The fear of attacks on immigrants/minorities, rational or irrational?

cyptomcat

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_Sikh_temple_shooting

On August 5, 2012, a massacre took place at the gurdwara (Sikh temple) in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, where 40-year-old Wade Michael Page fatally shot six people and wounded four others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overland_Park_Jewish_Community_Center_shooting

On April 13, 2014, a pair of shootings committed by a lone gunman occurred at the Jewish Community Center of Greater Kansas City and Village Shalom, a Jewish retirement community, both located in Overland Park, Kansas. A total of three people were killed in the shootings, two who were shot at the community center and one who was shot at the retirement community.

The gunman, 73-year-old Frazier Glenn Miller, Jr. of Aurora, Missouri, originally from North Carolina, was arrested in the attack and was subsequently tried, convicted of murder and other crimes, and sentenced to death. He was a Neo-Nazi and former political candidate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_City_mosque_shooting

A mass shooting occurred on the evening of January 29, 2017, at the Islamic Cultural Centre of Quebec City, a mosque in the Sainte-Foy neighbourhood of Quebec City, Canada. Six people were killed and nineteen others injured.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...roup-who-removed-his-turban-cut-off-his-hair/

According to a 2013 survey by Stanford University and the Sikh American Legal Defense and Education Fund, 49 percent of Americans believe that Sikhism is a sect of Islam, even though it’s a separate religion. Some Americans also tend to associate turbans and Sikhs with Osama bin Laden, al-Qaeda, the Islamic State or the Taliban. The survey found that 20 percent of respondents are likely to become angry or apprehensive if they encounter a stranger wearing a turban.

Sikhism, which originated in India, is the fifth largest religion in the world and is independent from Islam.


Still, Sikh Americans have been disproportionately targeted because of their religion or what people perceived it to be.

According a 2010 survey by the Sikh Coalition, 1 in 10 Sikhs in the Bay Area reported being victims of hate crimes, 68 percent of which were physical attacks. Many of the attacks have been violent and fatal.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/25/kansas-shooting-injured-man-suspect-visas

Madasani told the New York Times on Friday night Purinton “asked us what visa are we currently on and whether we are staying here illegally”.

Both men were educated in the US and were working in the country legally.

Madasani told the Times: “We didn’t react. People do stupid things all the time. This guy took it to the next level.”

Witnesses told investigators that ... Adam Purinton yelled at two Indian men to “get out of my country” before opening fire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting

During a prayer service, nine people, including the senior pastor, state senatorClementa C. Pinckney were killed by gunman Dylann Roof, a 21-year-old white supremacist. Three other victims survived.
 

Cam

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Nice try, but not even remotely close.
Milwaukee, no offense, but in all of these threads your responses are very short and offer no explanation to your point. Take some time to write out a response outlining why you feel that he is not constructing a good argument. Because just giving dismissive remarks makes it look like you don't have any way to actually refute him. Why do you feel the linked articles of evidence of attacks on peaceful people aren't a sign of a deeper problem?
 

Squints

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Nice try, but not even remotely close.

You're absolutely right. It's not close at all. All of these have already actually happened. On or very close to US soil.

Milwaukee, no offense, but in all of these threads your responses are very short and offer no explanation to your point. Take some time to write out a response outlining why you feel that he is not constructing a good argument. Because just giving dismissive remarks makes it look like you don't have any way to actually refute him. Why do you feel the linked articles of evidence of attacks on peaceful people aren't a sign of a deeper problem?

That's because he's not looking for a conversation. He's looking for an echo chamber.
 
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AE 87

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Both threads cite anecdotes. Neither makes an explicit argument.

The apparent implicit argument for each is that the cited anecdotes are sufficient to warrant a generalization of a problem.

On the face of it, neither argument is sufficient. However, when we think of the number of Muslim Immigrants over the last several years which serves as the source of the anecdotes mentioned in the other thread, we're probably talking a few million top in the West (probably 1/2 million adults in the US). We're talking about well over 100 million adult native-born Americans.

So, for those wondering about rational discussion, "It's not even close," is a pretty apt response. That being said, I suspect @cyptomcat would agree and that he was just trying to make a rhetorical point about drawing conclusions from limited anecdotal evidence.
 

Milwaukee

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http://www.heritage.org/terrorism/report/30-terrorist-plots-foiled-how-the-system-worked

1. Richard Reid, December 2001.
A British citizen and self-professed follower of Osama bin Laden trained in Afghanistan, Reid hid explosives inside his shoes before boarding a flight from Paris to Miami on which he attempted to light the fuse with a match. Reid was caught in the act and apprehended on board the plane by the flight attendants and passengers. FBI officials took Reid into custody after the plane made an emergency landing at Boston's Logan International Airport.[1]

In 2003, Reid was found guilty on charges of terrorism, and a U.S. federal court sentenced him to life imprisonment.[2]

2. Jose Padilla, May 2002. U.S. officials arrested Padilla in May 2002 at O'Hare airport in Chicago as he returned to the United States from Pakistan, where he met with 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and received al-Qaeda instructions and training.[3] Upon his arrest, he was initially charged as an enemy combatant and for planning to use a dirty bomb (an explosive laced with radioactive material) in an attack against America.[4]

Prior to his conviction, Padilla brought a case against the federal government claiming that he had been denied the right of habeas corpus (the right of an individual to petition against unlawful imprisonment). In a 5-to-4 decision, the U.S. Supreme Court found that the case against him had been filed improperly.[5] In 2005, the government indicted Padilla for conspiring against the U.S. with Islamic terrorist groups.

In August 2007, Padilla was found guilty by a civilian jury after a three-month trial. He was later sentenced by the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida to 17 years and four months in prison.[6] Padilla continues to attempt to have his conviction overturned.[7]

3. Lackawanna Six, September 2002. When the FBI arrested Sahim Alwan, Yahya Goba, Yasein Taher, Faysal Galab, Shafal Mosed, and Mukhtar al-Bakri, the press dubbed them the "Lackawanna Six," the "Buffalo Six," or the "Buffalo Cell." Five of the six had been born and raised in Lackawanna, New York.[8] These six American citizens of Yemeni descent were arrested for conspiring with terrorist groups. They had stated that they were going to Pakistan to attend a religious training camp but instead attended an al-Qaeda jihadist camp.

All six pled guilty in 2003 to providing support to al-Qaeda. Goba and al-Bakri were sentenced to 10 years in prison, Taher and Mosed to eight years, Alwan to nine and a half years, and Galab to seven years.[9] Mosed and Galab have since completed their sentences and have been released.[10]

Recent reports indicate that Jaber Elbaneh, one of the FBI's most wanted and often considered to be a seventh member of the Lackawanna cell, has been captured in Yemen. It remains to be seen, however, whether he will be tried in the U.S., since the U.S. does not have an extradition treaty with Yemen.[11]

4. Iyman Faris, May 2003. Faris is a naturalized U.S. citizen, originally from Kashmir, who was living in Columbus, Ohio. He was arrested for conspiring to use blowtorches to collapse the Brooklyn Bridge, a plot devised after meetings with al-Qaeda leadership including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.[12] The New York City Police Department learned of the plot and increased police surveillance around the bridge. Faced with the additional security, Faris and his superiors canceled the attack.[13]

Faris pled guilty to conspiracy and providing material support to al-Qaeda and was later sentenced in federal district court to 20 years in prison, the maximum allowed under his plea agreement.[14]

5. Virginia Jihad Network, June 2003. Eleven men were arrested in Alexandria, Virginia, for weapons counts and for violating the Neutrality Acts, which prohibit U.S. citizens and residents from attacking countries with which the United States is at peace. Four of the 11 men pled guilty. Upon further investigation, the remaining seven were indicted on additional charges of conspiring to support terrorist organizations. They were found to have connections with al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and Lashkar-i-Taiba, a terrorist organization that targets the Indian government. The authorities stated that the Virginia men had used paintball games to train and prepare for battle. The group had also acquired surveillance and night vision equipment and wireless video cameras.[15] Two more individuals were later indicted in the plot: Ali al-Timimi, the group's spiritual leader, and Ali Asad Chandia.

Ali al-Timimi was found guilty of soliciting individuals to assault the United States and sentenced to life in prison. Ali Asad Chandia received 15 years for supporting Lashkar-i-Taiba.[16] Randall Todd Royer, Ibrahim al-Hamdi, Yong Ki Kwon, Khwaja Mahmood Hasan, Muhammed Aatique, and Donald T. Surratt pled guilty and were sentenced to prison terms ranging from three years and 10 months to 20 years. Masoud Khan, Seifullah Chapman, and Hammad Adur-Raheem were found guilty and later sentenced to prison terms ranging from 52 months to life.[17] Both Caliph Basha Ibn Abdur-Raheem and Sabri Benkhala were acquitted at trial.[18]

6. Nuradin M. Abdi, November 2003. Abdi, a Somali citizen living in Columbus, Ohio, was arrested and charged in a plot to bomb a local shopping mall. Abdi was an associate of convicted terrorists Christopher Paul and Iyman Faris and admittedly conspired with the two to provide material support to terrorists. Following his arrest, Abdi admitted to traveling overseas to seek admittance to terrorist training camps, as well as to having met with a Somali warlord associated with Islamists.

Abdi has since pled guilty to conspiracy to provide material support to terrorists, one of the four counts for which he was indicted. He was subsequently sentenced to 10 years in jail per the terms of a plea agreement.[19]
 

Milwaukee

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Both threads cite anecdotes. Neither makes an explicit argument.

The apparent implicit argument for each is that the cited anecdotes are sufficient to warrant a generalization of a problem.

On the face of it, neither argument is sufficient. However, when we think of the number of Muslim Immigrants over the last several years which serves as the source of the anecdotes mentioned in the other thread, we're probably talking a few million top in the West (probably 1/2 million adults in the US). We're talking about well over 100 million adult native-born Americans.

So, for those wondering about rational discussion, "It's not even close," is a pretty apt response. That being said, I suspect @cyptomcat would agree and that he was just trying to make a rhetorical point about drawing conclusions from limited anecdotal evidence.

I agree with the beginning and end of this. The entire thread was a copy and paste drive-by without a discussion to branch from. My last post proves how easy that is to do.
 

Milwaukee

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You're absolutely right. It's not close at all. All of these have already actually happened. On or very close to US soil.



That's because he's not looking for a conversation. He's looking for an echo chamber.

See the copy and paste above about the foiled plots. That part was thought to be rhetorical, as AE would say.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
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10,487
@OP

IMO rational. And every perpetrator of cited incidents should face the full brunt of the criminal justice system.

Or were you just attempting to equate legitimate concerns, regarding terrorist infiltration of refugee groups, with home grown hate and racism? :whistle:
 
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