Spring Position Battle - Center

33jacket

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tired of listening to our coaches rave about their players. I can't recall one panning out.

either our scouting sucks or we have terrible luck.

Finch was good, not great. Bedford was better.
Vad was light years right? Eh...ok...probably not a good fit
our best WR is being RS'd ...who did they say that about...and where is he?
Chamberlain...remember how high the coaches were on him in fall...oops
i used to post the articles post season of the coaches quots about our DL...guys like Barnes and Logan Walls...not even close on the field
louis young..paul said this season he is going to break out...oops

again, our coaches are either just the biggest fans ever, or suck at evaluation.

I just think that our talent on both sides of the ball is just ok, and it makes guys look better than they are in practices....since you are repping against other ok players.
 

Techster

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I just think that our talent on both sides of the ball is just ok, and it makes guys look better than they are in practices....since you are repping against other ok players.

That's one of the reasons I shake my head when people make some of our players legends during the Spring. I remember how big of a deal everyone made of JT making the reserve defense look silly. There were tons of threads across several GT boards about how JT would eventually take the starting job over Vad during the 2013 season because he was making hay against our reserves. What people forgot was when he did take snaps against our first team D, he wasn't making the same kinds of plays he was making against our backups. As we saw in 2013, we have to be careful of reading too much into what some of our guys do against our backups.

The fact is, we're not a deep team so it's hard to gauge the true impact someone may have until they actually lace it up against other teams.
 

vamosjackets

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O'Reilly has played guard almost all of his career. Last season was his first at center...and while he was rough around the edges, you could see why he was rated one of the top interior linemen in the country during his senior year in HS. He was woefully out of shape during the spring, in fact, the coaches singled him out and punished him in front of the crowd because he didn't play up to his talent. Even though he was woefully out of shape during the spring, he was still one of the most athletic and mobile offensive linemen we've had. His ability to get to the second level, and the ability to get in front of the ball carrier after the snap is a sight to behold. He did that at guard...so that means he has only played center since last fall. O'Reilly's problem is consistency and concentration. He'll flash on one play, and follow it up with a mystifying play. He just needs more reps at center and not lose focus. Outside of being the QB's blindside blocker at tackle, center is the next most difficult position on the line. It's certainly the most cerebral on offense. You're not going to put a guy there for 6 months and expect him to be a world beater.

I've heard so much about how coaches raved about this player or that player in the past that I now have a wait and see approach. A lot of the guys we've heard the coaches rave about end up not living up to expectations (David Sims when he was at QB, Michael Summers...though he's still young, Vad...anyone remember him?, Trey Braun). How many times have we counted our chickens before they've hatched based on coach's word? I think we can fill an entire page of threads of the guys we've destined for greatness before they actually played a decent amount of snaps. Like I said in a previous thread, if Burden is better than O'Reilly, then he's going to be very special. In fact, I thought Muns was one of the biggest surprises on the OL during last spring, so if Burden takes the spot from O'Reilly, I wouldn't be surprised to see O'Reilly get moved around the line a bit to take advantage of this skillset.
I hope you're right, but I find it hard to believe. Did you witness O'Reilly's amazing ability first hand? One thing I'm not buying from yours and 33J's argument here is that you dismiss a guy like Burden because you can't believe the glowing reports about him on the internet, and yet you're pumping up a guy like O'Reilly with your own glowing report on the internet.

That said, I really do hope you're right.
 

vamosjackets

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tired of listening to our coaches rave about their players. I can't recall one panning out.

either our scouting sucks or we have terrible luck.

Finch was good, not great. Bedford was better.
Vad was light years right? Eh...ok...probably not a good fit
our best WR is being RS'd ...who did they say that about...and where is he?
Chamberlain...remember how high the coaches were on him in fall...oops
i used to post the articles post season of the coaches quots about our DL...guys like Barnes and Logan Walls...not even close on the field
louis young..paul said this season he is going to break out...oops

again, our coaches are either just the biggest fans ever, or suck at evaluation.

I just think that our talent on both sides of the ball is just ok, and it makes guys look better than they are in practices....since you are repping against other ok players.
Finch and Braun's positive reports were accurate in my opinion. And, I disagree about Bedford being better. He was an effort warrior and found a lot of success that way, but I saw Bedford get physically beaten in some cases more than I ever saw Finch get beat in that way. Vad's reports were accurate too, imo - he really did have the talent they talked about, that wasn't his issue. Chamberlain did seem to play much different than his reports. Our DL guys weren't the problem imo, Groh's scheme was the problem. We just got MUCH better production from pretty much the same level of player on the DL with a much better coach and scheme. I don't remember CPJ saying that about Lou Young.
Other guys who got glowing reports before we ever saw it on the field:
Shaq Mason, Julian Burnett, PJ Davis, Jemea Thomas, Attaochu, Smelter, Phillip Wheeler, Vance Walker, Calvin Johnson, Bay Bay Thomas, Jamal Lewis, etc, etc, etc.

Seems to me the reports are kind of like stars - they don't guarantee success on the field, but they seem to increase the chances of it. ie I'd rather hear a glowing report from the coaches/practice observers than not.
 

ATL1

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I hope you're right, but I find it hard to believe. Did you witness O'Reilly's amazing ability first hand? One thing I'm not buying from yours and 33J's argument here is that you dismiss a guy like Burden because you can't believe the glowing reports about him on the internet, and yet you're pumping up a guy like O'Reilly with your own glowing report on the internet.

That said, I really do hope you're right.

Well O'Reilly actually did play so there is actual game film on him. Burden just has internet reports. So I can understand anyone's hesitation on his skills.
 

Techster

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I hope you're right, but I find it hard to believe. Did you witness O'Reilly's amazing ability first hand? One thing I'm not buying from yours and 33J's argument here is that you dismiss a guy like Burden because you can't believe the glowing reports about him on the internet, and yet you're pumping up a guy like O'Reilly with your own glowing report on the internet.

That said, I really do hope you're right.

Yes, I saw him play during the spring when he was at guard (hence my observations of him playing) and in reserve for Finch during the season. I never said he was "amazing"...I just said he had some tools that could make him a very good center. O'Reilly isn't a finished product...especially given that he's only spent half a season at center. The physical tools are there, and as I've pointed out multiple times, what he needs to work on are the mental aspects of the position and just get experience.

I'm not dismissing Burden, in fact I said if Burden does beat out O'Reilly, then Burden will end up being a multi-year All ACC performer. I've never seen him play...no one has. All I'm saying is I've heard our coaches say one too many times "so and so is going to be a really good player" and never saw it on the field. Excuse me if I don't eat up every word the coaches say as gospel. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...
 

33jacket

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I hope you're right, but I find it hard to believe. Did you witness O'Reilly's amazing ability first hand? One thing I'm not buying from yours and 33J's argument here is that you dismiss a guy like Burden because you can't believe the glowing reports about him on the internet, and yet you're pumping up a guy like O'Reilly with your own glowing report on the internet.

That said, I really do hope you're right.
Never pumped up anyone.

And the scheme topic. Well our coaches were glowingabout barnes and walls in that scheme not the 4-3. So if was the wrong scheme they should have seen its impact and obviously didnt. The ajc articles bragging on these guys were in grohs tenure.

Just have to agree to disagree about bedford. Go watch him handle brandon thompson. Finch also got blown up alot u just forget. Go watch the maryland dt eat finches lunch 2 years ago when we played md at home. Or the wake forest dt on the road. Those just off the top of my head. For a while he was a weakness establishing the dive.

And i can confirm i am probably full of crap too lol
 

alaguy

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This position is CRUCIAL for the OFF to be capable. A new QB and a new Ctr is a bad combo for success.If we have a bunch of fumbled snaps in spg, not a good sign.

But if one Ctr steps out ,we may be set for a while.
 

jayparr

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This position is CRUCIAL for the OFF to be capable. A new QB and a new Ctr is a bad combo for success.If we have a bunch of fumbled snaps in spg, not a good sign.

But if one Ctr steps out ,we may be set for a while.
great ending!!
 

alaguy

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tired of listening to our coaches rave about their players. I can't recall one panning out.

either our scouting sucks or we have terrible luck.

Finch was good, not great. Bedford was better.
Vad was light years right? Eh...ok...probably not a good fit
our best WR is being RS'd ...who did they say that about...and where is he?
Chamberlain...remember how high the coaches were on him in fall...oops
i used to post the articles post season of the coaches quots about our DL...guys like Barnes and Logan Walls...not even close on the field
louis young..paul said this season he is going to break out...oops

again, our coaches are either just the biggest fans ever, or suck at evaluation.

I just think that our talent on both sides of the ball is just ok, and it makes guys look better than they are in practices....since you are repping against other ok players.

yep,I think you are on to something
"we think our children are better" syndrome-
After several bomb-outs and our recruiting classes being ranked 50th and higher ,the safe assumption is that our recruited talent level is not so good,even though lots of folks want to believe differently--
- hard to ignore examples-our BEST rb was a walk-on, our BEST wr was a 'walk-over''from another sport, we had a starter at WR that didn't make a SINGLE catch , our FIRST unit QB quits more for non-compatability with Off---you can't make this stuff up,nobody would believe you
 

dressedcheeseside

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yep,I think you are on to something
"we think our children are better" syndrome-
After several bomb-outs and our recruiting classes being ranked 50th and higher ,the safe assumption is that our recruited talent level is not so good,even though lots of folks want to believe differently--
- hard to ignore examples-our BEST rb was a walk-on, our BEST wr was a 'walk-over''from another sport, we had a starter at WR that didn't make a SINGLE catch , our FIRST unit QB quits more for non-compatability with Off---you can't make this stuff up,nobody would believe you
This has nothing to do with the new class. There is no college based evidence to suggest how good or bad this class is yet, service ratings mean squat. Only time will tell. Past success or failure is irrelevant.
 

alaguy

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This has nothing to do with the new class. There is no college based evidence to suggest how good or bad this class is yet, service ratings mean squat. Only time will tell. Past success or failure is irrelevant.

AGAIN,cheese. you have diverted the discussion
who said anything about THIS class
this class AMONG the others has not been highly rated but we think much better of them than the general ranking group I feel sure-that is the point
 

dressedcheeseside

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AGAIN,cheese. you have diverted the discussion
who said anything about THIS class
this class AMONG the others has not been highly rated but we think much better of them than the general ranking group I feel sure-that is the point
Then let my comments stand on any current player that hasn't had a chance on the field yet. You jump to the conclusion that they'll stink:

"After several bomb-outs and our recruiting classes being ranked 50th and higher ,the safe assumption is that our recruited talent level is not so good,even though lots of folks want to believe differently--"

My point is not to make any assumptions, period. Let's wait and see and then decide. Teams like us make it against the factories by betting on the dark horse. (in recruiting) Why? Because we can't typically get the favored. Yes, many of our "dark horses" have faltered, but that's to be expected or they wouldn't be dark horses to begin with. We have to hope/believe that the ones we have coming on line now are gonna get the job done. If we feel otherwise, it's a pretty dismal prospect being a GT fan.
 

jayparr

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Then let my comments stand on any current player that hasn't had a chance on the field yet. You jump to the conclusion that they'll stink:

"After several bomb-outs and our recruiting classes being ranked 50th and higher ,the safe assumption is that our recruited talent level is not so good,even though lots of folks want to believe differently--"

My point is not to make any assumptions, period. Let's wait and see and then decide. Teams like us make it against the factories by betting on the dark horse. (in recruiting) Why? Because we can't typically get the favored. Yes, many of our "dark horses" have faltered, but that's to be expected or they wouldn't be dark horses to begin with. We have to hope/believe that the ones we have coming on line now are gonna get the job done. If we feel otherwise, it's a pretty dismal prospect being a GT fan.
GREAT POST!!
 

PowderSpringsJacket88

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I am with Eric on the position winner for this one with Burden. Burden was scout team player of the year and has been a hard worker. Coaches have talked him up a lot which is all I can lean on right now. However, O'Reilly has good potential as well. If O'Reilly gets in better shape and keeps after it then this could be a battle that goes on for awhile.

I feel good about having both of these guys. Also, if one gets hurt then I feel comfortable with Andrew Marshall. Kid is so fundamental playing this position and fires off really well. He needs to get bigger though.

Still the future of this position looks good.
 
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