Univ System of GA putting GA schools (and GT) at disadvantage

[RamblinRed]

This article is a little older (saw a newer one by a school counselor in GA) but explains what is happening well.

Many places waive SAT and ACT requirements for 2021. Not Georgia.

The University System of Georgia is insisting its campuses continue to require ACT/SAT scores in the coming admissions cycle. With its stance, USG is standing in a rapidly emptying room. Each day, more campuses declare it’s not fair to ask applicants to submit standardized scores amid a pandemic.

www.ajc.com

Very few higher education systems are requiring SAT/ACT scores as part of admission for 2021, but GA is one of them. FL and AL seem to be the 2 other states that are requiring them based on the FairTest site.

This is concerning to both school counselors in GA and admissions staff at state universities (especially GT and UGA). By requiring students to have a standardized test score the USG is putting GA colleges at a disadvantage in terms of getting kids to come from the class of 2021. If only 1 school that you are interested in is requiring you to sit for a test there is a good chance you will decide not to take the test right now - especially given the environment in the country and just knock that school off the list.

GT admissions guy in this article mentions that 9 of the top 10 schools GT competes against for students are not requiring tests this year. Another article I saw said GT was the highest ranked school in the US News and World Report rankings to require a test score this year. The highest ranked out of state school was Univ of FL. No other ACC school is requiring a test score except FSU.

Admissions personnel are expecting lower application numbers and lower quality of applicants unless the USG changes course.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

This article is a little older (saw a newer one by a school counselor in GA) but explains what is happening well.

Many places waive SAT and ACT requirements for 2021. Not Georgia.

The University System of Georgia is insisting its campuses continue to require ACT/SAT scores in the coming admissions cycle. With its stance, USG is standing in a rapidly emptying room. Each day, more campuses declare it’s not fair to ask applicants to submit standardized scores amid a pandemic.

www.ajc.com

Very few higher education systems are requiring SAT/ACT scores as part of admission for 2021, but GA is one of them. FL and AL seem to be the 2 other states that are requiring them based on the FairTest site.

This is concerning to both school counselors in GA and admissions staff at state universities (especially GT and UGA). By requiring students to have a standardized test score the USG is putting GA colleges at a disadvantage in terms of getting kids to come from the class of 2021. If only 1 school that you are interested in is requiring you to sit for a test there is a good chance you will decide not to take the test right now - especially given the environment in the country and just knock that school off the list.

GT admissions guy in this article mentions that 9 of the top 10 schools GT competes against for students are not requiring tests this year. Another article I saw said GT was the highest ranked school in the US News and World Report rankings to require a test score this year. The highest ranked out of state school was Univ of FL. No other ACC school is requiring a test score except FSU.

Admissions personnel are expecting lower application numbers and lower quality of applicants unless the USG changes course.

How do you get anything but higher quality if you require certain scores? Seems the risk is much higher of a lower quality student if you drop the test score requirement. We could fill an entire second freshman class each year of 1400+ SAT applicants who get denied.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Maybe it will help my daughter get in from Illinois. She got a 32 on the ACT, I think.

 

[forensicbuzz]

How do you get anything but higher quality if you require certain scores? Seems the risk is much higher of a lower quality student if you drop the test score requirement. We could fill an entire second freshman class each year of 1400+ SAT applicants who get denied.

That's assuming the ACT/SAT scores are independent of grades and other metrics used to evaluate prospective incoming students. Prior to the pandemic, there was a strong movement to not require standardized testing for college entrance. Many of the top universities in the US have not required standardized testing for years now.

 

[forensicbuzz]

How do you get anything but higher quality if you require certain scores? Seems the risk is much higher of a lower quality student if you drop the test score requirement. We could fill an entire second freshman class each year of 1400+ SAT applicants who get denied.

To go further, let's look at tests like the LSAT. It's the primary means for determining whether someone gets into law school. The test is designed to see how many correct answers one can get in an abbreviated time. It's designed to identify quick thinkers. However, 95% of all lawyers don't need to be quick thinkers, they need to be deep thinkers and plodders. They need to be people who can read something and thoroughly understand the content. Those types of people tend to do poorly on the LSAT. Quick thinkers are generally successful litigators, but the vast majority of attorneys are not litigators. So, the LSAT doesn't identify the best, most promising attorneys, it helps to identify those with the propensity to become the best litigators. Same with the ACT/SAT exams. They don't identify the best students, per se, they identify those that are apt to be successful in timed tests. Hence, the movement away from standardized tests.

 

[LibertyTurns]

@forensicbuzz There’s a real study I posted in here somewhere a while back. SAT/ACT are good indicators of success at elite universities & in particular in predicting the success of minorities. At average colleges, GPA and grades are a much better indicator and for minorities GPA/grades are substantially better. Those in the bottom half the SAT/ACT is basically wothless. It really depends on what type of school and program you’re referring to. What works for GT does not work at all for the cesspool or Kennesaw St.

 

[wesgt123]

I get tired of hearing how uga does things to put Tech at a disadvantage

let’s start beating them consecutively in football and this talk will go away.

 

[RonJohn]

I thought the concern wasn't about the tests, but about availability to take the tests. If a junior was planning to take the test in the spring of this year, all were cancelled from around March. I have read elsewhere that many normal sites are not available to be used. There are fewer locations, so fewer available slots. I believe I read about one kid for whom the nearest testing location was about 100 miles away. That article says that the average kid takes entrance exams six times. From what I have read, the concern is that there are potentially not enough spots for all of the high school kids to take the test even once.

 

[armeck]

I get tired of hearing how uga does things to put Tech at a disadvantage

let’s start beating them consecutively in football and this talk will go away.

It's the USG not UGA.

 

[GoldZ]

I get tired of hearing how uga does things to put Tech at a disadvantage

let’s start beating them consecutively in football and this talk will go away.

uga's lower scores and gpa's are the egg, and them beating us is the chicken. No egg, no chicken (assuming one believes the egg was first!) However there is armeck's post above.

 

[GoldZ]

To go further, let's look at tests like the LSAT. It's the primary means for determining whether someone gets into law school. The test is designed to see how many correct answers one can get in an abbreviated time. It's designed to identify quick thinkers. However, 95% of all lawyers don't need to be quick thinkers, they need to be deep thinkers and plodders. They need to be people who can read something and thoroughly understand the content. Those types of people tend to do poorly on the LSAT. Quick thinkers are generally successful litigators, but the vast majority of attorneys are not litigators. So, the LSAT doesn't identify the best, most promising attorneys, it helps to identify those with the propensity to become the best litigators. Same with the ACT/SAT exams. They don't identify the best students, per se, they identify those that are apt to be successful in timed tests. Hence, the movement away from standardized tests.

Most of my exams at Tech were timed, but I get your point. Prob is that grades at one HS don't translate into grades at another HS, plus I believe I saw a long time ago, where SAT scores didn't change dramatically, even without time constraints.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Most of my exams at Tech were timed, but I get your point. Prob is that grades at one HS don't translate into grades at another HS, plus I believe I saw a long time ago, where SAT scores didn't change dramatically, even without time constraints.

I agree that there is no great way to determine whether a HS student will be successful at any given university. I'm all for having minimum requirements and then making it a lottery. Those that can hack it make it, those than don't end up going elsewhere. While we're at it, let's dramatically lower the cost of higher education. It needs to cost something because the student needs to have skin in the game, but with 2 in college right now and a 3rd going next year, it's impossible to pay for college. You just can't put that much money away and have any semblance of a life.

 

[wrmathis]

I agree that there is no great way to determine whether a HS student will be successful at any given university. I'm all for having minimum requirements and then making it a lottery. Those that can hack it make it, those than don't end up going elsewhere. While we're at it, let's dramatically lower the cost of higher education. It needs to cost something because the student needs to have skin in the game, but with 2 in college right now and a 3rd going next year, it's impossible to pay for college. You just can't put that much money away and have any semblance of a life.

that's why i signed over my G.I. Bill to my daughter. to hopefully offset some of the cost when she is old enough to go to school

 

[jacketup]

Having gone through college admissions twice in the last 4 years with my kids, in my opinion, GT Admissions is on par with GTAA marketing. One of my sons graduated from the top public HS in the US according to US News. GT only admitted two kids from the graduating class of his school. Exactly what criteria they use is hard to understand.

One bone I have to pick is that there is no credit for being a legacy. That cost them a significant donation from me. I know other alums who have withheld donations because of that policy. You won't see that at Ivy League schools.

They seem to be chasing a US News ranking, which did them no good this year, as they dropped from 28 to 35. Those rankings are totally illogical when you break them down, so why chase them?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Having gone through college admissions twice in the last 4 years with my kids, in my opinion, GT Admissions is on par with GTAA marketing. One of my sons graduated from the top public HS in the US according to US News. GT only admitted two kids from the graduating class of his school. Exactly what criteria they use is hard to understand.

One bone I have to pick is that there is no credit for being a legacy. That cost them a significant donation from me. I know other alums who have withheld donations because of that policy. You won't see that at Ivy League schools.

They seem to be chasing a US News ranking, which did them no good this year, as they dropped from 28 to 35. Those rankings are totally illogical when you break them down, so why chase them?

If you have a legacy with average qualifications, to me it’s a no-brained you let THEM in first. They will know first hand the grind of the school from their parents. They will have that ingrained loyalty in the family. I can’t for the life of me understand why they almost seem to de prioritize legacies. Like you say maybe they’re doing what the SEC does in football recruiting - chase star rankings instead of looking at the film and character.

 

[forensicbuzz]

If you have a legacy with average qualifications, to me it’s a no-brained you let THEM in first. They will know first hand the grind of the school from their parents. They will have that ingrained loyalty in the family. I can’t for the life of me understand why they almost seem to de prioritize legacies. Like you say maybe they’re doing what the SEC does in football recruiting - chase star rankings instead of looking at the film and character.

Legacies are guaranteed a conduit to Tech. If they aren't admitted as freshmen, they're guaranteed a spot with a 3.2 gpa in 30 semester hours in specified courses from another university (including a community college). Guaranteed admission, regardless.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Legacies are guaranteed a conduit to Tech. If they aren't admitted as freshmen, they're guaranteed a spot with a 3.2 gpa in 30 semester hours in specified courses from another university (including a community college). Guaranteed admission, regardless.

Yea, but that's not the same. Imagine going to another college for a year first before you transfer. It is definitely better than nothing. But it isn't close to the same thing.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Yea, but that's not the same. Imagine going to another college for a year first before you transfer. It is definitely better than nothing. But it isn't close to the same thing.

Take what you can get. If you don't have what it takes (grades/scores) to get in, GT offers a unique opportunity for Legacies to actually get in. It's not where you start college, it's where you finish. I think that's fantastic.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Take what you can get. If you don't have what it takes (grades/scores) to get in, GT offers a unique opportunity for Legacies to actually get in. It's not where you start college, it's where you finish. I think that's fantastic.

But that’s the problem - there are legacy kids with above Tech-average SATs and grades who don’t get in.

 

[Jim Prather]

Take what you can get. If you don't have what it takes (grades/scores) to get in, GT offers a unique opportunity for Legacies to actually get in. It's not where you start college, it's where you finish. I think that's fantastic.

But that’s the problem - there are legacy kids with above Tech-average SATs and grades who don’t get in.

At most schools, if you have two students with roughly the same qualifications, but one is a legacy and the other is not, the school awards alumni loyalty by accepting the legacy. Tech is the opposite. At Tech, if you have two students with roughly the same qualifications, but one is a legacy and the other is not, the school accepts the non-legacy student. They try to mollify the alumni by saying "Well, we will take that student after a year at another college" It's not really the same, though and the admissions officers know it. The percentage of students who are in good standing at their existing university and choose to transfer is very low, so the admissions office has succeeded in breaking family legacies and traditions while appearing to save face.
I guess you can chalk this up to another way Tech gives the Shaft to it's students.