The 4-2-5: How Does It Work?

[Andewa]

http://smartfootball.com/uncategori...ersons-tcu-4-2-5-defense#sthash.EmbKqsiw.dpbs

Decent explanation of TCU's 4-2-5 here.

Great link! That's exactly what I was hoping for. I am surprised I didn't find it when googling. The most interesting part in that article is about how the defense is broken up into 3 different attack groups each with a separate play call. Not having to have 11 guys on the same page must be nice.

 

[Skeptic]

Based on what we've seen at GT and at UNC the last few years, it doesn't. Work, I mean. And that is the highly technical explanation of it.

 

[AE 87]

Great link! That's exactly what I was hoping for. I am surprised I didn't find it when googling. The most interesting part in that article is about how the defense is broken up into 3 different attack groups each with a separate play call. Not having to have 11 guys on the same page must be nice.

TCU is unique. I wish we would do something like this because it forces QBs to make different kinds of reads, iiuc. You can't just read standard coverage because left and right could be doing different things. It would be for our D what our spread option does for our O. Again, iiuc.

 

[33jacket]

Great link! That's exactly what I was hoping for. I am surprised I didn't find it when googling. The most interesting part in that article is about how the defense is broken up into 3 different attack groups each with a separate play call. Not having to have 11 guys on the same page must be nice.

Tcu d is very multiple and way more complex than the blah we strut out. They attack schematically weaknesses and make you think. He is an awesome mind.

 

[Andewa]

Tcu d is very multiple and way more complex than the blah we strut out. They attack schematically weaknesses and make you think. He is an awesome mind.

Is this what CTR is trying/hoping to do? I remember when he came here and said the 4-2-5 would pretty much be our base defense. He said it was because so many of our opponents do the HUNH/spread option stuff. Do you think CTR is capable of implementing this successfully?

 

[AE 87]

Is this what CTR is trying/hoping to do? I remember when he came here and said the 4-2-5 would pretty much be our base defense. He said it was because so many of our opponents do the HUNH/spread option stuff. Do you think CTR is capable of implementing this successfully?

Short answer is, "No" to the first and probably, "N/A" to the second.

4-2-5 is the alignment. As has been said, it adds an extra DB in place of an LB to better play against the spread offenses that typically use more receivers.

TCU's D uses this alignment, but their scheme is much different from most. That is their scheme, iiuc, relies on calling the the line, field-side (LB and DB), and boundary-side (LB & DB) differently. Most Defenses, again iiuc, call plays for the whole D together, or, if any division, with the DB's independently of front 6/7.

 

[Deltajacket]

Thank you 33 and others for such a great explanation. Why does Roof run such a vanilla scheme? It literally looks like what my son's 8th grade team ran!

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Tcu isn't even a top 50 D this year. Take that for what it's worth. I'm not saying Patterson isn't a great coach. He probably is. I know little about him. But it seems many here don't compare apples to apples at times with regard to coaching comparisons.

 

[alagold]

To me, getting the right rover /nickel is the key.I have watched teams for yrs using this and having a force there is vital..The perfect size is 6-1/2 210 or so-- tall enough for tight ends, weighs enough for tackling but must have speed for coverage and blitzing.Then it is up to DC to use right.

 

[zhavenor]

GT runs a 30. or 3-0. That doesn't mean triple option. We run a 30 set. Pretty rare nowadays

however, they technically line up in a 12 set. its 30 personnel in a 12 alignment. In fact, some DC's treat our alignments as 12 sets. or double TE single back....they even call the AB the TE so the team can translate easily to what they typically learn. Its really pertinent when the playside AB blocks, or in a passing set. The AB becomes a seam TE.

I don't think that is right. We line up in a 30 set that functionaly is a 10 set. The a backs are much more like wr the te.

 

[Jackethawk]

At the end of the day it's all about the Jimmys and the Joes not the Xs and Os.

 

[gtg936g]

I'd just love to see a corner blitz from Ted.

The 4-2-5 allows you to be a little more aggressive in pass situations because your Nickel should be able to cover in space and play man coverage while blitzing a safety or corner.

 

[Sideways]

I've learned so much about how our offense works from Longestday's videos. If you haven't seen them, you are really missing out. While I know what each player on our offense is supposed to do on most of the plays, I don't know what each player on our defense is supposed to do. I'd like to have a thread discussing how our 4-2-5 is supposed to work. Please post any info you have on player assignments/read keys or any relevant articles/interviews.

From my brief research, I have learned:
-Run defense is simpler. Each person in the front six is assigned to defend a specific gap. No LB's have to worry about dropping into pass coverage.
-Safeties read the receivers when deciding whether to play the pass or the run.


What other advantages/disadvantages does the 4-2-5 offer? Feel free to correct me.

If there are any advantages, I have yet to see them. The main problem is getting pressure on the quarterback. Back when we had Guyton and company ball carriers looked liked they were being swarmed by fire ants. Now, we are almost robotic. Not playing fast or loose. And no I do not have a solution but there are real problems with this defense.

 

[33jacket]

I don't think that is right. We line up in a 30 set that functionaly is a 10 set. The a backs are much more like wr the te.

haha...ok...first did you read my post? Like literally the first part of a second line. They are not a WR at all tecnically. They sit in a offset TE spot. Hence why I said its a 12 set. Its not a 10 set, a WR by alignment has to be split off tackle wider than the 9 gap.

serious though, did you read the whole post?

but just so you know. and this is FACT. Paul Johnson himself calls us a 30. So...not saying its technically right, because premotion we start out in a 12. post motion we are in a 21. But its what paul calls us, running the 30 and its why i said what i said.

 

[33jacket]

At the end of the day it's all about the Jimmys and the Joes not the Xs and Os.

it must be right? Jim Harbaugh doesnt' matter, he brought in a bunch of free agents

coaches matter a lot more than people feel like they need to believe...

Dan quinn? Who?

Jim Maclwain huh?

good coaches take decent teams and make em much better....any coach can coach labron, so yeah...at that all star level you are right. If your team is larry bird, MJ etc...but when its a wash of talent like on the football field...coaches matter a ton.

 

[Josh H]

33jacket: It's interesting what you say about how defense, how we always line up the same way, never stunt, never blitz. Didn't every interview Ted Roof did before he came here claim that he wanted to be multiple and aggressive?

I wonder what happened.

 

[Jackethawk]

Michigan had a top 10 defense last year. Maclwain has gotten a couple breaks to be where they are, and Florida has never lacked talent. I agree that coaches matter, but great coaching cant cover up a lack of talent. Ask any coach at any level and they will tell you the same thing.

it must be right? Jim Harbaugh doesnt' matter, he brought in a bunch of free agents

coaches matter a lot more than people feel like they need to believe...

Dan quinn? Who?

Jim Maclwain huh?

good coaches take decent teams and make em much better....any coach can coach labron, so yeah...at that all star level you are right. If your team is larry bird, MJ etc...but when its a wash of talent like on the football field...coaches matter a ton.

 

[33jacket]

Michigan had a top 10 defense last year. Maclwain has gotten a couple breaks to be where they are, and Florida has never lacked talent. I agree that coaches matter, but great coaching cant cover up a lack of talent. Ask any coach at any level and they will tell you the same thing.

A great coach cant cover up a gross lack of talent you are 100 percent right. A great coach can cover up 1-2 weaknesses, accentuate positives etc. or win a game or two or three a year more. Just depends

 

[Skeptic]

A great coach cant cover up a gross lack of talent you are 100 percent right. A great coach can cover up 1-2 weaknesses, accentuate positives etc. or win a game or two or three a year more. Just depends

A great coach prepares a team, and maybe once-twice in a game can make a difference on a play itself. Example is New England when whoever it was they played this weekend (sorry, I don't follow the NFL) went into that crazy lonesome polecat trick play designed, apparently, to catch NE with 12 guys on the field and out of position. NE didn't bite for either. That's coaching.

 

[AE 87]

Tcu isn't even a top 50 D this year. Take that for what it's worth. I'm not saying Patterson isn't a great coach. He probably is. I know little about him. But it seems many here don't compare apples to apples at times with regard to coaching comparisons.

It will be interesting to watch. TCU has already played Texas Tech and KSt which are big offenses.