they like the money they are making right now but obviously football is the bread and butter.

 

[brandon_cox]

It is not out of the realm of possibility that we make the tournament NEXT YEAR, but a lot of things will have to go right:

1. Josh returns
2. Everyone gets and stays healthy
3. Michael Devoe is as good as advertised.
4. One of Wright or Cole makes the 2nd year leap to a quality ACC player
5. One of Kristian Sjolund or Khalid Moore is able to contribute meaningfully as a freshman.
6. With Devoe, Alvarado, CGB, Okogie etc our 3 point shooting makes a quantum leap to near 40%
7. Everyone else continues to improve.

After a season where seemingly everything went wrong, maybe we're do for some good luck

 

[Peacone36]

It is not out of the realm of possibility that we make the tournament NEXT YEAR, but a lot of things will have to go right:

1. Josh returns
2. Everyone gets and stays healthy
3. Michael Devoe is as good as advertised.
4. One of Wright or Cole makes the 2nd year leap to a quality ACC player
5. One of Kristian Sjolund or Khalid Moore is able to contribute meaningfully as a freshman.
6. With Devoe, Alvarado, CGB, Okogie etc our 3 point shooting makes a quantum leap to near 40%
7. Everyone else continues to improve.

After a season where seemingly everything went wrong, maybe we're do for some good luck

1-KQ's tweet about JO the other day wasnt great but I expect him to get the feedback and return.
2-Always an unknown
3-Agreed, huge.
4-Wouldnt count on either one, I think it is a year early. Better to hope AD stays, stays healthy and remains as effective as he seemed to be second half of the season.
5-A Tall order. Again I think we need to place our front court play hopes on AD's play next year.
6-Agreed and likely
7-Given our coaching staff I think this is the most sure thing on the list.

 

[YlJacket]

I am assuming AD is the primary front court player next year but he isn't a 30 min guy and we are going to have to have someone play the 4.

To make the tourney I think we have to have an ACC level grad transfer big. Plus someone emerge so JO isn't the routine 4 (some small ball expected).

We can improve and probably sniff the bubbly without this but to actually make it we have to have more in the front court than just AD.