So 8-4 is good enough ???

Discussion in 'Georgia Tech Football' started by ATL1, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. ATL1

    ATL1 Helluva Engineer

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    http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/jeff-schultz/2013/oct/26/short-takes-georgia-tech/

    I predicted 9-3 before the season but quickly adjusted to 7-5 after watching the VT game. Going 8-4 would mean a win over Clemson or Georgia and a better bowl. That would be a record of 6-7, 8-5, 7-7, & (9-4 or 8-5) in the past four years. Now I'm no fan of the offense, but if Tech can beat either Clemson or Georgia (especially Georgia) then I'm happy. Go 0-2 and .........
     
  2. ramblinvak

    ramblinvak Helluva Engineer

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    I'm not going to sell this team short even if it is GT. If 9-3 is still on the table that's what I'm going to hope for. This team definitely has the capabilities to do that if they play focused, sound football!
     
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  3. OldJacketFan

    OldJacketFan Helluva Engineer

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    I, for one, would be good with an 8-4 record going into the bowl season. One it would include a win over Clemson or Ga and two, a successful 2nd half of the season. Add a bowl win in for 9 and the foundation for 2014 is set. If Tech could pull the double with Clemson and GA along with a bowl win then you've a team showing well on the national scene, 10 wins and a boatload of momentum going forward. That's something Tech hasn't had in a long time, even after the ACCCG win the talent lost to the NFL added to a mediocre recruiting class really didn't add up the momentum that that win should have.
     
  4. jchens_GT

    jchens_GT Ramblin' Wreck

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    I would be happy with 8-4 for all of the reasons stated above. I came in to the season hoping to see improvement over last year. 8-4 would do it.
     
  5. CuseJacket

    CuseJacket Administrator Staff Member

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    Hey ATL1, honest questions and I'm not aiming to call you out specifically, but you're probably a good person to ask since you started the thread and are pretty consistent in your opinions:
    1) For the last couple of years folks have cited GT's dismal records vs. VT, Miami, and UGA. Does it matter that CPJ has a better record vs. UVA than all coaches in the previous 20-25 years (e.g., he's won twice in Charlottesville)?
    2) Why do people ignore CPJ's success vs. Clemson? I'd say Clemson is as strong as they've ever been in recent memory, leading me to believe CPJ's record is more impressive than just wins/losses.

    To be clear I am neither a CPJ defender nor detractor, but it seems like those balance the discussion. The games vs. VT and Miami are seemingly within reach given the fact that they've mostly been decided in the 4th quarter; GT obviously has to prove it with a win or two. The biggest concern to me is the gap between us and UGA, however like Clemson I think they have elevated their stature in the last 5-10 years (maybe partially due to our own ineptness, but who knows).
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  6. Ramblin Wrecker

    Ramblin Wrecker Ramblin' Wreck

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    Not to jump in, but it seems like you are trying to apply two different metrics with your questions. If' you want to give CPJ extra credit for beating Clemson teams that are stronger than they have been in the past, that's fine. But then you can't just say he's won twice in C'ville without also taking into account the quality of those wahoo teams (which I would argue are not the most competitive they've been in the past 25 years).
     
  7. CuseJacket

    CuseJacket Administrator Staff Member

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    Fair point. Perhaps that even proves the point. I guess what I'm going for is 'why do we only select VT, Miami, and UGA'? It seems like they're chosen simply because CPJ's record alone vs. those teams aids the argument against CPJ.
     
  8. awbuzz

    awbuzz Helluva Engineer

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    When you don't beat a team at least 40% of the time it becomes important... the inverse is true too 9just ask UGA, VT or Miami about GT and if it is a "rivalry".
     
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  9. daBuzz

    daBuzz Helluva Engineer

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    I'm not happy with 8-4 but I honestly think that's undoable. I just see no way that we're going to beat Clemson or UGA. That would mean a 7-5 finish. For $2.4 million per year, that's not getting what you pay for.
     
  10. GTrob21

    GTrob21 Helluva Engineer

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    nope, not happy at all, I wanted atleast 9-3 with a chance to win 10 this year. I thought with our talent, that would be a fair record.

    I really thought we should have won against VT and I thought we had a chance against Miami..
     
  11. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    I don't get the question. Good enuf for what? Personally, I don't think 11-1 is good enuf. We should never be.satisfied with losses. But if the question is at what record do I become a whiny ***** looking for a coaching change, then I'll repeat what I've said before. I'll back CPJ as long as I believe that he's not satisfied with losing and that he's capable and working toward making it a rarity. I don't judge that only on w-l.
     
  12. ToddM

    ToddM Guest

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    It's better than last year and that was the break point for most fans prior to the season, so I am happy with it. But ! It's not just about wins, it's about the program. Despite our record against Miami or Va Tech ( ask them about 2009) or even Georgia I promise none like to play our offense. Ga was complaining last year about it.

    I know Clemson isn't confident when they play us and I dont think Fla. St was/is either.

    Teams that CPJ has regularly beaten, Virginia ( home and away), Duke, North Carolina, Clemson, Boston College and Maryland when we play them. We have started well against Cuse and I expect to against Pitt.

    We have a losing record against Va Tech, Miami and maybe NC State under CPJ.

    The record against conference opposition is very good.

    Would I like better records ? Of course but then again I wouldn't want to be Vandy, Ole Miss, Wake or a lot of other teams.

    To top it off we have the best class since 2008 coming in. Who would you suggest if not CPJ ? And remember we would rebuild everything .
     
  13. gtdrew

    gtdrew Banned

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    First of all, and I mean this with every fiber of my being, ATL1, I have no idea why you're still a "fan." Why don't you go follow a team you enjoy watching more?

    Secondly, this team is getting better. What killed me about Gailey wasn't his record, it was his complacency. In 7 yrs. he never made any attempt to change his approach regarding any aspect of the program he'd been entrusted with. The good ole boy-ism was off the charts during the Gailey era. CPJ wants to win, and seems to be willing to change his approach regarding recruiting/defense/offensive schemes to do so. If we looked exactly the same as last year, I'd be upset, but given that Vad is a sophomore, and that the future appears very bright, I'm willing to give him the time to see it through.

    I suspect 13-0 wouldn't be good enough for you, ATLWaco, if it were an offense you didn't enjoy watching. Because THAT'S what we should be concerned with.
     
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  14. GTonTop88

    GTonTop88 Helluva Engineer

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    I think our perception among the ACC is that we're right behind Miami and on the same level as Va Tech who has a pretty good record. Our record doesn't show how good we are, we have only lost to better teams and have played like crap against them and still had an opportunity to win 2 of the 3. We could be sitting here with only 1 loss, if we played fundemental football we should have only lost to BYU.
     
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  15. vamosjackets

    vamosjackets GT Athlete Featured Member

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    Love this answer.
     
  16. vamosjackets

    vamosjackets GT Athlete Featured Member

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    Disagree about Gailey. He fired the special teams coordinator / recruiting coordinator. He brought in Charles Kelley (who proved to be a darn good coach in many capacities). He took over playcalling, then gave it back up again when he thought Nix was ready. I know people give Nix a hard time, but that proved to be our best year offensively - we led the conference in offense that year and went to the ACCCG. He brought in John Bond as OC - no one really knows how that would've worked out in the long run. He brought in Giff Smith as recruiting coordinator and Geoff Collins as director of player personnel who both proved to be some of the best in the business. Great running game, great defense. His BIG weakness was QB play, and he had just signed 3 of the best QB recruits in a long time, along with the best recruiting class GT has ever had, but never got a chance to coach them. I think GT was headed up under CCG, but the masses got what they wanted ... and now they want something else.

    I'm a CPJ supporter btw. I think he can be very successful here. At a place like GT patience is extra important if you know you've got a talented coach and there aren't weaknesses in the leadership aspect. You've got to give a guy a chance to build it, to figure stuff out, to fix issues, and keep making the recruiting ties.
     
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  17. ATL1

    ATL1 Helluva Engineer

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    This the only board were I'm like the "weird" one, I'm far from being considered extreme on any other board. Anyway I'm not sure how to answer this.
    Do I find beating UVA an accomplishment? This UVA team which is winless in the ACC??
    I guess it come down to expectations and desires.

    1. I desire for Tech to be relevant in the national discussion, consistently winning 10 games or more, and competing for Champions whether ACC or National.
    2. I expect GT to win. Failure is not an option to me. Low recruiting is a failure. 7-5 is a failure.

    UGA and Clemson are traditional rivals they do get emphasis.
    I could careless about my coach trying to win or looking to stir things up whether it be him changing schemes or coaches, the bottom line is the results. Is GT a factor in the national consciousness, are we consistent, is Tech winning ?
     
  18. Bule

    Bule Helluva Engineer

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    I don't understand why you guys keep starting threads like this every week. Why don't you let the season play out and make the decision based on the circumstances at that time. There is a lot of football left to be played and we could lose every game or win every game.

    Since it has been started already I will say this. My expectations are always to win every single game at the beginning of the season. Looking back, it was definitely unreasonable for this season the way it is playing out. We have 2 young quarterbacks that we were depending on to be saviors and a completely new defense. To top it off, we have had a lot of significant injuries this year even though not in some of the higher profile positions.

    Given these circumstances, 7 and 5 is now a reasonable year to me, although I will be far from satisfied. The best point made is that CPJ will be even less satisfied than I am and that is what really matters. 8 or 9 wins and I think this is a very good year and I will be very optimistic for the next few years to come with the young talent we have coming in.
     
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  19. SoCal_GT_Fan

    SoCal_GT_Fan Ramblin' Wreck

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    I think 8-4 is definitely good enough. At least we aren't going in the wrong direction in terms of wins/losses and some other metrics seem to be in the upward trend, namely the following:
    1) Recruiting: Seems to be a lot more excitement with our current recruiting class than what we've gotten previously. Sure we might not have that can't-miss stud prospect like a Lorenzo Carter but its not like those guys come by in droves (or at all). We have some assistants who are becoming better recruiters (i.e. Lamar Owens) or are already landing guys for us (i.e. Michael Pelton). I'm sure Ted Roof will be able to get some prospects as well with his connections in and around Georgia.
    2) Talking about Ted Roof, how about our defense? We don't even have the personnel for a 4-3 defense and we are doing pretty well IMHO. Sure there are miscues out there but even after turning the ball over what 5 times against UVA, we are still able to come out with the win. Also, the defense has been able to clamp down in the second half of most of our games.
    3) Development of our QBs: We have two raw yet talented QBs. One is a RS-Soph and the other is a RS-Fresh. Likely one (or hopefully both) will be able to play better and more efficiently in our current offensive scheme and with more game experience under their belts, we should see better decisions and as a result, better offensive numbers.

    For those who think we should be winning like one of the factory schools, I don't know what to tell ya. For our Elon game, I'm sure we had just as many students in the library as we had in the stadium and no I don't want anyone to check up on that because I'm sure the results will be depressing for many on this site (including myself).
     
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  20. CuseJacket

    CuseJacket Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't think you're extreme. The reason I asked you is because you have an opinion that is not uncommon.

    I won't debate the UVA point this year. But still curious. If we flipped the script the last 4 years with UNC and Miami, would folks have a different opinion? Or would they instead say, "CPJ is 0-4 against VT, UNC, and UGA"? Miami and UNC have been comparably relevant during that time span.

    For the record I'm not satisfied with eking out a bowl game 3 out of 4 years. I would like to see our record improve, and I think it will. I believe there are three teams that are head and shoulders above us with talent (Miami, Clemson, UGA). We will never see talent like those three schools. Despite the talent gap we have been consistently competitive with 2 of the 3. That leaves me optimistic that we are not as far from 8+ win seasons as our on the field results have shown the last couple of years.
     
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