Throwing on First Down

[Randy Carson]

I haven't had enough confidence in Tech's passing game the past few years to agree to passing on first down, If the pass is complete, great. But if not, you're looking at 2 & 10 with only two plays to make the first down. I don't like our chances. I'd rather see us pick up three four or five yards with a running play, and then take a shot on second and short.

What do you think?

 

[iceeater1969]

A pass that must be completed is very very short.
Its kind of like a inside hand off versus a pitch.

I

 

[lv20gt]

I mean, if you can reliably get 4-5 yards on first down every time you run the ball regardless of how good your passing game is.

 

[kittysniper101]

I could say the same thing about our running game last year. I don't have a ton of confidence to get consistent yardage running the ball up the middle on first down so why don't we just throw it instead. The reality is you can't be entirely predictable in whatever you do. Explosiveness is just as strong an indicator of success in CFB as efficiency really and we're not built too much for efficiency at the moment.

A pass that must be completed is very very short.
Its kind of like a inside hand off versus a pitch.

I

Why would you restrict yourself to only a small portion of the field? Teams will capitalize on those tendencies and condense the field on you until you prove you can beat them over the top. How about not having a tendency that strong and keep the field open by exploiting whatever space is available?

 

[CEB]

Embrace it brother! You’ve been conditioned to expect a positive play on every down for the offense to move. Not the case anymore. We’re embracing the pass happy mantra of everyone else now. We only need 1 or 2 positive plays per series to keep the ball moving. We’re also going to run more plays per game.
If an option offense had positive yards only 65-75% of the time, it would be a disaster. If our QB is completing 65-75% of his passes, the offense is probably pretty decent.
Caveat... I have no idea what the new OC will bring or if we’ll lean more on the run game or not.

 

[GTjunkie]

2nd and 10 is better than 2nd and 13, which seems to happen a lot.

 

[Gtswifty81]

Eventually we will have to throw with our current offense on first down so that we aren’t predictable or we aren’t going to always pick up positive yards. The offense needs to get to the point where picking up 10 yards with 2 downs isn’t an overwhelming task. With that said positive plays on first down sure does make it easier to extend drives. In Collins tenure our limited offensive success seems to come from big plays and quick drives.

 

[iceeater1969]

2nd and 10 is better than 2nd and 13, which seems to happen a lot.

Yes, the old inside rpo handoff often fired a blank - u take it, no u take, oh crxx

 

[TromboneJacket]

I say that whether you run or pass should be determined more by the strengths of the offense and weaknesses of the defense than the fact that it’s 1st and 10. CPJ would call a pass on the first offensive play of the game at times, so there’s no reason Chip Long shouldn’t do the same. But if we can run effectively against an opponent, we should continue to do so until the opponent stops us. And once they’re committed to stopping the run, that’s when you hit ‘em with a play action pass. That’s where Patenaude went wrong in the first game last season. He started messing around when the game was still in question and there was no need to change it up yet.

 

[Skeptic]

I haven't had enough confidence in Tech's passing game the past few years to agree to passing on first down, If the pass is complete, great. But if not, you're looking at 2 & 10 with only two plays to make the first down. I don't like our chances. I'd rather see us pick up three four or five yards with a running play, and then take a shot on second and short.

What do you think?

I think if you watched Clemson-Iowa State and saw Clemson with first and 10 inside the 20 and by your formula did the right thing and ran the ball. They got a yard and now it is 2nd and 9. They settled for a FG and basically told the defense to hold 'em. We make too much of an issue about running or passing on early downs, and if you don't have a strong running game, why gamble that this time you will get four yards.

 

[bobongo]

I could say the same thing about our running game last year. I don't have a ton of confidence to get consistent yardage running the ball up the middle on first down so why don't we just throw it instead. The reality is you can't be entirely predictable in whatever you do. Explosiveness is just as strong an indicator of success in CFB as efficiency really and we're not built too much for efficiency at the moment.



Why would you restrict yourself to only a small portion of the field? Teams will capitalize on those tendencies and condense the field on you until you prove you can beat them over the top. How about not having a tendency that strong and keep the field open by exploiting whatever space is available?

Exactly. A good OC knows how to do this. Mix it up and spray the ball all over the place. Keep them guessing.

 

[bobongo]

I mean, if you can reliably get 4-5 yards on first down every time you run the ball regardless of how good your passing game is.

If you could reliably get 4-5 yards on any down, there would never be any need to throw it. But that isn't going to realistically happen with any consistency. They'll just key on your tendency and stop you if you're that predictable.

 

[bke1984]

I haven't had enough confidence in Tech's passing game the past few years to agree to passing on first down, If the pass is complete, great. But if not, you're looking at 2 & 10 with only two plays to make the first down. I don't like our chances. I'd rather see us pick up three four or five yards with a running play, and then take a shot on second and short.

What do you think?

As a general rule yes. But if you always do this it’s predictable. And I actually feel like this was one of the biggest problems with CDP. Our run game hasn’t exactly been all that reliable at picking up 5 yards the way it used to be. If it was maybe this would be ok.

 

[JacketFan137]

successful offenses in college football typically are able to beat you multiple ways. you have to keep teams honest on all aspects of defense. this is why paul was really only succesful with justin thomas and josh nesbitt as they were the most consistent passers in the option. when we didn't have that talent at QB his teams couldn't function against a competent defense.

 

[CEB]

I’d say successful offenses are able to beat you in one way.... block.
If you block your assignments, you’ll be successful. If you miss your assignments (or your assignments beat you), your offense is going to look really bad no matter what you’re trying to do.

 

[Skeptic]

Exactly. A good OC knows how to do this. Mix it up and spray the ball all over the place. Keep them guessing.

Don't know how many watched that Clemson-Iowa State game, but that funky 3-5-3 defense made it impossible for Clemson to throw downfield: three safeties, four corners and LBs covering the middle of the field, and they were all good athletes. The new Clemson OC called about as good a game as you will see: dink and dunk to running backs and turned the passing game into a running game. He put the suspect Clemson QB in position to succeed and even then Clemson barely hung on. We are going to hear about that Iowa St. coach.

 

[takethepoints]

I think if you watched Clemson-Iowa State and saw Clemson with first and 10 inside the 20 and by your formula did the right thing and ran the ball. They got a yard and now it is 2nd and 9. They settled for a FG and basically told the defense to hold 'em.

Bingo. If the D is up to snuff, it probably (depends on the opponent) doesn't matter much what you do on first down. If it isn't, then you have problems whatever you do. One thing, however: teams with a strong running game usually win in games with pure passing teams. ToP does count.

 

[Root4GT]

As most plays are called from the sideline now, the OC looks at the defense, what type player is on the field, how many are in the box, is there a single high safety or is the defense in a 2 deep safety zone. The OC can easily adjust the call based on what he sees. Run the play that has the highest probability of success regardless if it's a pas or run.

You need good communication among the O line and between the QB and all the rest of the players on offense for this to work well. I don't think last year Sims had much authority to communicate with the offense once the play was signaled in. If you watched Pickett, Hartman and Armstrong they did a lot of communicating from play call to the snap. I hope Long improves us in this area.

 

[UgaBlows]

I’d say successful offenses are able to beat you in one way.... block.
If you block your assignments, you’ll be successful. If you miss your assignments (or your assignments beat you), your offense is going to look really bad no matter what you’re trying to do.

This all day long. It Doesn’t matter what the scheme is

 

[JacketFan137]

Bingo. If the D is up to snuff, it probably (depends on the opponent) doesn't matter much what you do on first down. If it isn't, then you have problems whatever you do. One thing, however: teams with a strong running game usually win in games with pure passing teams. ToP does count.

i don’t think this is really true in football today. almost all of the national champions the past decade have been able to air it out. since ohio state won there really hasn’t been a team that was a running team

even looking in the nfl the teams closest to the super bowl last year had probably the four best passing teams in the nfl