The Great Green Debate

[deeeznutz]

Ok every time the weed subject gets brought up people say to take it to the lounge, so that's what I am doing here.
I am pretty strongly a pro-marijuana guy in favor of legalization, or at the very least decriminalization, and I am curious what is driving the opinions of the anti- crowd. To me, it's a product less harmful than both alcohol and tobacco with some proven medicinal uses. What is the compelling reason it should stay illegal (beyond "because it's already illegal")?

 

[Nook Su Kow]

I'm pro legalization. Not a smoker myself for the last 10 years, but I think the fines for personal consumption are way to severe.

 

[JacketFromUGA]

A lot of potential tax money left on the table the way it is currently.

 

[OldJacketFan]

Legalize, regulate and tax it. Get the Cartel out of the weed business.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

I'm planning to vote for Johnson in November. Agree with @OldJacketFan .

From what I've seen on CNBC with Guptka (sic) and other medical reports, pot is less damaging to the body than alcohol and certainly tobacco. But some product lines own a lot of politicians and others don't have the (legal) constituency. Sure pot screws up a lot f lives because it feeds into addictive personalities, but those addictive personalities will find something else to get addicted to (gambling - also Government sponsored, tobacco, alcohol, GTSwarm, sex, ......)

 

[southernhive]

I agree. legalize regulate, tax. But on top of that I propose we don't help addicts with welfare or any govt subsidies of any kind and we penalize more harshly if the behavior causes the harm or death of another. But this will never happen in our coddling society.

 

[JacketFromUGA]

I agree. legalize regulate, tax. But on top of that I propose we don't help addicts with welfare or any govt subsidies of any kind and we penalize more harshly if the behavior causes the harm or death of another. But this will never happen in our coddling society.

That's a vindictive mindset I feel. We do have a case study for drug decriminalization though. Results are pretty good. https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-...-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening#.VrGvAJ5nv

 

[deeeznutz]

I agree. legalize regulate, tax. But on top of that I propose we don't help addicts with welfare or any govt subsidies of any kind and we penalize more harshly if the behavior causes the harm or death of another. But this will never happen in our coddling society.

I agree with the main part, but don't see why it should be treated more harshly than alcohol or cigarettes. If anything we should encourage active drinkers/tobacco users to switch over to weed (at least that's my opinion as someone who has done a little of all of them).

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I haven't thought about this in a few years so I would have to look at it afresh to come up with a definitive statement. But I became convinced a long time ago that criminalizing it only creates more crime.

 

[southernhive]

That's a vindictive mindset I feel. We do have a case study for drug decriminalization though. Results are pretty good. https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-...-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening#.VrGvAJ5nv

Nice study, but it did not address my main issue. People know drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, etc... cause harm. If they choose to use anyway, then so be it, but I don't know why I should have to pay to rehabilitate or cure them from the problems these substances cause.

Like i said, this will never happen with the current state of our society.

 

[southernhive]

I agree with the main part, but don't see why it should be treated more harshly than alcohol or cigarettes. If anything we should encourage active drinkers/tobacco users to switch over to weed (at least that's my opinion as someone who has done a little of all of them).

I think they should all be treated the same. I really don't see a difference in any of them in general.

 

[deeeznutz]

Nice study, but it did not address my main issue. People know drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, etc... cause harm. If they choose to use anyway, then so be it, but I don't know why I should have to pay to rehabilitate or cure them from the problems these substances cause.

Like i said, this will never happen with the current state of our society.

The fact is we are already paying for "rehabilitating" these folks (albeit in a very inefficient way) through prison costs. When you see the numbers of people in our prisons for non-violent drug offenses it's staggering, especially considering how many prisons are run as private for-profit businesses. A much cheaper alternative to incarcerating people is giving them treatment, plus you don't destroy any future hire-ability by giving them a criminal record. This approach would literally cost you less than what we are doing now, on top of the additional tax revenue that would come in as well.
Edit: Just want to say I appreciate the open, honest debate on this issue. I'm kind of passionate about this issue, as you can probably tell. It's kind of funny that not a single anti-legalization person has dropped by to leave an opinion.

 

[southernhive]

We do pay for incarcerating and rehabilitating. Neither work well. The best option is don't use. We have choices, we should live with the results of our choices and not force others to pay for our bad choices. I give a lot of money freely to programs that have a good track record of rehabilitation, but I give this money freely and it is not gov't guided or funded.

I am passionate about helping youth to not make bad choices.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

@deeeznutz makes a good point. The U.S. has more people in prison than any other country on the face of the earth. A disproportionately high number of these are related to drug offenses. There has been by-partisan support in recent years to reform our criminal justice system because what we are doing right now is choosing to spend money on the least efficient, most costly and least effective approach possible. We went down this road with prohibition and people saw relatively quickly, by comparison, that this approach fueled organized crime, hurt lots of innocent people and cost the tax payer dearly. Just say "no" doesn't work and is naive.

 

[bravejason]

I want to know the immediate and long term impacts to a marijuana user, in comparison to alcohol and tobacco. For alcohol, the immediate impact is a reduction in or a complete loss of physical and mental capabilities. I'm not aware of any immediate effects for tobacco use. For long term use, both have serious health consequences. Both are addictive. What about marijuana: Addictiveness? Immediate impacts? Long term health impacts? I see comments that it is less, but by how much? Also, do we care about the method of use (e.g., smoking, eating, injection, etc). Should DUI/DWI apply to someone that just had marijuana? Is 2nd hand smoke a concern? With its use having been legal in other countries, surely these questions already answers.

 

[JacketFromUGA]

I want to know the immediate and long term impacts to a marijuana user, in comparison to alcohol and tobacco. For alcohol, the immediate impact is a reduction in or a complete loss of physical and mental capabilities. I'm not aware of any immediate effects for tobacco use. For long term use, both have serious health consequences. Both are addictive. What about marijuana: Addictiveness? Immediate impacts? Long term health impacts? I see comments that it is less, but by how much? Also, do we care about the method of use (e.g., smoking, eating, injection, etc). Should DUI/DWI apply to someone that just had marijuana? Is 2nd hand smoke a concern? With its use having been legal in other countries, surely these questions already answers.

I recommend firing up Google Scholar and searching the terms "systematic review" with marijuana or cannabis or any other combination you can think of.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Should DUI/DWI apply to someone that just had marijuana?

Yes, and already does.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Also, do we care about the method of use (e.g., smoking, eating, injection, etc).

I care. I confess that I was a cigarette smoke in my youth. I now realize that lungs are not supposed to breathe smoke of any kind. It does damage and should be avoided. For marijuana users this presents a few obstacles. Inhaling is one of the fastest delivery methods to the blood stream and allows the smoker to control his dosage. Edibles have a delayed impact on the system and most O.D.'s that I have heard of come from that method since someone does not know how much they are ingesting nor the potency until it hits the system.

 

[jwsavhGT]

I want to know the immediate and long term impacts to a marijuana user, in comparison to alcohol and tobacco. For alcohol, the immediate impact is a reduction in or a complete loss of physical and mental capabilities. I'm not aware of any immediate effects for tobacco use. For long term use, both have serious health consequences. Both are addictive. What about marijuana: Addictiveness? Immediate impacts? Long term health impacts? I see comments that it is less, but by how much? Also, do we care about the method of use (e.g., smoking, eating, injection, etc). Should DUI/DWI apply to someone that just had marijuana? Is 2nd hand smoke a concern? With its use having been legal in other countries, surely these questions already answers.

I don't smoke it (literally makes me nauseated) but I have an immediate family member who has smoked over 35 years. He will be the first to admit that pot has affected his brain function. He has short-term memory issues and mood swings that are not pretty. I have no more desire to be sharing the road with someone who is high on weed than I want to be on the road with someone who is impaired by alcohol, prescription drugs, etc. I think I have no problem with medical marijuana use but I'm not very comfortable with how the gov't would regulate.

@deeeznutz thanks for taking this to the Swarm Lounge.

 

[BuzzStone]

I think most normal people are all for it being legal. Marijuana does far less harm than Alcohol or Cigarettes. I do not agree with an adult not being allowed to do any drug on their own as long as they don't infringing on anyone else's rights.