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stinger78

stinger78

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Richard7125 said:
There are many people who argue there's really no difference in recruiting classes of a team that has a bunch of 4 star players and a team that has a bunch of 3 star players. They typically reference the stud 2 and 3 star players that blossom to support their argument.
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Many do. We’ve had guys like Phil Wheeler, Vance Walker, Andrew Gardner, et al who did so and had good careers in the NFL. There are also numerous small college players who had great careers in the NFL as well. I think that represents off the radar and late blooming players, and they are many.

Recognizing a 5* player in a HS field takes no skill at all. There are a lot of misses in the 4* group and there are many 3* who make dynamic college and pro players.
 

Richard7125

Jolly Good Fellow
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466
stinger78 said:
Many do. We’ve had guys like Phil Wheeler, Vance Walker, Andrew Gardner, et al who did so and had good careers in the NFL. There are also numerous small college players who had great careers in the NFL as well. I think that represents off the radar and late blooming players, and they are many.

Recognizing a 5* player in a HS field takes no skill at all. There are a lot of misses in the 4* group and there are many 3* who make dynamic college and pro players.
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I think we're talking past each other. I was referring to people who try to argue that top 10 recruiting classes don't matter and then they reference the Philip Wheelers and Vance Walkers of the world. My point with recruiting is that teams that typically recruit higher rated players, tend to have better records. No one is suggesting 2 star players can't be awesome or kids from small schools can't get drafted or good coaching is also very important.
 
stinger78

stinger78

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Richard7125 said:
I think we're talking past each other. I was referring to people who try to argue that top 10 recruiting classes don't matter and then they reference the Philip Wheelers and Vance Walkers of the world. My point with recruiting is that teams that typically recruit higher rated players, tend to have better records. No one is suggesting 2 star players can't be awesome or kids from small schools can't get drafted or good coaching is also very important.
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Yes, there’s a word for that I can’t find right now. It’s like profoundly stating the obvious.

A bunch of guys comb the HS football fields looking for the easy to spot men among boys and the teams that sign more of them tend to do better.
 

FightWinDrink

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2,377
WreckinGT said:
At least on the NFL part, Kirk Cousins is really testing this theory right now.
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Deshaun Watson probably the best example. They demoted Winston to 3rd string to get the fans to stop calling for him to replace Watson. Only reason he even gets to play is because of Watson’s injury and the Browns have been significantly better since. Watson ranked like 36th in advanced stats as a qb before his injury in a league with 32 starters and the Browns still weren’t going to bench him because they have to justify using 1/4th of their salary cap on 1 guy
 

GT33

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Need to start putting buy out clauses in these NIL deals. We’ll help you get $2M from some **** for brains sec team, but you pay us back the $500k we gave you when you leave. After all we’re the ones with the risk. We took a shot you were going to be good, now everybody knows it you’re worth more. You could have flamed out or got bypassed for somebody else. We could have left you on the bench and you wouldn’t get diddly. That’s worth something.
 

Blue&Gold1034

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134
vamosjackets said:
Getting drafted from a program because of the program itself is the most illogical argument I've ever heard, and is in my top 5 pet peeves. There is ZERO logic to it. In fact, the logic goes the other way. If you're a 5-star player, are you more likely to get drafted from Alabama or GT? Most assuredly not Alabama because you're more likely to be in a room with seven other players of your same ilk on an offense/defense with 10 other starters of your same ilk, and thus you will not stand out as much and won't be the focus as much. IF you're good enough to stand out in either place (Calvin, Gibbs, etc), you will get drafted high from either place. But, you're statistically more likely to stand out and be a focus of the team's development plan and gameplan at a program like GT than one like Alabama.
If you counter this with anything like, "Nuh, uh. Just look at the number of players that get drafted from Alabama vs GT", you will need to go back to school before you're allowed to engage in this conversation.
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It's not an illogical argument if you look at what the draft process really is. Drafting is more about measurables and talent than it is stats. On the talent aspect, if you're a 5 star player you're more likely to get drafted out of Alabama than GT because you're more likely to go to Alabama than GT due to perception that Alabama prepares players for the next level. If you're good enough to stand out at GT you will get drafted, but standing out at Alabama means you also received coaching from individuals that the NFL thinks highly of as compared to a place like GT (at the moment) and you've played against more athletes that will be making their way to the league as well. You're more likely going to play against other players who are going to be in the NFL and if you're able to show out against that talent, it is seen as an indicator that you can do it at the next level. There's a reason why the SEC consistently has the most draft picks out of every conference and that is because the perception that playing in the SEC prepares you to play in the pros. It's all about perception.
 
slugboy

slugboy

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Blue&Gold1034 said:
It's not an illogical argument if you look at what the draft process really is. Drafting is more about measurables and talent than it is stats. On the talent aspect, if you're a 5 star player you're more likely to get drafted out of Alabama than GT because you're more likely to go to Alabama than GT due to perception that Alabama prepares players for the next level. If you're good enough to stand out at GT you will get drafted, but standing out at Alabama means you also received coaching from individuals that the NFL thinks highly of as compared to a place like GT (at the moment) and you've played against more athletes that will be making their way to the league as well. You're more likely going to play against other players who are going to be in the NFL and if you're able to show out against that talent, it is seen as an indicator that you can do it at the next level. There's a reason why the SEC consistently has the most draft picks out of every conference and that is because the perception that playing in the SEC prepares you to play in the pros. It's all about perception.
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When we have had good coaching, we have sent players to the NFL.

It’s as simple as that.
 

Blue&Gold1034

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slugboy said:
When we have had good coaching, we have sent players to the NFL.

It’s as simple as that.
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No ones debating that. It's a question of where are you more likely to get drafted from. During Paul Johnson's 11 years at Tech 19 players were drafted into the NFL. Mark Richt had that same amount of players drafted into the NFL over a 3 year span from 02-04. Many would say, me included, that Johnson was a better coach than Richt, but because Richt was coaching in the SEC for a bigger brand, his players got better looks from scouts and had an easier path the the NFL.
 
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slugboy

slugboy

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Blue&Gold1034 said:
No ones debating that. It's a question of where are you more likely to get drafted from. During Paul Johnson's 11 years at GT 19 players were drafted into the NFL. Mark Richt had that same amount of players drafted into the NFL over a 3 year span from 02-04. Many would say, me included, that Johnson was a better coach than Richt, but because Richt was coaching in the SEC for a bigger brand, his players got better looks from scouts and had an easier path the the NFL.
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He had a lot more 5* and high 4* players. If you traded rosters, you’d flip the results.

Coaching does affect a player’s ability to get into the NFL. But the argument that Marvin Harrison Jr had a better shot from Ohio State vs Miami or Louisville needs some evidence. P4 teams get plenty of visibility
 
bobongo

bobongo

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Blue&Gold1034 said:
It's not an illogical argument if you look at what the draft process really is. Drafting is more about measurables and talent than it is stats. On the talent aspect, if you're a 5 star player you're more likely to get drafted out of Alabama than GT because you're more likely to go to Alabama than GT due to perception that Alabama prepares players for the next level. If you're good enough to stand out at GT you will get drafted, but standing out at Alabama means you also received coaching from individuals that the NFL thinks highly of as compared to a place like GT (at the moment) and you've played against more athletes that will be making their way to the league as well. You're more likely going to play against other players who are going to be in the NFL and if you're able to show out against that talent, it is seen as an indicator that you can do it at the next level. There's a reason why the SEC consistently has the most draft picks out of every conference and that is because the perception that playing in the SEC prepares you to play in the pros. It's all about perception.
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Number one, we have hardly even had any 5-star players at Tech. Alabama has had oodles of them, so of course they're going to get more of them drafted. Because they have more of them.

Number two, as far as the players these players are playing against is concerned, GT's SOS has equaled or exceeded Alabama's most years. And pro scouts know it, I'm sure.
 

Blue&Gold1034

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slugboy said:
He had a lot more 5* and high 4* players. If you traded rosters, you’d flip the results.

Coaching does affect a player’s ability to get into the NFL. But the argument that Marvin Harrison Jr had a better shot from Ohio State vs Miami or Louisville needs some evidence. P4 teams get plenty of visibility
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What percentage of 4 * players that PJ recruited made it to the NFL vs. what percentage of 4* players Richt recruited made it to the NFL? This is a genuine question that Id love to see the numbers on.

The thing is that defensive backs that Marvin Harrison played week to week were seen as better since they were in the Big 10. Him dominating against that competition helped his draft stock tremendously. Not to mention the fact that Ohio State is now considered a WR factory by many scouts. Had he done it against ACC corners, he would have definitely still been drafted, but probably not as high as he was. Look at Tee Higgins who had comparable stats, and won a National Championship, yet was drafted in the second round.
 

Blue&Gold1034

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bobongo said:
Number one, we have hardly even had any 5-star players at Tech. Alabama has had oodles of them, so of course they're going to get more of them drafted. Because they have more of them.

Number two, as far as the players these players are playing against is concerned, GT's SOS has equaled or exceeded Alabama's most years. And pro scouts know it, I'm sure.
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Why are more 5 stars going to Alabama? Money is definitely one part of it, but so is the perception that playing in the tougher conference and getting Alabama coaching will help them go to the pros. Like I said, perception has a lot to do with the whole draft process.

SOS over the last 10 years (based on sports-reference.com)

GT - 23, 19, 38, 18, 52, 48, 58, 26, 27, 50, 19
Bama - 5, 1, 1, 22, 3, 39, 3, 7, 26, 3, 24
 

gorcone

Georgia Tech Fan
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92
GT33 said:
Need to start putting buy out clauses in these NIL deals. We’ll help you get $2M from some **** for brains sec team, but you pay us back the $500k we gave you when you leave. After all we’re the ones with the risk. We took a shot you were going to be good, now everybody knows it you’re worth more. You could have flamed out or got bypassed for somebody else. We could have left you on the bench and you wouldn’t get diddly. That’s worth something.
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I agree with this completely.
 
bobongo

bobongo

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Blue&Gold1034 said:
Why are more 5 stars going to Alabama? Money is definitely one part of it, but so is the perception that playing in the tougher conference and getting Alabama coaching will help them go to the pros. Like I said, perception has a lot to do with the whole draft process.

SOS over the last 10 years (based on sports-reference.com)

GT - 23, 19, 38, 18, 52, 48, 58, 26, 27, 50, 19
Bama - 5, 1, 1, 22, 3, 39, 3, 7, 26, 3, 24
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There are a lot of factors involved with recruiting and why Alabama has recruited far more 5-star players over the years. But I do stand corrected about the SOS. Much of Alabama's SOS being so strong is the fact they're involved in conference championship and playoff games, though, so it's a self-perpetuating loop in that way. More good players = more championship games = better SOS = more good players. Hard to figure, though, with Clemson and Ugag on the schedules all of those years (except this one missing Clemson) along with Notre Dame or another P-5 that our SOS hasn't been better than that.
 
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