Thanks for a great season of MBB!

[dtm1997]

I didn't think we'd be letting him go regardless of results and the strong finish to the season makes me glad, hopeful for next season, and willing to give CJP a little more rope, but let's be very clear on something.

If CJP cannot get this team to post-season play next year, and I'm not sure an NIT is acceptable for me, when it would have been this year, then he 100% has earned being let go.

Jose Alvarado has essentially developed in to the 4-year rocksteady ACC PG we hoped he would be. If you can't put together a roster and coach them to the NCAA tourney once during Jose's college career, you've earned being replaced.

We're poised to get there next year and I'm optimistic that we do, but that's my take.

 

[MtnWasp]

I think we all agree that next year is a pivotal year for Pastner. That is true as much for Pastner's credibility outside the Gt community as inside it.

I would add the caveat that a coach should be held accountable for things under his control. If Pastner lands a good recruiting class in the Fall but then Alvarado or Devoe goes down to an injury?

 

[YlJacket]

To answer the hypothetical - sure a coach gets a pass when a one off injury happens. However, this would be (pick a number) pass for CJP. 5th year in he pretty much has to get to the NCAAs or at absolute minimum be last 4 out plus a solid class. And bear with me but not 12th in the ACC class.

To be clear I am not advocating a change this year at any level. Just my perspective is it is time to produce now - full stop.

 

[dtm1997]

I think we all agree that next year is a pivotal year for Pastner. That is true as much for Pastner's credibility outside the Gt community as inside it.

I would add the caveat that a coach should be held accountable for things under his control. If Pastner lands a good recruiting class in the Fall but then Alvarado or Devoe goes down to an injury?

Building roster depth is under CJP's control. He'll have had 5 seasons to build the requisite "next man up", so the injury bug item really isn't acceptable anymore. He goes in to next season with one of the best back courts in the ACC, if not the country, a reliable 3rd guard in Bubba (who I believe still has some upside), a versatile 2nd year 2G in Asanti Price, and a FR who has a whole bag of scoring tricks in Tristan Maxwell.

I'm very much rooting for the team's success, which by proxy is Pastner's success. I remain uncertain of him as the long-term solution, but I'm open-minded to keep going, as long as results are produced at this point.

Jose Alvarado doesn't play in the NCAAs next year, then results haven't been produced. He & the team are positioned extremely well to do so, now CJP needs to lead them there.

 

[Techster]

I think we all agree that next year is a pivotal year for Pastner. That is true as much for Pastner's credibility outside the Gt community as inside it.

I would add the caveat that a coach should be held accountable for things under his control. If Pastner lands a good recruiting class in the Fall but then Alvarado or Devoe goes down to an injury?

Something I kinda touched on earlier, but I would say it's a pivotal year for our program...probably one of the most important seasons for GT basketball in the last two decades (if not more). We are set up to be an NCAAT team. If Pastner does not get us there next season, regardless of injuries or guys transferring, then he will have wasted our best team since we last made the tournament with Hewitt. If we can make the NCAAT, especially if we can get to the 2nd week, I think there will be a LOT of upside to sell recruits...not just the elite "one and done" types, but the next tier guys like we got in Alvarado and Devoe. Guys who are the definition of Pastner's "get old, stay old" mantra.

However, if we fail to make the NCAAT, I think it's almost certain Pastner will no longer be with GT past next season. Then GT is rebuilding again, with only Devoe a proven commodity (IF he doesn't transfer out for his last year which is almost certain). That's another 3-5 years of uncertainty, and two decades of GT falling further into the abyss. Given the way college basketball is going, I'm not sure GT basketball can easily recover from that...as we have seen since Hewitt was let go.

There's a LOT riding on next season for the good of GT basketball. Whether you agree Pastner is the coach to lead us back to prominence or not, you better get behind him (and by extension our beloved basketball team) for at least next season.

 

[Jacketman99]

Barring major injuries this should absolutely be an NCAA team next year. We will have one of the best starting backcourts in the ACC. Hopefully Devoe continues to improve and cuts down on turnovers. I am looking forward to the continued improvement of Moses, especially considering this is only his 4th year of organized basketball. Parham and Usher appeared to be more comfortable with their roles toward the end of the season. The change in offensive style of play should fit well with the strengths of next year's team. The freshmen should add a little depth. Although we will miss Banks defensively we will still have a very good defensive team. Having to play long stretches without Banks because of foul trouble at least gives us tape on what worked and did not work. We have momentum going into next year. Hopefully there are no other scandals or injuries to derail us.

 

[MtnWasp]

Defining standard by which we define a successful season, where we place that bar, is an interesting topic for discussion.

Reaching the NCAAT is a simple, strait-forward standard to set.

I imprinted on the game in the eighties, with GT reaching the NCAAT for 9 strait seasons. To be honest, I grew to assume that GT would be an NCAAT team.

But there have been substantial changes in the arena since then that has significantly raised the bar in terms of reaching the Tournament:

First, there are more eligible teams. There are now 353 eligible programs. There are more conferences and more automatic bids that are only partially compensated by play-in addendums.

Second, and probably most significant is the rise of the Mid-Major programs. There has developed substantial parity in budget and quality of play by Mid-major programs. Gonzaga may be the poster-boy for this movement, but it is only representative of a greater general trend. Mid Major programs can now budget to keep good coaches and the days where the mid-majors were a coaching farm system for the High Majors is a thing of the past.

ACC conference expansion to 15 teams and parity within the ACC is also problematic in terms of getting an NCAAT bid. What we saw this season in conference was a dramatic compression of the standings with teams at the top moving down and teams at the bottom moving up. The records of all 15 teams gravitated toward .500 due to parity,which makes getting an at-large bid out of conference more difficult.

Fourth, the AAU system and the international scene are producing more college ready talent that is being spread more evenly throughout the ranks. We still have a few blue-blood programs that monopolize the Blue Chips, but other than that, there is a lot of jockeying for talent deeper into the ranks.

The result is parity. Quality of play is spreading down the food-chain. there are more programs playing good, competitive basketball.

The present NCAAT field includes less than 20% of eligible teams, and there are more competitive teams. The situation is not like it was in the eighties.

I went back to look at those 9 strait NCAAT bids that Cremins' teams received from 1985-1993. I don't think that three of those nine teams make the NCAAT field today. The 1987 team was 7-7 (5th out of 8) in conference and 16-13 overall. The 1991 team was 6-8 in conference (5th) and 17-13 overall, The 1993 team was 8-8 in conference (6th) and 19-11 overall. That might have been a bubble team. Those were the "glory days"

Using an NCAAT bid as the bar of "acceptable" is pretty tough, statistically speaking. I know that fans of the Blue Blood programs can think that way, but not sure about GT.

I tend to think that Being .500 in conference, winning 20 games and being "bubbly" is a good year. I think under the currently climate, getting an NCAAT bid out of the ACC is a fine season, indeed. Even if a roster is set up to look promising, pretty much everything has to go right for that to translate to a bid. Maybe the NCAAT shouldn't be a hard and fast expectation because so many things have to go just right to make it.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I think our fanbase is too aloof, too analytical, too much "show me more." The refusal to invest has become self-sustaining and habitual. To get the best dividend one has to invest in ground-floor opportunities. I'm in. And even if the market corrects, the losses won't hurt any less if I had been a pessimist.

You nailed it. It’s also why Engineers make bad CEOs.

 

[Rzunz]

Maybe my favorite takeaway from the end of the Clemson game was that we needed a basket, went to our #1 bucket-getter(Devoe), and he came through and got the basket! Wow - we finally have a go-to guy. He has come so far in 2 years!!

 

[Jacket Forever]

Defining standard by which we define a successful season, where we place that bar, is an interesting topic for discussion.

Reaching the NCAAT is a simple, strait-forward standard to set.

I imprinted on the game in the eighties, with GT reaching the NCAAT for 9 strait seasons. To be honest, I grew to assume that GT would be an NCAAT team.

But there have been substantial changes in the arena since then that has significantly raised the bar in terms of reaching the Tournament:

First, there are more eligible teams. There are now 353 eligible programs. There are more conferences and more automatic bids that are only partially compensated by play-in addendums.

Second, and probably most significant is the rise of the Mid-Major programs. There has developed substantial parity in budget and quality of play by Mid-major programs. Gonzaga may be the poster-boy for this movement, but it is only representative of a greater general trend. Mid Major programs can now budget to keep good coaches and the days where the mid-majors were a coaching farm system for the High Majors is a thing of the past.

ACC conference expansion to 15 teams and parity within the ACC is also problematic in terms of getting an NCAAT bid. What we saw this season in conference was a dramatic compression of the standings with teams at the top moving down and teams at the bottom moving up. The records of all 15 teams gravitated toward .500 due to parity,which makes getting an at-large bid out of conference more difficult.

Fourth, the AAU system and the international scene are producing more college ready talent that is being spread more evenly throughout the ranks. We still have a few blue-blood programs that monopolize the Blue Chips, but other than that, there is a lot of jockeying for talent deeper into the ranks.

The result is parity. Quality of play is spreading down the food-chain. there are more programs playing good, competitive basketball.

The present NCAAT field includes less than 20% of eligible teams, and there are more competitive teams. The situation is not like it was in the eighties.

I went back to look at those 9 strait NCAAT bids that Cremins' teams received from 1985-1993. I don't think that three of those nine teams make the NCAAT field today. The 1987 team was 7-7 (5th out of 8) in conference and 16-13 overall. The 1991 team was 6-8 in conference (5th) and 17-13 overall, The 1993 team was 8-8 in conference (6th) and 19-11 overall. That might have been a bubble team. Those were the "glory days"

Using an NCAAT bid as the bar of "acceptable" is pretty tough, statistically speaking. I know that fans of the Blue Blood programs can think that way, but not sure about GT.

I tend to think that Being .500 in conference, winning 20 games and being "bubbly" is a good year. I think under the currently climate, getting an NCAAT bid out of the ACC is a fine season, indeed. Even if a roster is set up to look promising, pretty much everything has to go right for that to translate to a bid. Maybe the NCAAT shouldn't be a hard and fast expectation because so many things have to go just right to make it.

.

This is an excellent and well-thought out post which ought to be required reading by our entire fan base. One additional point. Recruiting and player acquisition is a LOT different than it was in the 80's and 90's. Coaches and programs could get away with recruiting tactics in those days that get you put in the penitentiary these days, especially if you're not UNC, Duke, Louisville, etc. To the contrary if Georgia Tech even THINKS about doing those old school recruiting tactics, we'd probably get the NCAA Death Penalty. Also there was no Transfer Portal in those so-called halcyon days of collegiate basketball. Jackets Forever!

 

[RamblinRed]

I think there are alot of good remarks in these last few posts.
I agree with the idea that next year is one of the most important years for GT basketball in a long time. As mentioned, if we have to start over, it means another rebuild and the kids who are coming of age now have never seen GT in the NCAA tourney.

I agree with DTM that for me it is NCAA or bust for Pastner. He was told he would have five years, next year is year 5. For this year my goal was an NIT team that was a bubble NCAA team. it fell a little short of that. They very likely could have been a NIT team if they didn't accept the ban. But i think ADStan made the right long term decision. I hope it keeps the returning players hungry.

if Jose or Mike get injured the staff and players have to figure out how to stay afloat next year. Those are huge losses, but you have to find a way to overcome them.

I also am not expecting for GT to be in the NCAA tourney for 9 straight seasons. That is unrealistic. I'd be satisfied with 3 out of 5 years. We will never recruit like we did in the 80's and early 90's like Cremins did. the recruiting landscape has changed too much.

At the end of this season i would consider this a good season, not a really good season, not a great season, but a good season. While they were not a bubble team i think the team was playing at a NCAA bubble level. Cuse has correctly mentioned how our schedule has helped us late. I said at the beginning of the year if we could muddle through at .500 until the home game against NCST that the schedule at that point turns favorable for a run. Unfortunately we were 2 games short, we needed to be 10-9, not 8-11.

Next year will be a different team, even with so many returning players. I expect to continue to see the tempo increase on offense. We made a sizable jump in tempo this year, I expect to see that even more next season. None of our guards are super + athletes, but Jose and Mike in particular are really crafty. But are really good at using change of speed and direction to penetrate defenses and create shots. i do not expect us to be as good at rim protection next season, but I expect our defense to still be solid.

I really liked Cuse's remark about cautious optimism. That is where i am. I think the potential is there, but it has to be realized. The ACC is going to be much stronger next season. Most teams are returning the majority of their players after many had little rebuilds this season. For the first time since the end of season 1 with Pastner it feels like there may be a little tailwind. Can the program use it.

I am rooting for Pastner and the players as having a strong season next year is much better for GT than the alternative. I still don't know if Pastner is the long term answer, but after the fall recruiting and next season i suspect we will know.

 

[orientalnc]

I think this incoming recruiting class is the best one in a while. A lot can happen between now and next season. I agree with cautious optimism.

 

[OG-T]

The Banks loss is a meaningful piece that will need to be replaced on and off the court. No surprise he did many pre and post-game pressers. HOWEVER, anything less than NCAA Tourney is grounds for dismissal in my book. We lose Banks, but simply on the fact that Pastner has said an infinite number of times - COLLEGE BASKETBALL IS A GUARDS’ LEAGUE. We have two star guards returning. We have a 3rd guard who gets nearly 30 mins a game. Two will be seniors. We have a returning, promising sophomore guard, and an incoming freshman guard who can get buckets. Pastner has what he constantly repeats is needed. No excuses now.

 

[dtm1997]

 

[slugboy]

Pastner interview on 92.9

@929TheGame: Josh Pastner Takes the Lick From the NCAA for an Easier Future #929TheGame #DukesAndBell #GeorgiaTechBasketball #NCAA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GTFLETCH]

One measure we should use to judge the season and the program is whether or not we improved during the season. This team clearly improved. I really believe we'd beat teams like that easily the way we're playing now.

We shot 40% from the 3 point line against Clemson (6-15). I don't think that number is an anomaly. Consider how bad we've been in the last decade shooting 3's.

I was also very impressed that our zone gave Clemson fits (a team known to shoot 3's).

/

Yes, with Josh Pastner you too can limp to .500 in the worst ACC in a generation, have 0 lifetime wins over UGA, get blown out by 30 to a triple digit RPI Ball State team at home, get similarly housed by Gardner Webb, invite a genuine sociopath into the program who blackmails you over recruiting violations and gets you put on probation with a post season ban, and think it's a good idea to have Jarrett Jack take a one-and-done recruit who is clearly for sale to the highest bidder to The Cheetah and hand them a few hundred dollars in b**** money because WHO COULD POSSIBLY NOTICE THAT AT A HUGELY POPULAR STRIP CLUB, J-TAP-DANCING-C.

The best part about Josh Pastner is he brought Eric Reveno. Eric Reveno appears to genuinely have the Midas Touch with bigs. He can turn water -- provided it's tall enough -- into wine. He was promoted to Assistant Head Coach this year. And while I have low confidence in Pastner being fired this offseason, I have VERY HIGH confidence of him being fired next offseason. But I think the new hire will be told that they already have a bigs coach on staff.

 

[lv20gt]

Yes, with Josh Pastner you too can limp to .500 in the worst ACC in a generation, have 0 lifetime wins over UGA, get blown out by 30 to a triple digit RPI Ball State team at home, get similarly housed by Gardner Webb, invite a genuine sociopath into the program who blackmails you over recruiting violations and gets you put on probation with a post season ban, and think it's a good idea to have Jarrett Jack take a one-and-done recruit who is clearly for sale to the highest bidder to The Cheetah and hand them a few hundred dollars in b**** money because WHO COULD POSSIBLY NOTICE THAT AT A HUGELY POPULAR STRIP CLUB, J-TAP-DANCING-C.

The best part about Josh Pastner is he brought Eric Reveno. Eric Reveno appears to genuinely have the Midas Touch with bigs. He can turn water -- provided it's tall enough -- into wine. He was promoted to Assistant Head Coach this year. And while I have low confidence in Pastner being fired this offseason, I have VERY HIGH confidence of him being fired next offseason. But I think the new hire will be told that they already have a bigs coach on staff.

I'm surprise you remember to breathe every day.

 

[orientalnc]

Yes, with Josh Pastner you too can limp to .500 in the worst ACC in a generation, have 0 lifetime wins over UGA, get blown out by 30 to a triple digit RPI Ball State team at home, get similarly housed by Gardner Webb, invite a genuine sociopath into the program who blackmails you over recruiting violations and gets you put on probation with a post season ban, and think it's a good idea to have Jarrett Jack take a one-and-done recruit who is clearly for sale to the highest bidder to The Cheetah and hand them a few hundred dollars in b**** money because WHO COULD POSSIBLY NOTICE THAT AT A HUGELY POPULAR STRIP CLUB, J-TAP-DANCING-C.

The best part about Josh Pastner is he brought Eric Reveno. Eric Reveno appears to genuinely have the Midas Touch with bigs. He can turn water -- provided it's tall enough -- into wine. He was promoted to Assistant Head Coach this year. And while I have low confidence in Pastner being fired this offseason, I have VERY HIGH confidence of him being fired next offseason. But I think the new hire will be told that they already have a bigs coach on staff.

I don't need this negativity.

 

[Connell62]

I don't need this negativity.

I put this clown on ignore months ago. Do yourself a favor and do the same.

He's clueless and only comes on here to flame. Best conference in record in 17 years and this is what he post...LOL

 

[Jacket Forever]

I basically trust TStan to make a quality decision on Pastner's future with Georgia Tech at the end of next season. Some folks already pre-suppose the coach's dismissal. Me? I don't because of the next logical step in the process: finding a GOOD REPLACEMENT. We've not had the easiest of tasks these last two hires --Gregory and Pastner. CJP was about the tenth person considered as I understand it because no one else wanted the job. I'm not sure that unless 2020-2021 is a total wipeout we want to let him go unless and until we can identify and hire someone who can GUARANTEE double digit ACC wins. Of course, no one can do this and I, for one, have no interest in going through another rebuild. Firing a coach is easy. Finding a GOOD REPLACEMENT can be HARD. I remind the reader of that foolishness going on at uga. Mark Fox must be laughing hard.