The downfield lateral, why we don't see it?

[Whatllyahave]

We did see it a few times and maybe more often this as JT finishes polishing his already considerable talents.

 

[B Lifsey]

Because we would score too fast

 

[GTNavyNuke]

One of those Colorado option wizards had a sweet down field pitch back in the day.
Edit:

Great pitch. If it's fumbled, its most likely out of bounds. Plus gets the ball into the RB hands who should be faster. Even if not, I like to keep my QB from getting too tired out. A tired QB doesn't pass as well and makes more mental errors. I love how the RB turned it on once he got the ball. He could stay out of the game and recover for a while.

But the down side is that the RB isn't downfield blocking.

 

[AE 87]

OK, a couple obvious points to set the stage:
1) It's not something you just do. The person receiving the pitch must be ready for it as opposed to looking to make a block or something.
2) Unlike rugby, you can maintain control on O and get 1st downs, etc. There's no need to keep the ball moving. So, there should be a good reason for it, besides "fun."

So, it's most likely to happen within an already existing option play. It would occur if defenders slow played taking the QB and allowed him to get past the line of scrimmage.

This happened at times with Nesbit and Allen, but I think Ds are being more aggressive now. Also, if JT has the ball that far, it may be better to block than keep pitch relationship.

 

[tech_wreck47]

It's a lot more dangerous to do down field, there are a lot more defenders normally around the ball, and you would start to see cb's and safety's baiting the pitch and then picking it off for six, it's a lot harder to do that behind the line of scrimage. It would cause more open body hits on jt as well. If it was done I would like it to be a designed play that's only called once in a while, so we could have a different blocking scheme down field to protect jt and the pitch guy.

 

[Stonewall]

GS QB raymond gross was the master of the downfield lateral.

here are two from same game. NC champ game in 1990. i tried to post embed, but it wouldn't work. copy, paste, and watch:

youtu.be/uPms0Se0C4M?t=2m42s

youtu.be/uPms0Se0C4M?t=3m3s

 

[☠CaptainBuzz☠]

It seems to me that the reason is obvious. It is very rare for the QB and AB to both go unscathed downfield. Generally if the QB keeps, that means that the pitch key took the AB and vice versa. Thats the way the play is designed.

 

[1939hotmagic]

Remember the buzz in recent years of the very successful Arkansas HS coach who doesn't punt, always goes it on 4th down regardless of field position, on kickoffs always goes for the onside kick?

Well, now he's looking to rugby concepts.

Just found this: http://www.backingthepack.com/2015/...-football-science-now-includes-rugby-concepts

which linked to this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ach-who-never-punts-has-another-radical-idea/

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

Question: The penalty for an illegal forward pass is 5 yards from the spot of the foul and loss of down. If the illegal pass occurs on 3rd down and more than 5 yards downfield of the line to gain (a.k.a., the first down marker), what is the resulting down and distance? Is it first and 10?

4th down. Without looking it up, don't think it is a spot foul. May be wrong.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Almost impossible to keep pitch relation and when you're running down the field you need to protect the ball more, which makes it harder to pitch. Furthermore with differing speeds in opposing players, you can't really predict how close a trailing defender could be, and no real way to find out until you are already pitching it. You can't really compare it to rugby because, iirc, you can't block in rugby, so your team mates will all trail behind as well as the nature of what happens after you're tackled, I believe you can still pass it off to your own team, but you can't turn over. Meaning facing backwards when you get tackled is the best. I could be wrong, but I think that is how it goes. Basically rugby incentive's players being behind the ball carrier, and the ball carrier to face back as a tackle is approaching, when in football the incentive is to get down field to block, and there is little to no reason for a ball carrier to look back.

Did you watch the video posted above you

Remember the buzz in recent years of the very successful Arkansas HS coach who doesn't punt, always goes it on 4th down regardless of field position, on kickoffs always goes for the onside kick?

Well, now he's looking to rugby concepts.

Just found this: http://www.backingthepack.com/2015/...-football-science-now-includes-rugby-concepts

which linked to this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ach-who-never-punts-has-another-radical-idea/

Great find. Thanks.

 

[33jacket]

alot of reasons....
first. The rugby field is 40% wider than the football field, making multiple wide option plays easier.
second, you can't forward pass in rugby.....so this is the only way to move it and the game is designed that way, but more importantly is the set piece
the set piece is the closest to 'snapping' the ball at the LOS. When you do a set piece (scrum or lineout) in rugby you can't have defenders lining up in a cover 3 zone waiting to head hunt the pitchman and ball carrier like you can in american football. All the players have to be within a yard or two of the ball, because you can't pass it you go wide and pitch and pitch. But all the defenders are at the LOS.

So this is the same in football...we pitch at the LOS since the defenders are close and easy to read...but once we get beyond that, even if we were able to keep pitch relationship which is almost impossible; then you have to worry about the deep S making a bee line to light you up. Our LB's don't have to be within a yard of the LOS. So after that first wave keeping the second relationship is almost impossible, because to get yardage you have to avoid deep defenders like CB, S, LBs....in rugby you don't have that issue. They are all at the LOS.

In american football, once the ball carrier and pitchman get beyond the LOS; so lets say JT pitches to Ike...now Ike has it and for some reason was able to be free enough to have a pitch relationship with Juene lets say (but I don't see how, since the field isn't wide enough like rugby), but lets just say this is the case. It is totally legal for the defense lined up in cover 2, 3 or quarters to come up full speed from 15 yards back and light the hell up Juene even without the ball. Just light him up...since he is considered a blocker and the ball carrier is beyond the LOS now. The D could freaking kill our skill position players every time we tried this trick.

And why thats different than what we do now, is juene is in blocking mode today. So he is the aggressor. If he has to worry about pitch relationship and the chance the ball is pitched to him...his man goes untouched. Totally untouched. Who then is free to light anyone up. Because in american football you can spread the D around the field....is why this doesn't work.

can there be some concepts to infuse into some play designs...maybe, but as a pure pitch, pitch option; you take away too many blockers, the field isn't as wide and the D's are spread out to kill that second wave of pitching....just wouldn't work on a consistent play basis.

hook and ladder sure. The odd option and someone gets free down the sideline and we pitch to him sure...but as a designed play...just wouldn't work. It works in chaos mode vs set plays in football

 

[lv20gt]

Did you watch the video posted above you?

I did. Fun play. Changes nothing I said.

 

[InsideLB]

I remember a famous downfield pitch by an Oklahoma QB in an Orange Bowl. I think the QB was the MVP.

What I remember is the QB getting tripped up and flying through the air almost parallel to the ground then making a perfect pitch while in mid-air to the trailing back who took it to the house untouched. Anyone else remember it?

IIRC, Oklahoma won the game.

I don't think it's something that really gets coached because it's too risky. More a happenstance.

 

[AE 87]

One nice thing about rugby on this question is that the rule is explicit that "backwards" is relative to the player pitching and not absolute. The football rules, I've seen at least, seem ambiguous and tend toward being interpreted absolutely. It'd be hard to have downfield laterals if you have to compensate for the forward momentum of the ball carrier.

 

[zhavenor]

The biggest difference between Rugby and football and pitching down field is the fact defensive players in rugby cannot not come from behind the play and touch the ball in the air on a pitch. The player would be considered offsides and it would be a penalty. Therefore in rugby the player only need to worry about players in front of them for pitching.

 

[bravejason]

4th down. Without looking it up, don't think it is a spot foul. May be wrong.

It's a spot foul, unless I'm misreading the rule.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

Any former rugby players on the board want to chime in? It's second nature in that sport. They're good at it because it's integral and it's practiced. It'd be an interesting experiment to see a rugby team suit up and do their thing on the grid iron vs a football defense.

I choreographed the Haka for the All Blacks.

 

[InsideLB]

The biggest difference between Rugby and football and pitching down field is the fact defensive players in rugby cannot not come from behind the play and touch the ball in the air on a pitch. The player would be considered offsides and it would be a penalty. Therefore in rugby the player only need to worry about players in front of them for pitching.

True dat!