When does Pastner feel heat

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,568
Pastner inherited a team that was all sorts of out of whack roster wise. His first year we were projected to win 9 games in ACC play. We went 8-10. He earned ACC coach of the year that year and anyone who is trying to hold that year against him rather than as support for his coaching ability is ignorant at best and more likely just being disingenuous.
 

78pike

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
709
Pastner inherited a team that was all sorts of out of whack roster wise. His first year we were projected to win 9 games in ACC play. We went 8-10. He earned ACC coach of the year that year and anyone who is trying to hold that year against him rather than as support for his coaching ability is ignorant at best and more likely just being disingenuous.
I don't remember us being projected to win 9 ACC games in ACC play that first year. I seem to remember folks in the media wondering if we could win a single ACC game. The fact we made it to the NIT and came within a game of winning it was nothing short of a miracle based on the roster we had.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,568
I don't remember us being projected to win 9 ACC games in ACC play that first year. I seem to remember folks in the media wondering if we could win a single ACC game. The fact we made it to the NIT and came within a game of winning it was nothing short of a miracle based on the roster we had.

It should have been projected to win 0 games that year. Fat fingered the 9 instead.
 

MtnWasp

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
807
Pastner inherited a team that was all sorts of out of whack roster wise. His first year we were projected to win 9 games in ACC play. We went 8-10. He earned ACC coach of the year that year and anyone who is trying to hold that year against him rather than as support for his coaching ability is ignorant at best and more likely just being disingenuous.
That team lost 78% of its scoring and 80% of minutes played. The most optimistic projection I saw was for 3 ACC wins. Many if not most projected that we wouldn't win an ACC game.

Our starting back court was Heath and Heyward. Two guys who could not score at all.
 

ESPNjacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,502
I am pretty sure the vast majority of GT "fans" complaining about the basketball program don't watch the games. Last year was terrible but we are only one year removed from our first ACC championship since 1993 and back to back winning records in the conference. His seat is not hot.
 

Steverc

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
310
Gregory's top guys his last year were Georges-Hunt, Smith, Jacobs, Mitchell, and Stephens. He left Pastner a top five of Okogie, Lammers, Jackson, Stephens, and Heath. I would say he left Pastner with a group that was a little better than his last group which went 21-15 with a third round loss in the NIT. Pastner went 21-16 and lost in the NIT final. Who is to say that Gregory would not have had the same marginal success with the Okogie group. Pastner's two wins in the ACC tournament in the COVID year were good, but not great. In any event, both coaches inherited difficult situations. Hewitt left an APR nightmare that nearly left us ineligible for post season play and Gregory had to recruit while playing all home games at Gwinnett Arena without students. He did not advance the program much, but he did clean it up. I don't think he left the dumster fire that some argue. You always hear candidates for President say, "Are you better off now than 4 years ago?" I ask, is our basketball team better off now than 6 years ago? I believe we are no worse, but definitely no better. The one thing Pastner has done well is consistently set expectation levels low. How many times did we have to hear him say, "This is a major, major rebuild." His own players also heard it and so did recruits. I got to hand it to him, his self-preservations skills are unmatched.
 

ESPNjacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,502
Gregory's top guys his last year were Georges-Hunt, Smith, Jacobs, Mitchell, and Stephens. He left Pastner a top five of Okogie, Lammers, Jackson, Stephens, and Heath. I would say he left Pastner with a group that was a little better than his last group which went 21-15 with a third round loss in the NIT. Pastner went 21-16 and lost in the NIT final. Who is to say that Gregory would not have had the same marginal success with the Okogie group. Pastner's two wins in the ACC tournament in the COVID year were good, but not great. In any event, both coaches inherited difficult situations. Hewitt left an APR nightmare that nearly left us ineligible for post season play and Gregory had to recruit while playing all home games at Gwinnett Arena without students. He did not advance the program much, but he did clean it up. I don't think he left the dumster fire that some argue. You always hear candidates for President say, "Are you better off now than 4 years ago?" I ask, is our basketball team better off now than 6 years ago? I believe we are no worse, but definitely no better. The one thing Pastner has done well is consistently set expectation levels low. How many times did we have to hear him say, "This is a major, major rebuild." His own players also heard it and so did recruits. I got to hand it to him, his self-preservations skills are unmatched.
Gregory's last team had one player who was not a senior play 50% of the time. That was Stephens at 50.2%.

He left a team with very little experience. Pastner and his coaches deserve a lot of credit for their coaching job that year. If those guys tried to run Gregory's terrible offense they would have been awful. Lammers would have barely touched the ball in the low post instead of initiating the offense from the high post.
 

gtphd

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
333
Pastner inherited a team that was all sorts of out of whack roster wise. His first year we were projected to win 9 games in ACC play. We went 8-10. He earned ACC coach of the year that year and anyone who is trying to hold that year against him rather than as support for his coaching ability is ignorant at best and more likely just being disingenuous.

Wins matter.

What I’ve learned in this thread is how far the program has fallen that we’re happy with empty arenas, sun 0.500 seasons, and finishing worse than 10th in the ACC as long as we get moral victories.

What do you expect from a Tech MBB coach? I expect an NCAAT birth every other year, a deep tourney run 1-2 times a decade, and winning ACC record every year.
 

GTNavyNuke

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
9,918
Location
Williamsburg Virginia
Gregory's top guys his last year were Georges-Hunt, Smith, Jacobs, Mitchell, and Stephens. He left Pastner a top five of Okogie, Lammers, Jackson, Stephens, and Heath. I would say he left Pastner with a group that was a little better than his last group which went 21-15 with a third round loss in the NIT. Pastner went 21-16 and lost in the NIT final. Who is to say that Gregory would not have had the same marginal success with the Okogie group. Pastner's two wins in the ACC tournament in the COVID year were good, but not great. In any event, both coaches inherited difficult situations. Hewitt left an APR nightmare that nearly left us ineligible for post season play and Gregory had to recruit while playing all home games at Gwinnett Arena without students. He did not advance the program much, but he did clean it up. I don't think he left the dumster fire that some argue. You always hear candidates for President say, "Are you better off now than 4 years ago?" I ask, is our basketball team better off now than 6 years ago? I believe we are no worse, but definitely no better. The one thing Pastner has done well is consistently set expectation levels low. How many times did we have to hear him say, "This is a major, major rebuild." His own players also heard it and so did recruits. I got to hand it to him, his self-preservations skills are unmatched.

I liked Gregory too. But I think Pastner is the better coach and recruiter.

He should stay. As long as we have kept Hall (NCAA every year but no recent advance), we can keep Pastner.
 

gtphd

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
333
I liked Gregory too. But I think Pastner is the better coach and recruiter.

He should stay. As long as we have kept Hall (NCAA every year but no recent advance), we can keep Pastner.
Hall makes the NCAAT every year. Pastner does not
 

Jacketman99

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
944
Gregory's top guys his last year were Georges-Hunt, Smith, Jacobs, Mitchell, and Stephens. He left Pastner a top five of Okogie, Lammers, Jackson, Stephens, and Heath. I would say he left Pastner with a group that was a little better than his last group which went 21-15 with a third round loss in the NIT. Pastner went 21-16 and lost in the NIT final. Who is to say that Gregory would not have had the same marginal success with the Okogie group. Pastner's two wins in the ACC tournament in the COVID year were good, but not great. In any event, both coaches inherited difficult situations. Hewitt left an APR nightmare that nearly left us ineligible for post season play and Gregory had to recruit while playing all home games at Gwinnett Arena without students. He did not advance the program much, but he did clean it up. I don't think he left the dumster fire that some argue. You always hear candidates for President say, "Are you better off now than 4 years ago?" I ask, is our basketball team better off now than 6 years ago? I believe we are no worse, but definitely no better. The one thing Pastner has done well is consistently set expectation levels low. How many times did we have to hear him say, "This is a major, major rebuild." His own players also heard it and so did recruits. I got to hand it to him, his self-preservations skills are unmatched.
Are we really trying to defend Gregory? He was horrible and should have never been at GT. The players he left for Pastner had done nothing. Stephens was the most accomplished and he had a career average of less than 5 points per game in the 3 seasons before Pastner arrived. Lammers had averaged about 3 point per game. Jackson was around 3 point per game as well. Okogie was considered a good recruit, not a great one (3 star by both 247 and Rivals; 182 player in the country by 247 composite). Most people, including many within the program thought GT may not win a single game in conference.
 

Jacketman99

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
944
To be honest, as good of a coach as Reveno was coaching bigs, he was a complete liability recruiting. I believe we upgraded tremendously in that department.
 

MtnWasp

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
807
Wins matter.

What I’ve learned in this thread is how far the program has fallen that we’re happy with empty arenas, sun 0.500 seasons, and finishing worse than 10th in the ACC as long as we get moral victories.

What do you expect from a Tech MBB coach? I expect an NCAAT birth every other year, a deep tourney run 1-2 times a decade, and winning ACC record every year.
People are free to expect what they want, but there is absolutely no historical precedence on which to base an expectation of a winning ACC record every year. None whatsoever.

When Pastner's teams put together consecutive 11 win ACC seasons, that was only the 4th time that GT had two consecutive winning seasons in the ACC. The other three times were by Cremins. Hewitt never did it in his 11 seasons. Cremins put together 3 consecutive winning ACC seasons only once in 19 years.

An NCAAT birth every other year is also pie in the sky for several reasons, but all amount to decreasing the statistical probability of getting an NCAAT bid:

1. When Cremins was going every year, there were only about 310 teams. Now there are 353 NCAAT eligible teams. An increase of around 15%
2. The rise of the mid-major programs and a selection process that favors mid-majors with fine records over mediocre Power 5 teams for at-large bids. Three of Cremins' 9 consecutive tournament teams would not have sniffed the NCAAT in the current era.
3. Power conference expansion. Having 15 teams in conference means larger conference slates and more teams relegated to .500 or below records in the Power 5. Being in the middle of an 8 team conference (with three of four teams above you in the conference) is not the same as being as being in the middle of a Mega-conference with 5 to 7 teams above you).
4. Power-5 budgets are pulling away from the ACC due to inequity of TV contracts, and GT ranks second to the bottom within the ACC. We are at the bottom of the bottom for Power-5 programs.

Empty arenas is not the solitary problem of GT. Half empty arenas are because young people are addicted to computer screens and Worlds of Warcraft or whatever and don't value going to live events.

We all want to win but wanting to win is not the same thing as a commitment to excellence. Fans understanding the bigger picture and, in the face of reality, are still trying to enjoy some college basketball. That is not settling for mediocrity. Pastner tries to get his teams to play good team basketball, they play hard, the kids represent very well. Lammers, Alvarado, Wright, those are stories that harken to the good old days. I am not going to withhold support because this coach can't magically overcome all the problems listed above and have us performing like a blue-blood program.
 

gtphd

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
333
We all want to win but wanting to win is not the same thing as a commitment to excellence. Fans understanding the bigger picture and, in the face of reality, are still trying to enjoy some college basketball. That is not settling for mediocrity. Pastner tries to get his teams to play good team basketball, they play hard, the kids represent very well.
You seem to love your no true Scotsman fallacies.

Georgia Tech is an embarrassment in basketball. Even Baghdad Bob can’t spin that. And that’s not just on the court but off the court, as well. Accepting that isn’t settling for mediocrity, it’s settling for failure.

You can complain about blue bloods and why settling in the bottom third of the ACC is somehow success, but it actually hurts GT. This is why CGC gets another year to lose and Pastner gets an extension he doesn’t deserve.

Fans that accept failure are the reason Tech is failing at sports right now. Shame on you.
 

D-man44

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,799
You seem to love your no true Scotsman fallacies.

Georgia Tech is an embarrassment in basketball. Even Baghdad Bob can’t spin that. And that’s not just on the court but off the court, as well. Accepting that isn’t settling for mediocrity, it’s settling for failure.

You can complain about blue bloods and why settling in the bottom third of the ACC is somehow success, but it actually hurts GT. This is why CGC gets another year to lose and Pastner gets an extension he doesn’t deserve.

Fans that accept failure are the reason Tech is failing at sports right now. Shame on you.
No they get another year because GT athletics is broke lol. I’m sure if GT had the athletic budget of UGAg it wouldn’t be in this situation. Instead of shaming people for accepting where GT is go donate more money.
 

Connell62

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
2,974
LOL....this thread.
Pastner inherited a team that was all sorts of out of whack roster wise. His first year we were projected to win 9 games in ACC play. We went 8-10. He earned ACC coach of the year that year and anyone who is trying to hold that year against him rather than as support for his coaching ability is ignorant at best and more likely just being disingenuous.
I’ll go with this option.
 

ESPNjacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,502
You seem to love your no true Scotsman fallacies.

Georgia Tech is an embarrassment in basketball. Even Baghdad Bob can’t spin that. And that’s not just on the court but off the court, as well. Accepting that isn’t settling for mediocrity, it’s settling for failure.

You can complain about blue bloods and why settling in the bottom third of the ACC is somehow success, but it actually hurts GT. This is why CGC gets another year to lose and Pastner gets an extension he doesn’t deserve.

Fans that accept failure are the reason Tech is failing at sports right now. Shame on you.
This is utter nonsense and self-important blather. Our fans aren't showing up. That is their only failing. Fan expectations are irrelevant to anything.
 

Connell62

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
2,974
Wins matter.

What I’ve learned in this thread is how far the program has fallen that we’re happy with empty arenas, sun 0.500 seasons, and finishing worse than 10th in the ACC as long as we get moral victories.

What do you expect from a Tech MBB coach? I expect an NCAAT birth every other year, a deep tourney run 1-2 times a decade, and winning ACC record every year.
Yes - let’s set our expectations for something that has only occurred during the golden era of GT hoops (i.e 30 years ago). A winning ACC record every year. Hell, the year we went to national title game, we were barely .500 in conference. Do a little research bud.

You’re so clueless that you don’t even understand what you’re suggesting. Josh has gotten us closer to a good program than we have been in 20 years. Aside from his first season and ACC COY, he delivered the first conference championship in decades and a Top 4 and Top 5 finish in back to back seasons.

Educate yourself on how we got here and then let’s have a discussion!
 

AUFC

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,270
Location
Atlanta
This is utter nonsense and self-important blather. Our fans aren't showing up. That is their only failing. Fan expectations are irrelevant to anything.
We don't have fans. This isn't a sports school and WBB is the only team with sidewalk fans. Those with connection to the Institute attend football games for 4 years because it's the thing to do on campus in the fall and then disconnect entirely.

Do I think 8600 person McCamish could be a fun way to spend a winter evening? Yes and most on this board probably agree. AD should focus on driving out more student sections like the Wisconsin game last season. I bet top players would want to play here if we did that consistently. I do my part, I haven't figured out how to get other alumni to join in.
 

78pike

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
709
No they get another year because GT athletics is broke lol. I’m sure if GT had the athletic budget of UGAg it wouldn’t be in this situation. Instead of shaming people for accepting where GT is go donate more money.
And despite the huge disparity in athletic budgets we still beat them in both men's and women's basketball, baseball, volleyball, softball and golf.
 
Top