What on earth are we doing!

eetech

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
209
Bringing in a coach from the NBA without big money assistants familiar with the college game was a huge mistake. The NBA is not real basketball. The Hawks lost 157-152 a few days ago. Trying to bring that style to college where players actually play and respond to coaches is not a recipe for success.

And please don’t try to defend the product that is the NBA. If you like watching individuals that are extremely skilled and athletic it’s for you. If you like watching true competition look elsewhere. Those guys loaf up and down the court constantly.
Tell me you don’t watch the NBA without telling me you don’t watch the NBA.

Outside of maybe James Harden on defense NBA players play ridiculously hard.

The idea that they don’t is a nonsensical myth that people who don’t watch the game come up with based on hand picked lowlights.
 

78pike

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
899
I find it comical that so many posters here are yelling "the sky is falling" just 4 games into the season. We are a team with only 4 remaining players and one of them has been hurt all season. We have 9 new players including all of the front court and one of them just returned from injury, another just missed his first game, and yet another is playing with his hand heavily wrapped. We have a new coach running a new system. What did you all expect? Did you really think we would be a well oiled machine from the start of the season. All of you are just guessing as to what the coach is trying to accomplish at this point of the season but none of you actually know. I get that none of us want to see the team lose like they did the last couple of games. But calling the coach and the team failures after just 4 games is ridiculous. What it boils down to is we haven't shot the ball very well lately. When the shooters start hitting shots like they should be our coach will all of a sudden be a genius, right?
 

57jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,585
I find it comical that so many posters here are yelling "the sky is falling" just 4 games into the season. We are a team with only 4 remaining players and one of them has been hurt all season. We have 9 new players including all of the front court and one of them just returned from injury, another just missed his first game, and yet another is playing with his hand heavily wrapped. We have a new coach running a new system. What did you all expect? Did you really think we would be a well oiled machine from the start of the season. All of you are just guessing as to what the coach is trying to accomplish at this point of the season but none of you actually know. I get that none of us want to see the team lose like they did the last couple of games. But calling the coach and the team failures after just 4 games is ridiculous. What it boils down to is we haven't shot the ball very well lately. When the shooters start hitting shots like they should be our coach will all of a sudden be a genius, right?
Great post! Well said. Thanks.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,585
What did you all expect?

From last year's team we were set to lose one player to running out of eligibility, Franklin. We do return "only" 4 players. They were 4 of our top 5 and are good for something like 6th highest returning production in conference. Still plenty to build around. It's also not a coincidence that all the ones who stayed were the top players. The new staff obviously came in and decided to tell players to look elsewhere, including players who would no doubt have been of use to us this year.

It is entirely reasonable to expect us to build on where we were to end last year. But we've looked like we completely regressed.
 

Boaty1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,104
Tell me you don’t watch the NBA without telling me you don’t watch the NBA.

Outside of maybe James Harden on defense NBA players play ridiculously hard.

The idea that they don’t is a nonsensical myth that people who don’t watch the game come up with based on hand picked lowlights.
Here you go brother. You can pull a million of these up if you would like. The effort level required in college compared to NBA is night and day. Could you imagine this type of effort being tolerated by a majority of good college coaches?

 

78pike

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
899
From last year's team we were set to lose one player to running out of eligibility, Franklin. We do return "only" 4 players. They were 4 of our top 5 and are good for something like 6th highest returning production in conference. Still plenty to build around. It's also not a coincidence that all the ones who stayed were the top players. The new staff obviously came in and decided to tell players to look elsewhere, including players who would no doubt have been of use to us this year.

It is entirely reasonable to expect us to build on where we were to end last year. But we've looked like we completely regressed.
So are you saying it is unreasonable for the team to take a while to gel and play like a seasoned team despite all the early injuries and learning a new system? You think we should be undefeated? The UMass game would have been a win if we hit anywhere near what we are capable of shooting the basketball. And sure we returned 4 of our top players but remember, they were the top players on a team that was 15-18 and only won 6 conference games. It's not like we are returning the top players from a team that won 25 games last year. I agree with you that it is reasonable to build on where we ended up last year, but I think 4 games (with a team that is not completely healthy) is not a big enough sample size to determine if we are improving or regressing. Finally, what players that are no longer on the team were going to help this year more than the players we brought in? I saw players that may have had one or two flashes of decent play but none of them were able to do it on a consistent basis. I didn't see you or anyone else on here regretting the fact they are no longer on the team before the season started. I believe Claude and Ndongo are definite upgrades from what we lost last year. And guys like Sacko and Gapare look like they have much more potential than what we lost.
 

AUFC

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,989
Location
Atlanta
The problem with “we are shooting badly and will regress to the mean” is that we aren’t really shooting badly. They are tough, contested shots (lots of time off the dribble) and we make them at a decent clip but there’s no guarantee this team will start taking (generating) good shots any time soon.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,585
So are you saying it is unreasonable for the team to take a while to gel and play like a seasoned team despite all the early injuries and learning a new system? You think we should be undefeated? The UMass game would have been a win if we hit anywhere near what we are capable of shooting the basketball. And sure we returned 4 of our top players but remember, they were the top players on a team that was 15-18 and only won 6 conference games. It's not like we are returning the top players from a team that won 25 games last year. I agree with you that it is reasonable to build on where we ended up last year, but I think 4 games (with a team that is not completely healthy) is not a big enough sample size to determine if we are improving or regressing. Finally, what players that are no longer on the team were going to help this year more than the players we brought in? I saw players that may have had one or two flashes of decent play but none of them were able to do it on a consistent basis. I didn't see you or anyone else on here regretting the fact they are no longer on the team before the season started. I believe Claude and Ndongo are definite upgrades from what we lost last year. And guys like Sacko and Gapare look like they have much more potential than what we lost.

We had back to back games against teams from one bid leagues where we played bad. We were lucky to escape with a win against Howard who led us for about 75% of the game. Remember when people were talking them up because they went dancing, as a 16 seed last year. They are now 2-4 with a pair of 20 point losses to compliment a loss to Bryant. In your hypothetical against UmassL do they also get to shoot their average? We didn't lose because we had an off night shooting and they torched the nets. They shot 13% from 3. And Cinci lost 4 of their top 5 scorers from last year and of the 10 players who average over 10 mpg half are new faces. We aren't the only team dealing with new faces.

Yeah, the team went 6-14 last year. We went 6-12 in 2018/2019 and followed that up going 11-9 in conference the following year then 11-6 the year after. Turns out returning a bunch of your core tends to lead to improvement. Yeah, we haven't gotten to conference play so things could still turn around, but this isn't a bad half or even a bad game. We haven't looked good in 4 games this year outside of a 10 minute stretch against a winless GSU team.

As far as who was going to help? How about Smith, a 4th year PG who led the team in assists per game (with a near 3-1 ATR) and was a great rebounder for a guard? The biggest issue with Smith was his shooting, but so far Abram has looked horrible in that regard and even if Abram turns that around Smith will almost certainly have been a better facilitator, rebounder, and defender this year. Also, Jalon Moore would have 100% been an upgrade over Gapare, Souare, and Sacko and likely better this year than Ndongo. Regardless it didn't have to be, or shouldn't have had to be, an either or. We had basically no bigs and Claude has obvious flaws that will likely mean he can't be out there that long, so there was still plenty of playing time for both Ndongo and Moore.

Claude has been okay, but I'm skeptical he'll be as productive as Franklin was the back half of the year. Ndongo looks like he has high potential. But we've also brought in Dowuona, Gapare, Souare, George, and Forrest maybe joining later. We had some good additions, but by no means was this a situation where none of the players who left were better than what we replaced them with. They transfers out weren't world beaters, but it's silly to me to see the "needs time to gel" argument when the team inherited already had a ton of experience together, and the new staff chose to to overhaul the roster despite that, and the tradeoff wasn't even an obvious upgraded roster despite what people pretended. At best we have more potential for a year or two down the line if it develops , but that is reliant on both the new players developing as well as them staying long enough to do that.

But how long is enough time to gel? My guess is that it will be right up until the point we starting hearing about CDS needing time to get his players in.
 

78pike

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
899
Jalon Moore would not have been a 100% upgrade over Gapare and Sacko. Did you watch him play the last couple of years? He had potential, but we have been saying that about him for the past couple of years. Smith wasn't asked to leave by Stoudemire. Smith left on his own. Not sure why you think Claude was supposed to be as productive as Franklin. He was a beast and got a shot at the NBA. Not fair to think Claude would be equal to him. I'm not sure how long it takes for a team to gel. But I do know it takes more than 4 games. If you are ready to give up on the team that's fine. What I tried to say in my post was that it isn't fair to judge the team on 4 games especially since we have yet to play with all the pieces. We have had 3-4 guys out or playing injured since the first game. And the team that "had experience together" was just 4 players and one of them hasn't played a minute yet. And they are playing a new offensive system so not sure how much their experience together playing a different system means anything.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,585
Moore is averaging 9 and 4 for Oklahoma in 21 minutes while Gapare and Sacko are a combined 2.2 and 6.5 in nearly about 27.5 mpg. Gapare was downright bad for a low A10 team last year. This year Moore would absolutely be better than both of them.

And yeah, Smith just willing decided to sit out a year to transfer on his own. Just a coincidence that the new staff brought in a new PG of their own who they have kept in the starting lineup despite downright bad play. Yup he totally left all on his own.

I brought up Franklin because you said he was a definite upgrade over what we lost last year and he is here in a very similar situation as Franklin was last year. He was probably an upgrade over the bigs we had that transferred out, but we'll need to see how he does against conference opponents before we get to that, because against Cinci he had 2 and 2 in just 11 minutes.

I'm not giving up on the team, but the coaching staff shouldn't be getting a free pass because they chose to have a high amount of roster turnover, especially when they compound the issue by having two starters come off the bench in favor of new players who are predictably not playing well. Even more so when that type of situation isn't as far away from the norm due to the portal. Lots of teams have lots of new faces.
 

78pike

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
899
I'm not sure why you randomly picked Gapare and Sacko to compare to Moore as it is not an apples to apples comparison. First of all Moore starts at Oklahoma while both Gapare and Sacko are backups - Gapare only started because Ndongo was hurt. Plus Gapare plays center and Moore plays forward. The better comparison would be Moore to Claude as they both start at the same position. If we do that we see that Claude averages 10 points and 7 rebounds per game and plays less minutes. Comparing Claude's play to what we saw from Moore last year I would have chosen Claude as well.

Regarding Smith, yes he decided to leave and yes CDS brought in another PG but so what. Our other returning players stayed even though we added transfers and recruits to their positions. I'm not sure if Smith left because he didn't want to compete for playing time or because he didn't think he could beat out the other point guards for that playing time or because he didn't like the academics at Tech but the reason is irrelevant. He left on his own and wasn't asked to leave which was the original point you tried to make. You can guess that he was asked to leave but unless you have some inside info to the conversations between Smith and CDS that's all it is....a guess.

Finally, regarding Franklin, he had no more years of eligibility so I still don't know why you brought him up. I said the people we brought in were an upgrade to the post players that would have been returning had they stayed. It would be foolish to think I was saying the players we brought in would be an upgrade over Franklin as he was a beast who any team would want.

Finally, I never said I was giving the coaches a free pass. I was just saying it was ridiculous to act like "the sky is falling" after just 4 games. Sure if we continue to look like we did against Cincinnati in January and February then I will agree with the posters above that think CDS is in over his head and we don't have any talent to compete. I'm just not ready to say that after just 4 games.
 

stinger78

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,929
Are you guys trying to make yourselves miserable? This year's MBB team is a total WIP. Watch the early games and look for who needs to be on the floor and with whom. The games before Christmas are just seeing what all's under the hood this season. My recommendation: Chill and see what happens.
 

GT33

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,275
What’s worse, cold and frustrated or cold and patient?
We've transitioned from malaise to apathy. Things can change much more quickly with basketball than football, but damn Stoudamire needs to get out the AED paddles and jumpstart our program quickly otherwise he's going to lose the few of us that still care.
 

Techwood Relict

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,506
We've transitioned from malaise to apathy. Things can change much more quickly with basketball than football, but damn Stoudamire needs to get out the AED paddles and jumpstart our program quickly otherwise he's going to lose the few of us that still care.
I'll be here as long as I don't need the paddles, but winning is absolutely better than losing. I've tried both. Win.

Scream Losing It GIF by AIDES
 

Root4GT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,352
From last year's team we were set to lose one player to running out of eligibility, Franklin. We do return "only" 4 players. They were 4 of our top 5 and are good for something like 6th highest returning production in conference. Still plenty to build around. It's also not a coincidence that all the ones who stayed were the top players. The new staff obviously came in and decided to tell players to look elsewhere, including players who would no doubt have been of use to us this year.

It is entirely reasonable to expect us to build on where we were to end last year. But we've looked like we completely regressed.
Who did we lose that would have helped? Moore was ok but not a “good” player. The rest all transferred down a level for a reason.

And yes GT was a bad basketball team last year.
 

Connell62

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
3,113
He is giving his point guards an opportunity to shine. So far they haven't been up to the task.

It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that Stoudamire prefers a guard-intensive approach anymore than it was no surprise Cremins did. I don't think we have anyone with the ball handling skills to succeed that way and will have to take a different approach.

Exactly.. I hate calling out any players, but Amare hasn't been playing well. If I recall, he was invited to USA Basketball U19 camp, and he was billed as a top transfer.

From my vantage point, he has struggled as a scorer and facilitator. On top of that, Kyle has really cooled off after a fast start against softer competition.

When you consider the production of our lead guards, and how Miles Kelly has played the past few games, its clear why we have struggled.

In short, we need our guards to player better!
 

Connell62

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
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3,113
Not sure how much colder you want our fanbase to get. It's been pretty frosty for a good long time.
Agreed...and I know you aren't one of them, but we're four games into a new coaches first year and this thread is filled with people questioning the hire?

Honestly, it is kinda laughable but par for the course with the GT fan base. CDS has more buzz around program than anyone in quite some time....

Including the day, month, year after we won the ACC. That's coming from someone that loved Josh and was a huge supporter until the day he was fired.

Give Damon time and let him figure it out.
 
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