SMU Coach Rhett Lashley on ACC and CFP

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

SMU is tied with Bama with the most wins versus P4 teams with a winning record this year(4). They have the best overall record against such teams (4-1). All of these stats have nuance to them, but this is not insignificant.

Also worth noting that we are tied for second in the country in this stat with 3 wins against P4 teams with a winning record(tied with ND, ugag, USCe and BYU). Key is building us in the right direction. We have a much more favorable schedule next year. *rubs palms together*

 

[UgaBlows]

But, therein lies the problem. The “not wrong” preseason ranking was not based on clairvoyance or solid data. It was based on bias. That same bias gets it wrong year after year and nobody seems to notice. Because it’s the SEC. But the SEC gets an artificial boost. And THAT becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I honestly thought Tennessee would be good this year. And their preseason “ranking” seemed to prove it. Turns out they were middle of the road at best. But they still go into the uga game with a number 7 ranking! Then uga, who was exposed this year as deeply flawed, pounds on Tennessee and it becomes validation for uga being back in the playoff according to one of their famous talking head supporters.

No, I am never going to give pollsters credit for low ranking the ACC in seasons after we dominated the SEC.

I hate to say this and hope like hell that i’m wrong but it seemed to me like uga woke up and started playing at a higher level in the Tenn game, they took control of that game and had their way with UT, and I think that UT has a pretty good team, especially defensively. They did that in the 2nd half of the Bama game too and have looked pretty ordinary until the Tenn game so who knows…

 

[stinger78]

I guess you are looking at a different preseason poll than I am. I saw Clemson, Miami, FSU and Virginia Tech. The SEC still had more in the top 25 and more in the top 10.

I just don’t see how you can’t say the year in and year out bias isn’t to put more SEC teams in preseason rankings.

To be fair, now that the SEC has added Texas and Oklahoma it is inevitable that the SEC dominates preseason rankings. But it didn’t have to be this way in past decades and yet it was. And when the SEC failed to perform according to preseason expectation they were still given the benefit of the doubt for the following season. “Reloading” began to be a term that was used.

But you will forgive me if I don’t respond anymore to this topic. I’m bored with how it comes up again and again without resolution. IIWII.

My issue is there isn’t room for Texas, TAMU, OU, LSU, Alabama, Ole Miss, Auburn, Tennessee, Georgia, and Florida to all go 10-2/9-3 in that conference.

That will eventually take it’s toll of their MTBF.

 

[Root4GT]

BCS... we only complained about it because it only put in 2 teams. The system would be nearly flawless for building a 12 team playoff along with the conference champion auto-bids. We have every ability in the world to take the subjectivity out of it but we refuse to because we think our emotions know more than stats.

I've pounded this drum for years but I've yet to see evidence that one conference is head and shoulders above the rest. Usually 3 really good teams, 3 really bad teams, and the rest are just a toss up. There's no denying that they've won the most National Championships so from a "top team" perspective, they've probably also had the most chance (including a few championship games that were SEC vs SEC).

About to get even more interesting after this weekend after A&M and Ole Miss lose and we hear all about how strong the SEC is when bottom feeders like Florida and Auburn beat potential playoff teams.

The BCS was awful. The metrics were no better than the subjectiveness of a committee. LSU-Alabama playing a repeat of the SEC Championship Game - seriously - that was pure garbage and worse than anything the CFP has done!

 

[bke1984]

As long as a group of people picks and chooses the teams that get a shot the big name schools will keep winning. Conference champs helps a ton this year, but they need to go ahead and move to 16 and out all 9 champs in. If the rhetoric is true that the G5 schools don’t deserve a chance because they don’t play anyone then they will just get obliterated and it won’t matter. And if they win then it disproves the argument anyhow.

 

[Ramble1885]

This. Some fonts are simply SEC homers and buy into the bias no matter what you say….I’m not sayin’ they’re a cult, just sayin’….

I hate the SEC, loathe them. I call them the “USSR of college football.” But they’re far and away the best league in cfb and I feel they’ve earned their reputation.

 

[stinger78]

I hate the SEC, loathe them. I call them the “USSR of college football.” But they’re far and away the best league in cfb and I feel they’ve earned their reputation.

Far and away? Nope.

Don't swallow the Kool Aid.

 

[Root4GT]

Far and away? Nope.

Don't swallow the Kool Aid.

Do you think ND is far and away better than the ACC? ND is 12 and 2 vs the ACC the past 3 years. ND has been good but not great during that time period. They lost to Clemson and Louisville during those 3 years. That hurts the ACC a whole lot!

 

[stinger78]

The records bear out that the SEC is somewhat better many years, much better some years, and worse some years, but not head and shoulders overall. The B1G and P12, of all conferences, might have something to say about it.

Annual Conference vs. Conference Records (2014-2024, except 2020)
2024 (YTD): SEC 10-5, ACC 9-9, B1G 7-9, B12 5-9
2023: P12 10-6, B12 10-9, SEC 12-13, ACC 12-14, B1G 10-12
2022: SEC 17-9, B12 9-9, B1G 9-10, P12 5-8, ACC 10-14
2021: B1G 14-8, SEC 13-10, B12 8-6, ACC 8-13, P12 3-9
2019: SEC 16-8, P12 8-5, B12 7-7, B1G 7-10, ACC 6-14
2018: SEC 13-9, B1G 12-9, B12 8-9, P12 6-7, ACC 7-13
2017: B1G 14-6, B12 8-8, SEC 10-12, P12 7-9, ACC 10-14
2016: ACC 17-9, P12 8-8, B1G 9-11, B12 5-8, SEC 11-14
2015: SEC 14-7, B12 7-7, B1G 12-13, P12 6-8, ACC 9-13
2014: P12 11-4, SEC 11-10, ACC 10-11, B1G 11-13, B12 6-11

Source: https://topdan.com/college-football-conference-records/2014.html

 

[Root4GT]

The records bear out that the SEC is somewhat better many years, much better some years, and worse some years, but not head and shoulders overall. The B1G and P12, of all conferences, might have something to say about it.

Annual Conference vs. Conference Records (2014-2024, except 2020)
2024 (YTD): SEC 10-5, ACC 9-9, B1G 7-9, B12 5-9
2023: P12 10-6, B12 10-9, SEC 12-13, ACC 12-14, B1G 10-12
2022: SEC 17-9, B12 9-9, B1G 9-10, P12 5-8, ACC 10-14
2021: B1G 14-8, SEC 13-10, B12 8-6, ACC 8-13, P12 3-9
2019: SEC 16-8, P12 8-5, B12 7-7, B1G 7-10, ACC 6-14
2018: SEC 13-9, B1G 12-9, B12 8-9, P12 6-7, ACC 7-13
2017: B1G 14-6, B12 8-8, SEC 10-12, P12 7-9, ACC 10-14
2016: ACC 17-9, P12 8-8, B1G 9-11, B12 5-8, SEC 11-14
2015: SEC 14-7, B12 7-7, B1G 12-13, P12 6-8, ACC 9-13
2014: P12 11-4, SEC 11-10, ACC 10-11, B1G 11-13, B12 6-11

Do the real work and look at the top SEC teams and the Top ACC teams. That is all hat matters for this discussion!

 

[bke1984]

Do the real work and look at the top SEC teams and the Top ACC teams. That is all hat matters for this discussion!

Take Alabama out and tell me how it looks. This can be skewed however you want it. While Bama was stock piling championships the second best team often came from somewhere outside the SEC.

 

[Ramble1885]

Far and away? Nope.

Don't swallow the Kool Aid.

from 2006-2013 a SEC team won the natty every year.

do you know how impressive that stat is?

and again I HATE the SEC.

 

[Root4GT]

Take Alabama out and tell me how it looks. This can be skewed however you want it. While Bama was stock piling championships the second best team often came from somewhere outside the SEC.

That was week as the CFP took 4 teams and the BCS took 2 teams. Everybody screamed when the BCS took a repeat of Bama vs LSU and Georgia and Bama played a few times in the CFP!

Actually do the work if you think there is merit to the SEC Top is overrated! The final results the past 15 or so years clearly say they are better at the top of the Conference.

It sucks but it is the sad truth!

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

from 2006-2013 a SEC team won the natty every year.

do you know how impressive that stat is?

and again I HATE the SEC.

Thats like 10 years ago. Football as moved on since then

 

[Root4GT]

Thats like 10 years ago. Football as moved on since then

From 2015 on there were 10 CFPs with 12 SEC teams and 6 SEC Championships by 3 different teams LSU (1), Georgia (2) and Bama (3). Non SEC were Clemson (2), Ohio State (1) and Michigan (1).

So the SEC dominance continues for nearly 20 years! You can argue the Conference as a whole all day but wht matters is the Top of the Conference and the SEC has clearly dominated for the past 2 decades regardless of how much we dislike them!

 

[gte447f]

From 2015 on there were 10 CFPs with 12 SEC teams and 6 SEC Championships by 3 different teams LSU (1), Georgia (2) and Bama (3). Non SEC were Clemson (2), Ohio State (1) and Michigan (1).

So the SEC dominance continues for nearly 20 years! You can argue the Conference as a whole all day but wht matters is the Top of the Conference and the SEC has clearly dominated for the past 2 decades regardless of how much we dislike them!

Root, I agree with you that the top of the SEC has been the best, but I contend that the rest of the conference is nothing special, and it sounds like you agree with that point also. And that really is what the sec bias is all about. It’s the rest of the sec, which is nothing special, but the middling sec teams get credit for the success of the top 2-3 teams, and the top 2-3 teams get credit for beating the middling teams. For example, during the uga vs ole Miss broadcast, the commentators said something to the effect that before they lost to ole Miss, uga had not lost a regular season game to a team other than Alabama in something like 50 games. That’s incredible, but it simply illustrates how dominant uga and Alabama have been. It doesn’t mean jack squat about Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina, auburn, Missouri, etc.

 

[Root4GT]

Root, I agree with you that the top of the SEC has been the best, but I contend that the rest of the conference is nothing special, and it sounds like you agree with that point also. And that really is what the sec bias is all about. It’s the rest of the sec, which is nothing special, but the middling sec teams get credit for the success of the top 2-3 teams, and the top 2-3 teams get credit for beating the middling teams. For example, during the uga vs ole Miss broadcast, the commentators said something to the effect that before they lost to ole Miss, uga had not lost a regular season game to a team other than Alabama in something like 50 games. That’s incredible, but it simply illustrates how dominant uga and Alabama have been. It doesn’t mean jack squat about Florida, Tennessee, South Carolina, auburn, Missouri, etc.

Defining the top is hard. Generally the SEC has had 2 or 3 “elite” teams every year. It’s harder now with giant Conferences. They brought in two traditional Powerful programs in Texas and Oklahoma. Oklahoma is very down but Texas is back to being a top ten team. The SEC elite depth runs to 3-5 teams now which is more than any other conference.

The teams below the top 5 or so are solid to bad.

No other conference has 5 really good teams.

So we are in basic agreement except in my view no one cares about teams past the top tier. Nationally GT is not relevant nor is Kentucky or South Carolina. That’s my point.

 

[stinger78]

from 2006-2013 a SEC team won the natty every year.

do you know how impressive that stat is?

and again I HATE the SEC.

That’s one team per year! Clemson won the natty in 2018, yet the ACC was 7-13 against other conferences - the worst P5 of all. Winning a natty and strength of conference are two entirely different things.

 

[Ramble1885]

That’s one team per year! Clemson won the natty in 2018, yet the ACC was 7-13 against other conferences - the worst P5 of all. Winning a natty and strength of conference are two entirely different things.

fair point I guess... but during that span the SEC had some insane years.

2010: all but one team in the SEC west finished ranked. 2011: Arkansas finished fifth in the nation but THIRD in their division. Some years during that span saw 7+ teams from the SEC finish ranked.

I will say during that time (late 2000's early 2010's) the ACC was pretty strong. Paul had us going in '08-'09. VT was great with Beamer. Miami had that good year with Randy Shannon (09 I think) Ralph was still at Maryland. Dabo was just getting started at Clemson. Jimbo took over at FSU. Tom O'Brien was at State. UNC was good but Butch Davis got them in NCAA trouble. Miss those days very much.

2012 was the season that killed the ACC's football rep. Only Clemson and FSU were worth a damn that season. That coastal division was the start of coastal chaos and arguably the greatest example of it. Not saying the ACC has sucked since then it's just the nation's perception of our league hasn't been the same since.

 

[stinger78]

fair point I guess... but during that span the SEC had some insane years.

2010: all but one team in the SEC west finished ranked. 2011: Arkansas finished fifth in the nation but THIRD in their division. Some years during that span saw 7+ teams from the SEC finish ranked.

I will say during that time (late 2000's early 2010's) the ACC was pretty strong. Paul had us going in '08-'09. VT was great with Beamer. Miami had that good year with Randy Shannon (09 I think) Ralph was still at Maryland. Dabo was just getting started at Clemson. Jimbo took over at FSU. Tom O'Brien was at State. UNC was good but Butch Davis got them in NCAA trouble. Miss those days very much.

2012 was the season that killed the ACC's football rep. Only Clemson and FSU were worth a damn that season. That coastal division was the start of coastal chaos and arguably the greatest example of it. Not saying the ACC has sucked since then it's just the nation's perception of our league hasn't been the same since.

We need to stay away from “rankings” as they are chock full of subjective human bias. Let’s stick to objective data.

I will not, nor will many others, contend that the SEC is not overall the best performing football conference. We do, though, debate the degree of separation and the pro-SEC bias that results.

If you look even at the SEC’s top years, in more cases than not there are other conferences that are not far behind them. Yes, there are occasional years where the SEC is dominant in OOC record. However, there are other years when another conference is dominant. Therefore, I consider that a normal variation between all conferences. IOW, those cancel out over time.

That leaves us with the several years when the SEC is *marginally* better than all others. Thus, that is my considered conclusion. That conclusion, if accurate, militates against the annual preseason, and in-season, bias that is driven by The Narrative. The Narrative being that there is a wide gap between the SEC and all others.