The Refs

[BuzzStone]

anyone have a clip of the non safety play? I wasn't able to watch

 

[RonJohn]

the refs announced that he had been pushed into the endzone. that's forward progress and can not be reviewed.

yeah he probably did run back into the endzone on his own but it wasn't ruled that way. can not review forward progress

They should be able to review where he was contacted. They did that in the miami game last year. They are not able to review whether the play was over or not when the refs say forward progress was stopped.

On that play, they didn't show any replay on TV from the side of the goal line. Every replay was at an angle. At an angle, you can't draw a line showing whether the ball is in front of or over the goal line. Therefore you can't get incontrovertible evidence. If they had a pylon cam, it would have shown the exact angle needed to know for sure.

 

[Backstreetbuzz]

I think they were pretty incompetent, but it went both ways. I am just tired of 4 hour games. I really wish college would go to the NFL challenge rules.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I think they were pretty incompetent, but it went both ways. I am just tired of 4 hour games. I really wish college would go to the NFL challenge rules.

Agee 100%. I know for a fact that in high school, the pool is shrinking every year.
It’s hard to find good people, much less good officials. I’ll leave it at that.

 

[Technut1990]

the refs announced that he had been pushed into the endzone. that's forward progress and can not be reviewed.

yeah he probably did run back into the endzone on his own but it wasn't ruled that way. can not review forward progress

not arguing I understand what you are saying but I’d think that would qualify as a scoring play review at least by the guys in the box, if not challenge issue. Oh well we got the strip sack TD anyway

do we still have coaches challenges in general or has that been eliminated

 

[Lexjacket]

There's a reason immediately when the game ends, they hustle the refs into a black SUV with an armed police escort and speed away. sirens blaring...

 

[danny daniel]

I usually am intolerant of unsportsmanlike behavior and want it enforced but the one after the touchdown catch (was it Carter) was a bit over the top. Even the announcers talked about the extenuating circumstances....the kids on both sides have been practicing for a month (+/-) without getting a chance to play. I agreed with their comments and, as said, I am usually "old school" regarding player celebrations.

Penalties after the plays are over with are a discipline problem (coaching issue) that has more serious impacts than the instant penalty. Show boat culture and temper tantrums are not good football. I hope the refs put a stop to all of it and against both teams fairly..

 

[wrmathis]

not arguing I understand what you are saying but I’d think that would qualify as a scoring play review at least by the guys in the box, if not challenge issue. Oh well we got the strip sack TD anyway

do we still have coaches challenges in general or has that been eliminated

It would have if they awarded the safety. Since they didn’t it’s not a scoring play

 

[awbuzz]

Refs more often than not are correct with their calls.
What pisses people off the most is an infraction that they "didn't see". If you don't see it, you can't call it. I got yelled at got a lot in basketball and football because the eyes in the back of my head didn't see something.

 

[katlong]

the refs announced that he had been pushed into the endzone. that's forward progress and can not be reviewed.

yeah he probably did run back into the endzone on his own but it wasn't ruled that way. can not review forward progress

I'm really glad you explained that because I couldn't understand why that wasn't at least reviewed. I don't know all the nuanced rules about what can and can't be reviewed, but they often review a spot placement on 3rd down to see if someone made it to the first down mark, but not forward progress so how does that work - or is it just not reviewable on a kickoff? thanks for help.

 

[katlong]

I haven't watched the replay I recorded yet, but for those of you who were closer to the field or saw it on TV, is there a reason not to review the second Duke TD? We were high up on that end zone on that end, and it sure looked at least questionable from our angle. Might have still been confirmed, but it was noticeable how many plays were NOT reviewed.

 

[augustabuzz]

It would have if they awarded the safety. Since they didn’t it’s not a scoring play

If the runner is ruled short of a touchdown, then that is not a scoring play. And yet, it is reviewed and discovered that the ball did cross the plane.

 

[Gray Fox]

Are there any refs on this board? High school or college? It would be an interesting take to hear their opinions.

I officiate HS football in Georgia. I didn’t (couldn’t) see the game so can’t comment on any of the calls.

I will say after “officiating” from the stands like everyone else, and now on-field as an official, it’s 10x harder from field level. The play unfolds much faster on field and up close in comparison to the stands or in front of your HD big screen with frame by frame replay.

Officials, even at the HS level, are held accountable by their association, supervisors, etc, both by at-game evaluators along with game film that is reviewed/scrutinized extensively. My college official associates tell me they have to take rules and case-play tests every week, are mandated to watch x hours of film in prep for their game, zoom meetings during the week w the crew, 3-4 hour pregame mtg, and prob other prep I’m not aware of. Then attend off-season camps in the spring/summer. They are graded and rated every week which can result in promotions to higher level games or demotions back down to high school. I promise every college official spends plenty of time on his or her craft or they simply wouldn’t be put on the field. All of the officials I know take their mistakes very seriously - and no mistake gets overlooked by the evaluators. No one is officiating any sport for the money I assure you.

And like someone said, the number of officials has been dwindling. Avg age HS ref is near 50 yo, which is not a good sign as you need youth in the system for future officials. Getting blistered by fans/parents/coaches/msg boards doesn’t help recruiting and retaining new officials.

That said I still yell at the refs at my kid’s games. It’s hard not to but am trying to break that habit.

If anyone is interested to officiate, we’re hiring

 

[wrmathis]

If the runner is ruled short of a touchdown, then that is not a scoring play. And yet, it is reviewed and discovered that the ball did cross the plane.

thats the difference in the NFL and NCAA. NCAA all plays are reviewed. NFL, all scoring plays are reviewed. If it isnt ruled a score, the only way to review is by coaches challenge or i think less than 2 mins left in a game then all plays are automatically reviewed. so part of my thinking is that in the back of my mind probably.

 

[augustabuzz]

thats the difference in the NFL and NCAA. NCAA all plays are reviewed. NFL, all scoring plays are reviewed. If it isnt ruled a score, the only way to review is by coaches challenge or i think less than 2 mins left in a game then all plays are automatically reviewed. so part of my thinking is that in the back of my mind probably.

Looks like they lied about all plays being reviewed.

 

[wrmathis]

Looks like they lied about all plays being reviewed.

and they not have reviewed because of refs saying he was forced and talked into the endzone, hence forward progress.

 

[RonJohn]

and they not have reviewed because of refs saying he was forced and talked into the endzone, hence forward progress.

They can review a spot of the ball for when contact is made. The could have reviewed that play to see if he was contacted outside or inside the end zone. I didn't see any camera angle that would have even come close to changing the call.

What they cannot review is a fumble if the officials blow the whistle and say forward progress was stopped.

EDIT: I searched for "ncaa forward progress replay" and found a memo that highlights another area that forward progress can't be reviewed. If a player is held up, then breaks free and gains more yardage. Replay can't decide that he made the additional yardage if an on-field official says that progress was stopped before he broke free. That memo dos have a statement that pertains directly to the question of reviewing to see if the Duke player was in the end-zone when he was contacted:

In replay we can look at the position of the ball in relation to the line to gain when progress is ruled but cannot take off a ruling of forward progress or create one.

 

[okiemon]

It always amazes me that the refs who call our games are the only bad ones, and they’re bad every time.

 

[RhoChi]

the refs announced that he had been pushed into the endzone. that's forward progress and can not be reviewed.

yeah he probably did run back into the endzone on his own but it wasn't ruled that way. can not review forward progress

Forward progress not reviewable?

Then what happened in OT vs miami last year to give us the win. They literally review the runners forward progress??

 

[UpperNorth]

They can review a spot of the ball for when contact is made. The could have reviewed that play to see if he was contacted outside or inside the end zone. I didn't see any camera angle that would have even come close to changing the call.

What they cannot review is a fumble if the officials blow the whistle and say forward progress was stopped.

EDIT: I searched for "ncaa forward progress replay" and found a memo that highlights another area that forward progress can't be reviewed. If a player is held up, then breaks free and gains more yardage. Replay can't decide that he made the additional yardage if an on-field official says that progress was stopped before he broke free. That memo dos have a statement that pertains directly to the question of reviewing to see if the Duke player was in the end-zone when he was contacted:

This was my inclination. I thought Collins should have challenged it. You’re challenging the spot (not the forward progress) which is challenge-able. He may have chosen not to challenge it because of a lack of video angle but prior to Duke’s timeout I’m not sure if you wait to find out if there is another angle. You just do it, it’s low risk, high reward. Also not sure if it can be deduced but it was CLEAR that the runner’s feet were in the Endzone and the ball was in his right arm which was deeper in the endzone than his feet before contact. Sometimes I swear refs deduce things based on common sense and sometimes they claim it has to be indisputable. And sometimes I swear they bring the ‘rules expert’ onto the TV broadcast and he speaks about all of these challenges as if there’s a gray area; they slow everything down and the rules expert comes to a different conclusion than the refs on the field. I guess that Indisputable means something different from one crew/one human to another?

The fact is, It was a safety, 11,000 fans knew it, everybody reading this thread knows it. The refs know it.

It all worked out though. That strip sack, fumble recovery for a TD was one the best individual plays of the season. All Good!