The Late Kick showing GT some love...again.

croberts

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
659
The real question is can we get elite recruits at all. There still isn't much proof that we can. While Collins has improved recruiting, we still aren't really getting many elite level recruits. One hopes that will change once we start winning more and more but its still a bit of a hope more than anything.
There is absolute proof. The portal delivered a 5 star and multiple 4 star transfers and a top 10 ga athlete last cycle and produced 2x 4 star running backs in two years. The last 4 star back (Dwyer) was also recruited by Collins when he was here. I loved Paul but facts are facts.
Let me remind all about Paul’s comments about the top 8 and the importance of those players. He referred to the need to have the 8-10 difference makers on your roster And that was what separated the 2008-2009 teams from the later squads. With redshirting, we are talking about 3-5 elite players a year to equal 15-20 guys on a squad. Collins has already placed two Freshman elite players in our starting offense and 4 star transfer and Gibbs maybe better than all three.
We have an injured DE 5 star that will be starting when healthy. We also have committed 8 top 60 Ga players this cycle. What are you missing?
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,514
Look, you’re obviously free to think and post what you want. You can be on the bandwagon or you can wait until you see irrefutable proof. You can explain why all you want. But the rest of us are also free to respond to your posts as we see fit. I’m not sure what the issue is.
As far as I'm concerned, there's only one: if I don't buy the hype (I don't), then I'm not a loyal Tech fan. There have been several posts like that aimed at my posts here. I was trying to explain why I look at the program the way I do. I want Tech to succeed. I've been a season ticket holder since the '80's. (I might add that this means I've stuck with Tech football through some very bad days indeed.) I don't appreciate being told off for not getting on the bandwagon yet. And I have been; look above.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,359
There is absolute proof. The portal has delivered a 5 star and multiple 4 star transfers and a top 10 ga athlete last cycle and produced 2x 4 star running backs in two years. The last 4 star back (Dwyer) was also recruited by Collins when he was here. I loved Paul but facts are facts.
We landed two Rivals top 250 recruits last year. We have zero this year. We only have one 4 star recruit for 2021 so far and I'm not sure many are in the works. Maybe a good year can change that. I don't think its a stretch to say that we aren't landing much elite talent. We are landing very good talent. Much better than the previous regime, but its a stretch to call it elite.
 

ncjacket79

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
808
As far as I'm concerned, there's only one: if I don't buy the hype (I don't), then I'm not a loyal Tech fan. There have been several posts like that aimed at my posts here. I was trying to explain why I look at the program the way I do. I want Tech to succeed. I've been a season ticket holder since the '80's. (I might add that this means I've stuck with Tech football through some very bad days indeed.) I don't appreciate being told off for not getting on the bandwagon yet. And I have been; look above.
I’m with you. As I said you’re free to think however you think. I also understand why some are reluctant to get too excited but I just think it’s more fun to be positive than wait and see. What I don’t get is why you would be surprised if people react negatively to what they perceive as negative posts.
 

ncjacket79

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
808
We landed two Rivals top 250 recruits last year. We have zero this year. We only have one 4 star recruit for 2021 so far and I'm not sure many are in the works. Maybe a good year can change that. I don't think its a stretch to say that we aren't landing much elite talent. We are landing very good talent. Much better than the previous regime, but its a stretch to call it elite.
IMO you’re unreasonable in your expectations. If you thought this was a 2-3 year turnaround you either do tinder stand college football or haven’t been listening.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,359
IMO you’re unreasonable in your expectations. If you thought this was a 2-3 year turnaround you either do tinder stand college football or haven’t been listening.
It’s not my expectation. I’m not criticizing Collins. I was responding to the question of why would we choose one offs when we could have elite players. I’m not sure that is actually a choice we had. Our program doesn’t have a great history of recruiting large numbers of elite players. We have never had a consensus 5 star recruit or a top 15 class. If anybody can get us there it is probably Collins, I’m just not convinced he or anybody else can do it.
 

ncjacket79

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
808
It’s not my expectation. I’m not criticizing Collins. I was responding to the question of why would we choose one offs when we could have elite players. I’m not sure that is actually a choice we had. Our program doesn’t have a great history of recruiting large numbers of elite players. We have never had a consensus 5 star recruit or a top 15 class. If anybody can get us there it is probably Collins, I’m just not convinced he or anybody else can do it.
I can understand that. OTOH why not give it a
shot? I mean this is Georgia Tech. We haven’t really tried before now.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,514
I’m with you. As I said you’re free to think however you think. I also understand why some are reluctant to get too excited but I just think it’s more fun to be positive than wait and see. What I don’t get is why you would be surprised if people react negatively to what they perceive as negative posts.
That would be because they don't appear to know what a negative post is. Believe me, I can do negative. What you've seen so far is way away from that. As well it should be, at this stage.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,514
We landed two Rivals top 250 recruits last year. We have zero this year. We only have one 4 star recruit for 2021 so far and I'm not sure many are in the works. Maybe a good year can change that. I don't think its a stretch to say that we aren't landing much elite talent. We are landing very good talent. Much better than the previous regime, but its a stretch to call it elite.
Well … you can't beat the world every year. Wisconsin has made themselves a pretty good program by classes like we have so far and there is nothing to say that we can't do better this year. If Tech commonly lands in the top 30s and occasionally hits the jackpot, that'll be enough. I look forward to seeing how the team we have now develops as it goes forward.
 

ncjacket79

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
808
Oh we tried. We tried hard.
No we haven’t really in over 20 years at least . Gailey sort of had things going by later in his tenure but had blown too many games by then to be hang on. Hiring PJ was an admission that we couldn’t compete in recruiting and needed to do something different.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,514
Hiring PJ was an admission that we couldn’t compete in recruiting and needed to do something different.
I don't think it was that. Gailey had actually brought in some pretty good (*cough* Calvin *cough*) players. I think the idea was that with Paul we could do better by getting a coach who ran a system offense and was used to recruiting for a school with a limited curriculum. I remember a lot of posts here that said that what they wanted was someone who could get us to the heights every now and then; they'd take a few mediocre/bad years if that happened. The feeling seemed to be that Gailey would never get us the heights. Ever.

Well, sure enough, Paul delivered, And people started to complain every time we had a mediocre/bad year. The kicker was 2015. If everyone stays healthy that year, we win 8 - 9. But … instead, the tsunami hit and we ended up with a losing record. It was after that that we began to hear a lot here about our recruiting and how we needed to run a more conventional O.

Ah, well. Now we'll have to see if Collins can deliver.
 

GTFLETCH

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,567
The big difference so far between Collins and Johnson is Collins has been given everything he can be given to succeed. Because Stansbury knows it takes money and AD support. Johnson's tenure started with being hamstrung at the DC position. And then it was a tooth and nail fight for funding for coaches the entire time. We had no recruiting staff when teams were adding a ton in the critical time between 2012-2016 (seriously even duke was dumping funding into recruiting at this time and we were not). When Bohannon left Johnson wanted to bring in someone else to help with the offense couldn't had to settle for Cook. We were fortunate to get 2014 to click like it did. Johnson didn't hire Roof that was a booster hire. But honestly Roof was a good injection at the time (2013 he took that dumpster fire al groh had in 2012 and made it a respectable run defense).

I am glad Collins is getting full buy-in. But i can only imagine how horrible he'd have it if he had to deal with the AD johnson did during that critical time period. The truth is Johnson's failing on the recruiting trail mainly lay in honesty. I mean **** we lost holyfield because the staff didn't lie to him and said that in our system the position he would play wouldn't be a feature back but he'd get touches both receiving and running. He played that up as a told he couldn't be an every down back... Which last i checked no one is in the NFL. Things like that. Hell johnson told vad lee he was going to change the offense up for him.... did so. Then Vad was Vad and wouldnt' even run the smallest amount of the base offense.

Sorry i don't mean to derail here but Hosts like this that act like an Orange Bowl win in the past 6 years hasn't been some kind of ceiling for us don't really know what the hell they are talking about. The narrative should not be "bring GT back" because truthfully there is only one 3 year stretch they can be talking about (o'leary 98-2000) where that applies. It should be, moving GT forward. I get the branding and its definitely targeted at some boosters but still its disingenuous.
If you are going to tell it tell it correctly.....Coach Paul Johnson was not hamstrung by any DC... Coach Johnson wanted to hire Ellis Johnson as his first defensive coordinator in 2008. Ellis Johnson had just finished a stint as Mississippi State’s defensive coordinator from 2004-07. Coach Paul Johnson implied that there wasn’t enough money to pay for Ellis, who instead went to South Carolina. So he Hired Dave Wommack.....(His Hire)....Why Did Womack leave Georgia Tech...During 2009, Coach Paul Johnson said that defensive players were coming to him asking for help with Wommack. He never elaborated on what kind of help they were asking for. Coach Johnson said he approached Wommack about shifting from defensive coordinator to coaching "slots," Coach Wommack declined. Coach Paul Johnson then hired Al Groh (His Hire)....In 2012 before Clemson Al Groh was relieved of his duties by Coach Johnson and Charles Kelly was named Interim DC. Coach Paul Johnson said Coach Kelly would have become Tech's defensive coordinator, but Kelly accepted a position at Florida State. So Ted Roff was hired (by or with booster support) he was blamed for the 2017 season... and than CPJ hired Nate Woody and then laid in egg in 2018 before he retired.

Also note that Jeff Monken left Georgia Tech after the 2009 Season and Brian Bohannan left after the 2012 season.... By 2010 Georgia Tech Football recruiting was Dumpster Fire despite winning the ACC in 2009... I'm sure Being blown out in the Peach Bowl in (08) and the OB in (09) didn't help. So when Coach Ted Roof arrived in 2013 he actually helped improve recruiting.

I have no clue about Coach Cook... or Coach West, but I am sure Coach Johnson made those hires...In fact I am not so sure Coach Cook was forced on Coach Johnson... How many QB/BB Coaches are there? Also I disaggre with you on the "The big difference so far between Collins and Johnson is Collins has been given everything he can be given to succeed.
Coach Johnson was given everything he needed to succeed.....He hired his DC.... He had Monken, Bohanan and Kelly all leave to go elsewhere...He replaced them..

The biggest difference is that Coach Collins is building a brand, enjoys recruiting... Coach Johnson was an old school great game day Coach.....

Yes AD Stansbury is supporting Coach Collins during the transistion or rebuild... But to say Coach Johnson was not supported is total BS.. Hell they built the 4.5M dollar Locker room in 2017 before the 2018 season.... CPJ was supported....should he have recruited harder, or had more folks recruiting?? Maybe.. But who is the HC??? That falls on him.
 
Last edited:

Jacket4Life9

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
208
One thing is clear whether we want to admit it or not: Georgia Tech football needed a revamped “brand” in order to take advantage of the unbelievably competitive recruiting hotbed in which GT is situated. The game has evolved since 2008–recruiting is King now more than ever before.

Ironically, technology has hurt programs such as Tech’s the most in terms of recruiting. Coaches can view a kid’s film with a simple Google search—even as late as 2010/11, coaches were still trading DVDs, etc. This has made the recruiting services (e.g. 247) more accurate IMO. There are fewer undiscovered “diamond in the rough” recruits (e.g. Michael Johnson 2-star, BeyBey 3-Star) than there were 10 years ago. Thus, we needed change. We needed a coach that knows how and wants to complete for big fish.

Regardless of how you feel about Collins’ coaching ability, I don’t think you could find anyone who understands the need (and how) to change the perception of GT in the minds of 18 year olds. Even if he ultimately fails as a coach, the next coach won’t be left with any empty cupboard.
 
Top