Weekend 2 - Stony Brook

[senoiajacket]

"l. From the set position, if the entire free foot or any part of the stride leg breaks the plane of the back edge of the pitcher’s rubber and the pitcher does not throw or feint a motion to second base or pitch to home plate (see 9-1-b-3);"

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His toe points back in his motion and is definitely breaking the plane of the back edge of the rubber. I guess by definition it has to be the whole free foot though. Whether or not part of the leg breaks the plane is the question I guess. It's really close in that case. The angle of the drive leg and where the knee at is very questionable. I was always taught that you need to go straight up and step towards third on that play. He's definitely shifting weight and seemingly breaking the plane with that knee maybe even. I think it's a balk (it may even break one of the other rules, but I already closed the tab), BUT it's a good move because it's not super obvious. Much like how lefties typically actually balk on most of their throws to first.

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It’s not clear (from that view) if his front foot breaks the plane and the third base ump is looking directly at him). To me this issue is more if he stepped directly towards the base, which is another requirement). If he did it was borderline. What can be controlled is where Lackey was looking. Definitely doesn’t have his eyes on the pitcher at that point. I also didn’t see Ramsey complain to 3B umpire after the play and he had a direct view of it too.

 

[DecaturJacket]

It’s not clear (from that view) if his front foot breaks the plane and the third base ump is looking directly at him). To me this issue is more if he stepped directly towards the base, which is another requirement). If he did it was borderline. What can be controlled is where Lackey was looking. Definitely doesn’t have his eyes on the pitcher at that point. I also didn’t see Ramsey complain to 3B umpire after the play and he had a direct view of it too.

I think it's the second picture that shows it being a balk. The way his leg is angled and where his foot is, I don't see a way that part of his leg is not breaking the plane. Also, his initial motion following that is towards the plate. Stepping towards the base is rarely, if ever gonna be called. I was always taught that there's a 45 degree limit, but that's not actually written anywhere.

I think Lackey is looking at him in the first pic, thinks he's committed to the plate, then looks towards the plate. I mean that's kinda what you're taught to do, but yeah I mean I don't know how you don't have enough of an eye on the pitcher to see it and break back even if you get caught. He wasn't even far off the bag. It's not like he'd already gotten his secondary lead.

There's no point in complaining on that play. The 3b ump is the only one with a view and he's the one who didn't make a call. I'd be willing to bet it was discussed later in the game. He just didn't make an ordeal of it.

All in all, it was a well timed play and umpires don't want to call balks unless it's overly obvious. Fortunately it didn't hurt us in the long run.

 

[GT33]

I think it's the second picture that shows it being a balk. The way his leg is angled and where his foot is, I don't see a way that part of his leg is not breaking the plane. Also, his initial motion following that is towards the plate. Stepping towards the base is rarely, if ever gonna be called. I was always taught that there's a 45 degree limit, but that's not actually written anywhere.

I think Lackey is looking at him in the first pic, thinks he's committed to the plate, then looks towards the plate. I mean that's kinda what you're taught to do, but yeah I mean I don't know how you don't have enough of an eye on the pitcher to see it and break back even if you get caught. He wasn't even far off the bag. It's not like he'd already gotten his secondary lead.

There's no point in complaining on that play. The 3b ump is the only one with a view and he's the one who didn't make a call. I'd be willing to bet it was discussed later in the game. He just didn't make an ordeal of it.

All in all, it was a well timed play and umpires don't want to call balks unless it's overly obvious. Fortunately it didn't hurt us in the long run.

The problem with being an ump is you don't get to say "I missed it, can we just have a review?" or "Can I look at the replay because I'm not sure?" The ump just blew it, but frankly there was way more drama at home plate. That ump was clueless.

 

[DecaturJacket]

The problem with being an ump is you don't get to say "I missed it, can we just have a review?" or "Can I look at the replay because I'm not sure?" The ump just blew it, but frankly there was way more drama at home plate. That ump was clueless.

Yeah, that's a tough one. Umpire has to go with his initial judgement. Fortunately for him and unfortunately for us it's not reviewable. Even though I think based on the replay even they would've thought it was a balk, I don't think they'd would've overturned it even if it was reviewable just because of the angle of the camera.

 

[orientalnc]

The problem with being an ump is you don't get to say "I missed it, can we just have a review?" or "Can I look at the replay because I'm not sure?" The ump just blew it, but frankly there was way more drama at home plate. That ump was clueless.

I think he was terribly inconsistent in his ball/strike calls. The strike zone seemed to poorly labeled for him. I think 80-90% of his calls were perfect, but missing 10% is confusing to batters and pitchers.

 

[Mandingo Finkelstein]

Yeah, that's a tough one. Umpire has to go with his initial judgement. Fortunately for him and unfortunately for us it's not reviewable. Even though I think based on the replay even they would've thought it was a balk, I don't think they'd would've overturned it even if it was reviewable just because of the angle of the camera.

I immediately called it a balk in the chat last night, still think it was a missed call, and your photos prove it even more for me.

Having said that, and I'm not excusing the 3B ump for missing it please don't get me wrong here, but I bet I can count on my hand the number of legit pick off attempts at 3B I've seen in the many thousands of college, high school and MLB games over the last 50+ years. I'm talking legit attempts. Not the step off and fake over to 3B by the pitcher type of stuff. In other words, and again no excuses for missing it, but I bet it completely caught the 3B ump off guard. He was likely as surprised as everyone in the stadium or us watching online.

I get the frustration by fans about our base running miscues so far and it is warranted. Having said that, I bet we don't get picked off at 3B again this season...and, those who have made mistakes will likely learn from them and get them out of their system this first week of the season while we are still winning big against inferior opposition.

 

[FredJacket]

Burress leading off for 1st time this season (right?)

Also... who knows the DH rule(s). If Lackey were to need to be removed from game (injury or ejection), I am pretty sure you lose the DH if Rogers is the new catcher. IOW... from that point on... pitcher would be in the batting order (in Lackey's spot). Do I have that correct?

 

[DecaturJacket]

I immediately called it a balk in the chat last night, still think it was a missed call, and your photos prove it even more for me.

Having said that, and I'm not excusing the 3B ump for missing it please don't get me wrong here, but I bet I can count on my hand the number of legit pick off attempts at 3B I've seen in the many thousands of college, high school and MLB games over the last 50+ years. I'm talking legit attempts. Not the step off and fake over to 3B by the pitcher type of stuff. In other words, and again no excuses for missing it, but I bet it completely caught the 3B ump off guard. He was likely as surprised as everyone in the stadium or us watching online.

I get the frustration by fans about our base running miscues so far and it is warranted. Having said that, I bet we don't get picked off at 3B again this season...and, those who have made mistakes will likely learn from them and get them out of their system this first week of the season while we are still winning big against inferior opposition.

Yeah, like I said before, pretty much every lefty pick to first (not counting "show me" moves) is a balk. The goal as a lefty is to balk and not get caught. That's how most It just doesn't come up as much with righties because you're rarely gonna pick to third.

Burress leading off for 1st time this season (right?)

Also... who knows the DH rule(s). If Lackey were to need to be removed from game (injury or ejection), I am pretty sure you lose the DH if Rogers is the new catcher. IOW... from that point on... pitcher would be in the batting order (in Lackey's spot). Do I have that correct?

View attachment 20940

I think you're right, but they'd bring in Stephenson or Coupet to catch so it's a moot point.

 

[Mandingo Finkelstein]

Burress leading off for 1st time this season (right?)

Also... who knows the DH rule(s). If Lackey were to need to be removed from game (injury or ejection), I am pretty sure you lose the DH if Rogers is the new catcher. IOW... from that point on... pitcher would be in the batting order (in Lackey's spot). Do I have that correct?

View attachment 20940

I like this lineup. Thanks for posting. Not directed at you, but I completely disagree with folks saying Drew is trying too hard, swinging too hard (for the fences), and is in a "slump". For starters, when has DB "not" had a swing with incredible intensity? His swing and approach hasn't changed a bit. He's always violent with his swing. Nothing new. As far as a "slump" goes, if he had started out like Baker and then went on a 6-game barely-above-300-at-the-plate WEEK then nobody would be using the word "slump". It's 6 games for crying out loud. And it isn't like he's gone O'fer. My goodness. Rant over. Sorry.

 

[FredJacket]

Yeah, like I said before, pretty much every lefty pick to first (not counting "show me" moves) is a balk. The goal as a lefty is to balk and not get caught. That's how most It just doesn't come up as much with righties because you're rarely gonna pick to third.


I think you're right, but they'd bring in Stephenson or Coupet to catch so it's a moot point.

Yep.. Thanks, DJ. Just wanted to make sure I had the rule right.

 

[FredJacket]

I like this lineup. Thanks for posting. Not directed at you, but I completely disagree with folks saying Drew is trying too hard, swinging too hard (for the fences), and is in a "slump". For starters, when has DB "not" had a swing with incredible intensity? His swing and approach hasn't changed a bit. He's always violent with his swing. Nothing new. As far as a "slump" goes, if he had started out like Baker and then went on a 6-game barely-above-300-at-the-plate WEEK then nobody would be using the word "slump". It's 6 games for crying out loud. And it isn't like he's gone O'fer. My goodness. Rant over. Sorry.

Agree.... if the rest of the team wasn't so white hot, offensively; and DB was not exposing himself with the baserunning stuff... his performance at the plate wouldn't be a thing at all.

ETA... I also don't think anyone is suggesting anything different be done with him from a lineup makeup perspective.

 

[DecaturJacket]

I like this lineup. Thanks for posting. Not directed at you, but I completely disagree with folks saying Drew is trying too hard, swinging too hard (for the fences), and is in a "slump". For starters, when has DB "not" had a swing with incredible intensity? His swing and approach hasn't changed a bit. He's always violent with his swing. Nothing new. As far as a "slump" goes, if he had started out like Baker and then went on a 6-game barely-above-300-at-the-plate WEEK then nobody would be using the word "slump". It's 6 games for crying out loud. And it isn't like he's gone O'fer. My goodness. Rant over. Sorry.

I don't think anybody has used the word slump. Slow start is what most have said I think. That's partially due to expectations, but also due to a bunch of "empty" hits. He's got 3 XBH, but tied for the least RBI in the lineup. Whenever he's come up in a "spot" he's come up empty.

Agree that he has always had a violent swing, BUT even last year you can see when his swing gets a little wonky. It's a lot easier to lose your mechanics when you start out wonky like he does. I don't think he's swinging on his normal plane when he goes through these stretches. Also, if you watched the ANF episode last night he talked about his struggles with his hands being too quick. I think that's part of it right now too. His hands are out in front and he's having to adjust and isn't hitting anything square. Like I said before, I just don't think he's got his timing down yet. Not at all worried about it though.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

I like this lineup. Thanks for posting. Not directed at you, but I completely disagree with folks saying Drew is trying too hard, swinging too hard (for the fences), and is in a "slump". For starters, when has DB "not" had a swing with incredible intensity? His swing and approach hasn't changed a bit. He's always violent with his swing. Nothing new. As far as a "slump" goes, if he had started out like Baker and then went on a 6-game barely-above-300-at-the-plate WEEK then nobody would be using the word "slump". It's 6 games for crying out loud. And it isn't like he's gone O'fer. My goodness. Rant over. Sorry.

Sure, DB has the lowest average in the lineup. Don't call it a slump, call it a slow start.

 

[Mandingo Finkelstein]

Joining the chat shortly, but my main focus today other than the obvious looking for a W (don't care what the score is, just win babyyyyy) is how does Patel come out in that #2 starting role. He was a bit shaky - not terrible by any means, but certainly not the performance he was hoping for - in his first game, but it is just the first game. He then got going and gave us 5 innings. Not expecting him to be "dominant" especially this early in the season, but hoping he comes out and shows command of the zone and his pitches of course.

I don't think anybody has used the word slump. Slow start is what most have said I think. That's partially due to expectations, but also due to a bunch of "empty" hits. He's got 3 XBH, but tied for the least RBI in the lineup. Whenever he's come up in a "spot" he's come up empty.

Agree that he has always had a violent swing, BUT even last year you can see when his swing gets a little wonky. It's a lot easier to lose your mechanics when you start out wonky like he does. I don't think he's swinging on his normal plane when he goes through these stretches. Also, if you watched the ANF episode last night he talked about his struggles with his hands being too quick. I think that's part of it right now too. His hands are out in front and he's having to adjust and isn't hitting anything square.

I've read the use of the word "slump" multiple times in these threads and in the chat room, but whatever. Maybe my definition of "slump" is different than others and if so, c'est la vie.

 

[FredJacket]

I don't think anybody has used the word slump. Slow start is what most have said I think. That's partially due to expectations, but also due to a bunch of "empty" hits. He's got 3 XBH, but tied for the least RBI in the lineup. Whenever he's come up in a "spot" he's come up empty.

Agree that he has always had a violent swing, BUT even last year you can see when his swing gets a little wonky. It's a lot easier to lose your mechanics when you start out wonky like he does. I don't think he's swinging on his normal plane when he goes through these stretches. Also, if you watched the ANF episode last night he talked about his struggles with his hands being too quick. I think that's part of it right now too. His hands are out in front and he's having to adjust and isn't hitting anything square. Like I said before, I just don't think he's got his timing down yet. Not at all worried about it though.

I watched the ANF thing last night .... and within 5 mins I had diagnosed what DB's issue might be. ... if you know what I mean.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

Joining the chat shortly, but my main focus today other than the obvious looking for a W (don't care what the score is, just win babyyyyy) is how does Patel come out in that #2 starting role. He was a bit shaky - not terrible by any means, but certainly not the performance he was hoping for - in his first game, but it is just the first game. He then got going and gave us 5 innings. Not expecting him to be "dominant" especially this early in the season, but hoping he comes out and shows command of the zone and his pitches of course.


I've read the use of the word "slump" multiple times in these threads and in the chat room, but whatever. Maybe my definition of "slump" is different than others and if so, c'est la vie.

I've used the word slump in chat, mostly tic. In the end it makes little difference except for awards for DB. We just need to win and have more than enough firepower even if DB has another sophomore type year.

 

[DecaturJacket]

Joining the chat shortly, but my main focus today other than the obvious looking for a W (don't care what the score is, just win babyyyyy) is how does Patel come out in that #2 starting role. He was a bit shaky - not terrible by any means, but certainly not the performance he was hoping for - in his first game, but it is just the first game. He then got going and gave us 5 innings. Not expecting him to be "dominant" especially this early in the season, but hoping he comes out and shows command of the zone and his pitches of course.

I'm with you. I want to see him succeed, but, despite me calling for him to be in the starting role last season, wonder if he wouldn't be better in that long relief in clutch situation role like last season. I just think that we have so much potential at starter this season. That being said, if he can show dominance in that starter role you let him do it.

I've read the use of the word "slump" multiple times in these threads and in the chat room, but whatever. Maybe my definition of "slump" is different than others and if so, c'est la vie.

Fair. I don't recall it and don't think I've said it (and if I have def wasn't being serious), but I'm 40 now, so memory is starting to go. Lol. I still think it's fair to call it a slow start for him. .308 is great, but like I said above, it's been a relatively empty .308. The bad base running and error on the throw yesterday don't help.

 

[Vespidie]

Don't forget that we're only 6 games into the season. Lots of room to get going.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

Hell of a win. Loved the challenge and the guys rising to the challenge.

 

[awbuzz]